Offseason Trade and Free Agency Discussion

[City of Trees]

Bledsoe $13.5 million. For Gay $12.4 million straight up.

No. Bledsoe holds more value than Gay. While Gay does provide some ok stats, its not nearly as good for what he is getting paid. He is seriously overpaid. SERIOUSLY. A Gay salary dump is already helping the Kings enough, and he was thrown into my trade scenario for really only 2 reasons, 1. To help even up the WCS/Bledsoe value, and 2. To make the $$$$ work.

It was also reported pre-draft that the Kings were looking at dumping his salary.

Wojnarowski reported some context in regards to the Gay rumor. I can’t say that it makes any sense whatsoever, but here it is.

Gay signed a three-year, $40 million extension that starts with the 2015-16 season, a contract that has become even more palatable to teams with the sharp rise coming in the NBA salary cap. Gay has played well in his two-plus seasons with the Kings and remains a target of interest with multiple teams, front-office executives said.

Sacramento is motivated to find a way to create more salary-cap space with possible deals, something that the Kings will need to pursue Dallas Mavericks free-agent point guard Rajon Rondo, league sources said. The Kings and Rondo have a mutual interest, with Rondo intrigued with the idea of a potential one-year deal in Sacramento that could help to rebuild his league-wide value, sources said.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/6/23/8831545/report-kings-make-rudy-gay-nik-stauskas-available

SO basically what Woj is saying is that the Kings were/are trying to salary dump Gay to have the capspace to sign Rondo. Here they salary dump Gay AND get a better PG than Rondo AND please their franchise player Cousins in the process.

Yeah, Gay can score pretty well and get a decent amount of rebounds/assists for a SF, but what makes him overpaid the most in my eyes is the fact that he is a bad defender. I mean REALLY BAD. Gay checked in with a -2.46 DRPM, 428th ranked in the league. So basically, you have to make sure there are defenders around him.

Yeah the Kings want to salary dump a top 15 scorer to sign a washed up PG who hasn't been the same for 2 years now? Furthermore, Kings already have roughly $8.5M-$10.5M in cap space (depending on NG's, ect) so how does that not land them Rondo? Logically why would you salary dump your 2nd best player to sign a FA who you already have the cap space to sign??????

Now I think Bledsoe is a great player and the Suns shouldn't just take an offer to take it. Dude can ball. That deal with Landry involved was ridiculous. It will be tough for the Kings/Suns to agree to a Bledsoe deal without a third team. ..... One last thing, Gay at $12.5 is no where near hefty or overpaid. Come on.

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[Sunsss]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/615633812404355073[/tweet]

[thamadkant]

Bled to the Kings would be awful. Their fans are trying to argue how Gay' is not a hefty/contract a bargain for the buck with the upcoming cap expansion and should be good enough as a centerpiece. If not they would replace him with McLemore or Stauskas (lol) and WCS is obviously off limits. They would rather have Rondo on a one year prove it contract so they aren't going to lowball and not budge.

But Gay's contract is NOT hefty for his production though, they have a point there. In the past, yes... he was an albatross contract, but his extension and production and age suggest he is on a fair/nice contract 12.5 million for a 21 ppg 6 rpg 3apg 36% 3PT 45% FG player.


But if Bledsoe is the one player that Cousins wants, they will have to bend eventually and send WCS with Gay. Suns will send Tucker to help them contend.



The IRONY is, the SUNS and KINGS WILL be fighting for a playoff spot in this scenario... hence I think it wont work out.




A 3-team scenario possibly.

Suns / Bucks / Kings

Suns
IN: Parker, Landry, (future pick)
OUT: Bledsoe, Morris, Morris, Tucker
*Why for SUNS? Young potential franchise player in Parker.

Bucks
IN: Gay, Morris, Morris
OUT: Parker, Henson
*Why for BUCKS? Reinforce their playoff-bound young team with players in their prime or entering their prime.

Kings
IN: Bledsoe, Henson, Tucker
OUT: Gay, Landry, WCS, future pick (incentive for a team to take on Landry's contract)
*Why for KINGS? Get Bledsoe/Cousins combo, get defensive players.

