Quotatious wrote:BasketballFan7 wrote:I'm aware of those numbers. Like I said, it was an ideal situation for that.
Of course he had a huge impact on winning. He had the ball all of the time and was surrounded by shooters and defenders. Without an elite slasher / creator, that team is likely terrible. But Brons skill set at the time was ideal for that circumstance.
However, 2013 bron was a superior player in a different context. Superior defense, versatility offensively, adaptability, understanding of the game, maturity, etc.
I don't think '13 LeBron was better than '09 as a defender. 2009 LeBron anchored the 3rd best defense in the league (yes, he anchored it, his defensive impact that year is unquestioned, there are numbers to prove it). He had a somewhat subpar series against Orlando in terms of defense, but considering how much he had to do on offense, it's not a big problem.
Offensive versatility, maturity, adaptability etc. are all fair points, but on the other hand, 2009 LeBron was clearly more explosive off the dribble, had higher motor, better stamina, and I doubt the 2013 version would've been able to carry the '09 Cavs like '09 LBJ did.
I think that 2009, 2012 and 2013 all have a good case for LeBron's peak. I prefer '09, but I can see a good case for the other two, as well.
As far as 2009 LeBron putting up incredible numbers against weak competition in the first two rounds - 2013 LeBron did exactly the same, the only difference is that 2009 LBJ did it better. His 2009 playoff run was better from an individual standpoint than his 2013 run. There's a big difference in terms of his supporting cast - Wade/Bosh were so much better than Williams/Ilgauskas (or Varejao), it's not a surprise the '13 Heat won a title, and '09 Cavs did not. IMO 2013 Heat had better role players, more experience and better coach, too. Anyway, let's not act like Miami was that dominant in the final two rounds - they were one game away from elimination against both the Pacers and Spurs.
Also, as far as versatility - if you think that the more versatile player is automatically the better player - do you think that Hakeem is better than Shaq? I'm asking just to check if you're consistent with that approach.
No. Shaq > Hakeem. I do value versatility. I think that scoring versatility is one reason Kobe (although I am not a big fan) has had a lot of his playoff success.
It is that I think Shaq's primary skill was essentially impossible to stop. Even by elite teams. You could know it was coming but have no chance of stopping it. LeBron's slashing was close to that level, but not quite. We have seen it before. If his jump shot wasn't falling, there was a strategy. However, you could convince me that POSTSEASON 2009 LeBron was peak LeBron. During that postseason, his efficiency increased (59 TS% to 62 TS%) despite his volume increasing significantly (19.9 FGA to 22.3 FGA) and him facing better teams. Why is this? Because his jump shot was falling. After 29% from 10-16 and 39% from 16-3P in the RS, he hit 44% and 49% in the PS, respectively. This made him unstoppable. The slashing/finishing is not unstoppable without the ability to shoot. Shaq's ability wasn't dependent on anything else. An elite team can stop LeBron when his jumper is broken. We have seen it. No team, no matter how elite, was going to stop Shaq.
That said, LeBron has ALWAYS had inconsistent form on his jumper. Even had he went on to beat the Magic, that is not to say his jumper would have continued to fall in the finals. This is where versatility comes in. Shaq didn't need it. LeBron did / does. The ability to be better from the post, or to be better from 3, better off ball (although he never mastered this, even to this day), etc. are all important in this regard.
Defensively, he was better in Miami. He was the essential piece on a team that required a ton of defensive activity. He closed the middle of the defense and put pressure on passing lanes. Also more capable of guarding bigs while in Miami, while still capable of guarding a PG when needed.
As for your statement about carrying the Cavs like 09 LeBron, who knows. I don't think it changes things much. If we are going that route, I definitely don't see 09 LeBron doing what 12/13 LeBron did.
I am done with trolls like you.