[MrMiyagi]

Bled to the Kings would be awful. Their fans are trying to argue how Gay' is not a hefty/contract a bargain for the buck with the upcoming cap expansion and should be good enough as a centerpiece. If not they would replace him with McLemore or Stauskas (lol) and WCS is obviously off limits. They would rather have Rondo on a one year prove it contract so they aren't going to lowball and not budge.

But Gay's contract is NOT hefty for his production though, they have a point there. In the past, yes... he was an albatross contract, but his extension and production and age suggest he is on a fair/nice contract 12.5 million for a 21 ppg 6 rpg 3apg 36% 3PT 45% FG player.


But if Bledsoe is the one player that Cousins wants, they will have to bend eventually and send WCS with Gay. Suns will send Tucker to help them contend.



The IRONY is, the SUNS and KINGS WILL be fighting for a playoff spot in this scenario... hence I think it wont work out.




A 3-team scenario possibly.

Suns / Bucks / Kings

Suns
IN: Parker, Landry, (future pick)
OUT: Bledsoe, Morris, Morris, Tucker
*Why for SUNS? Young potential franchise player in Parker.

Bucks
IN: Gay, Morris, Morris
OUT: Parker, Henson
*Why for BUCKS? Reinforce their playoff-bound young team with players in their prime or entering their prime.

Kings
IN: Bledsoe, Henson, Tucker
OUT: Gay, Landry, WCS, future pick (incentive for a team to take on Landry's contract)
*Why for KINGS? Get Bledsoe/Cousins combo, get defensive players.

We aren't getting Parker.

[Sunsdeuce]

I got it some people say Gay is a stat stuffer. To counter that point, bledsoe can't be called a stat stuffer too.

Bledsoe and gay have a lot in common. But the main thing is Both fail to make their teammates better. Especially bledsoe who was "suppose" to be the leader.

[saintEscaton]

Bled to the Kings would be awful. Their fans are trying to argue how Gay' is not a hefty/contract a bargain for the buck with the upcoming cap expansion and should be good enough as a centerpiece. If not they would replace him with McLemore or Stauskas (lol) and WCS is obviously off limits. They would rather have Rondo on a one year prove it contract so they aren't going to lowball and not budge.

But Gay's contract is NOT hefty for his production though, they have a point there. In the past, yes... he was an albatross contract, but his extension and production and age suggest he is on a fair/nice contract 12.5 million for a 21 ppg 6 rpg 3apg 36% 3PT 45% FG player.


But if Bledsoe is the one player that Cousins wants, they will have to bend eventually and send WCS with Gay. Suns will send Tucker to help them contend.



The IRONY is, the SUNS and KINGS WILL be fighting for a playoff spot in this scenario... hence I think it wont work out.




A 3-team scenario possibly.

Suns / Bucks / Kings

Suns
IN: Parker, Landry, (future pick)
OUT: Bledsoe, Morris, Morris, Tucker
*Why for SUNS? Young potential franchise player in Parker.

Bucks
IN: Gay, Morris, Morris
OUT: Parker, Henson
*Why for BUCKS? Reinforce their playoff-bound young team with players in their prime or entering their prime.

Kings
IN: Bledsoe, Henson, Tucker
OUT: Gay, Landry, WCS, future pick (incentive for a team to take on Landry's contract)
*Why for KINGS? Get Bledsoe/Cousins combo, get defensive players.

Why on earth would the Bucks even considering dealing Parker? And for scrubs like the Morrii and overrated/ older version of Derozan? I prefer staying put until the market sorts its self out and we can gauge actual interest

[thamadkant]

Because Parker tore his ACL last year, the Bucks may want to maximise his value based on his potential.
Besides they have Giannis who looks like he needs to be the SF to maximise his potential.

And most importantly of all, I want the Morris out and I really like Parker

[Minoru79]

Anyone into the idea of the Suns taking a flier on Bismack Biyombo? I mean he's probably never going to improve his terrible hands and offense, but he's still just 22.

[Kerrsed]

Report: Kings look to form 'Kentucky West' with trade for Eric Bledsoe

Sporting News reports that the Suns are still looking to trade Eric Bledsoe after exploring deals before the draft but are finding it difficult based on Bledsoe's health and a "coachability" question. A separate report Sunday night indicated that the Suns were looking to trade the explosive young point guard.

Sporting News reported last week that the Suns had been shopping Bledsoe. But trading Bledsoe, according to league sources, will not prove to be easy for Phoenix. “There was a reason,” one general manager told SN, “that no one wanted to give him that [$70 million] contract last year. I think you still have to worry about his health. I think you worry about how coachable he is, too.”

The Kings, one source said, are expected to express interest in Bledsoe. While Sacramento has been buried in rumors involving center DeMarcus Cousins, a league executive said the Kings have been far more focused on improving the point guard position. The Kings started Darren Collison at the position, but would like to move him into a backup role. And if Sacramento keeps Cousins, bringing in his former Kentucky teammate and good friend surely would help to keep him happy.

Let's try and unpack this a bit to make some sense of it.

First, there's an awful lot of smoke here for there to be no fire. However, both reports about possible discussions on trades have come from outside the Suns. It's "league sources" which usually indicates that there are people talking about it. The feeling is that teams have the sense -- or are trying to present the sense -- that the Suns want to move Bledsoe. Phoenix on the other hand, has been adamant, downright emphatic that this isn't the case:

"'Eric Bledsoe is still a young player, in his mid-20s,' McDonough said. 'He's gotten better every year he's been in the NBA. ... It would take a whole lot for us to move Eric Bledsoe, and that's something we haven't even considered. It hasn't been discussed.'"

So either the Suns aren't trying to move Bledsoe and teams are just doing this to screw with them, McDonough's lying (which is not exactly an unprecedented move for a sports GM) or the most likely scenario: it's somewhere in a gray area in between the two worlds. In that scenario McDonough or one of his assistants has called around for standard trade talks, teams have suggested a Bledsoe swap, and been surprised at the Suns' reaction not being "absolutely, no, under no circumstances." There's just no way to know exactly what game is being played out here, but you shouldn't rule any possibility out.

On top of that, having multiple reports inside of a week that the Suns are looking at trading Bledsoe would indicate that this is an ongoing situation and not an isolated event. Something to keep an eye on.

Bledsoe would be great in Sacramento, which at that point with DeMarcus Cousins, Bledsoe and newly-drafted Willie Trill Cauley-Stein would form "Kentucky West." Bledsoe is an explosive, versatile guard who's improved his shooting. The coachability question is one that follows nearly every fiery point guard. Kyle Lowry's a great example of how that doesn't have to hinder a player's career and is mostly about fit. The injury questions are a bit more significant. Bledsoe had part of his meniscus removed in 2014. The partial removal has become the de facto treatment for meniscus tears, which involve shorter recovery times and fewer long-term effects than the outright removal of the meniscus. Still, having the meniscus surgery just a year after suffering an ACL tear does come with some concerns for his long-term health.

Yet we're seeing more and more knee injuries not affect players as often. There are outliers (Brandon Roy for example) but generally speaking players are able to recover, strengthen and compensate for the injury. Even as Bledsoe's explosiveness tails off at the end of his current five-year contract, his skillset will expand to compensate. There's every reason to think he can continue to be productive.

The Suns may not be looking to move Bledsoe. They shouldn't, not with the good thing they have going with him and fellow free agent Brandon Knight. But that's a lot of money tied up in the backcourt, and they seem intent on choosing Knight if it comes to that. If they are looking, he'd fit well in Sacramento, as an aggressive scorer who George Karl would adore for his ability to get up and down the floor. Bledsoe could help make Cousins happy, could help make Karl happy, could put together a team that seems so broken right now.

One problem: the Kings don't have anything they can really move him for. A first-round pick in the future might be worth it to get Bledsoe, but you'd have to pair that with Ben McLemore and other components. The Kings just don't have a lot of talent, and certainly nothing to make up for what Bledsoe brings. Offering multiple first-rounders would lead to mortgaging too much of the future.

It's a tough situation for both sides, which makes you think the most likely scenario is no deal and that Bledsoe stays in Phoenix. We'll keep you updated on the Bledsoe front.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25228401/kings-reportedly-look-to-form-kentucky-west-with-trade-for-eric-bledsoe

Kings dont have anything they can move for him? WCS instead of a future pick would be the start!

[jcsunsfan]

All that to say a deal is not likely? Good grief.

[Kerrsed]

Yeah the Kings want to salary dump a top 15 scorer to sign a washed up PG who hasn't been the same for 2 years now? Furthermore, Kings already have roughly $8.5M-$10.5M in cap space (depending on NG's, ect) so how does that not land them Rondo? Logically why would you salary dump your 2nd best player to sign a FA who you already have the cap space to sign??????

Now I think Bledsoe is a great player and the Suns shouldn't just take an offer to take it. Dude can ball. That deal with Landry involved was ridiculous. It will be tough for the Kings/Suns to agree to a Bledsoe deal without a third team. ..... One last thing, Gay at $12.5 is no where near hefty or overpaid. Come on.

Maybe because Gay is an "Empty Stats" player and every team he has played on has gotten BETTER the season after they traded him.

And i dont mean to clown the Kings, but besides Cousins, who else is there to score? 20 PPG is cool when your on the Kings.

Bledsoe gives you guys a legit 18/6/5 player (Kinda what fan favorite IT gave you), with 2 major exceptions, he can actually defend PGs/SGs pretty damn well, and he is Bro's with your disgruntled superstar.

If you had to lose Gay or Cousins, who would you rather it be? Cousins doesnt sound too happy being in Sac right now, going as far as asking the FO to explore trades. If you could sacrifice Gay to get Bledsoe and keep cousins happy, would you?

And dont get it twisted, take a poll of Suns fans and a good 80.7% of them would not want Gay on this team. We have had enough of players that play turnstile defense. His $13M could be better used on obtaining players elsewhere.

[jcsunsfan]

Charlotte just declined to make a QO for Bismack Biyombo. He is an athletic young big who has shown some promise. He is at an age where he might just break out. If Wright leaves, he might be a good cheap replacement.

[Revived]

Isn't it funny how the Lakers who everyone thought had no assets like 12 months ago and the Suns who were apparently loaded with assets have switched places?

The Lakers are now in talks with the Kings to acquire a top 3 big man in the NBA while the Suns haven't been linked to Cousins in any shape or form.

So I guess the Lakers assets are worth more than the Suns assets?

Its gonna be disgusting to see the Lakers rebuild or retool much faster than the Suns.

[saintEscaton]

Isn't it funny how the Lakers who everyone thought had no assets like 12 months ago and the Suns who were apparently loaded with assets have switched places?

The Lakers are now in talks with the Kings to acquire a top 3 big man in the NBA while the Suns haven't been linked to Cousins in any shape or form.

So I guess the Lakers assets are worth more than the Suns assets?

Its gonna be disgusting to see the Lakers rebuild or retool much faster than the Suns.

If these reports are true than I can see the Kings jumping all over D'Angelo Russel if the Lakers are willing to give him up to make a splash. Ranadive has finally accepted the reality of the situation and sidelined Vlade by allowed Cousins's agent to begin negotiating a trade with LAL. So it could already be in the works. This probably means that assuming Love stays in Cleveland LMA will be the only premiere PF on the market and he seems Texas bound. Lol LMA is open to signing with Toronto but not us. And Monroe is likely headed to the Knicks. Yeah we have no shot at upgrading through FA

[Sunsdeuce]

RIP Jackson vroman.

[Kerrsed]

RIP Jackson vroman.

A true Scottdale legend! He will be missed!

[thamadkant]

Isn't it funny how the Lakers who everyone thought had no assets like 12 months ago and the Suns who were apparently loaded with assets have switched places?

The Lakers are now in talks with the Kings to acquire a top 3 big man in the NBA while the Suns haven't been linked to Cousins in any shape or form.

So I guess the Lakers assets are worth more than the Suns assets?

Its gonna be disgusting to see the Lakers rebuild or retool much faster than the Suns.

If these reports are true than I can see the Kings jumping all over D'Angelo Russel if the Lakers are willing to give him up to make a splash. Ranadive has finally accepted the reality of the situation and sidelined Vlade by allowed Cousins's agent to begin negotiating a trade with LAL. So it could already be in the works. This probably means that assuming Love stays in Cleveland LMA will be the only premiere PF on the market and he seems Texas bound. Lol LMA is open to signing with Toronto but not us. And Monroe is likely headed to the Knicks. Yeah we have no shot at upgrading through FA

Some of us called this a couple of years ago, although we did get our hopes up last off season when Suns wanted Lebron and Melo.
But thinking OUTSIDE the Suns, other teams simply are more appealing.

I recall the "Tankers" vs "anti-tankers" debate of 2 seasons ago... the notion was that the Suns always got their star through trades... YEAH sure, if you have the assets and if the competing teams (for trade) dont have assets... but high picks are always worth a heck of a lot more than middle picks and "so so players".

In any case, as I've mentioned many times along some here, I am not opposed to letting a very young starting 5 play heavy minutes. Let them develop ASAP. If they WIN... so be it, well done, there is HOPE. They LOSE?... so be it, they get experience + Suns get GREAT draft pick assets. I'm not the oldest Suns fan here, far from it, but the way things are, "con-building" is making me think I wont be able to see the Suns win a championship for a decade or more. Thats just so depressing lol.

If Suns strike out in FA.... I say keep all the players under 23-24 and have them play as much as possible. I kinda get what McD is doing though... he is holding on to the youth, but at the same time hoping/wishing to add that 25-26 year old star to form a playoff team with the other 25-26 year old players on the Suns.... but if that "star" never gets signed, the team simply keeps repeating the 9th,10th,11th finish... the youth dont develop much... and all of a sudden the "good" veterans are on their primes and the team are stuck in a treadmill situation.... McD is HEAVILY relying on that "star" player. I get it, he is gambling and taking a calculated risk.

HENCE, I think Bledsoe is indeed on the block... its year 3 for McD and he is a smart man who has a projected schedule..

[City of Trees]

Yeah the Kings want to salary dump a top 15 scorer to sign a washed up PG who hasn't been the same for 2 years now? Furthermore, Kings already have roughly $8.5M-$10.5M in cap space (depending on NG's, ect) so how does that not land them Rondo? Logically why would you salary dump your 2nd best player to sign a FA who you already have the cap space to sign??????

Now I think Bledsoe is a great player and the Suns shouldn't just take an offer to take it. Dude can ball. That deal with Landry involved was ridiculous. It will be tough for the Kings/Suns to agree to a Bledsoe deal without a third team. ..... One last thing, Gay at $12.5 is no where near hefty or overpaid. Come on.

Maybe because Gay is an "Empty Stats" player and every team he has played on has gotten BETTER the season after they traded him.

And i dont mean to clown the Kings, but besides Cousins, who else is there to score? 20 PPG is cool when your on the Kings.

Bledsoe gives you guys a legit 18/6/5 player (Kinda what fan favorite IT gave you), with 2 major exceptions, he can actually defend PGs/SGs pretty damn well, and he is Bro's with your disgruntled superstar.

If you had to lose Gay or Cousins, who would you rather it be? Cousins doesnt sound too happy being in Sac right now, going as far as asking the FO to explore trades. If you could sacrifice Gay to get Bledsoe and keep cousins happy, would you?

And dont get it twisted, take a poll of Suns fans and a good 80.7% of them would not want Gay on this team. We have had enough of players that play turnstile defense. His $13M could be better used on obtaining players elsewhere.

See this whole "empty stat stuffer" label we give players on losing teams can be too convenient at times... Its an excuse we use to discredit a players accomplishments, because well winning is everything. If you looked at Gay's career he was apart of the Grizzles rise to the playoffs. His stats during his time in MEM is very comparable to his time in Tor and Sac. Gay being apart of a playoff team in MEM shows he's more than just an empty stat stuffer..... Saying that every team he was traded from got better isnt entirely accurate. The Gizzlies made the playoffs two years in a row with Gay, having made it to the conf semis. by beating San Antonio.

So are you really going to categorize Gay as an empty stat stuffer in MEM when he was apart of their winning core?

Thats like holding it against Bledsoe if you guys trade him only to see Len improve to a top 5 Center and Knight becomes an All-Star.. That's not on Bledsoe, just like MEM improvement isn't ALL on the subtraction of Gay.


Toronto getting better? They play in a weak East conf. and we are seeing they wanna blow it up already so I don't think the "improvement" you referenced was actual improvement.



Perception around the league of Gay has been poor ever since MEM signed him to a franchise guy contract.... Gay isn't a franchise guy, he's your #2, your Batman's Robin. With his new contract on Par with his actual production there really is no need to bash the guy any longer. If you want to trade for Gay you must understand he is your second option on offense, and an OK defender when he wants to be.

Edited

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[JMac1]

Yeah the Kings want to salary dump a top 15 scorer to sign a washed up PG who hasn't been the same for 2 years now? Furthermore, Kings already have roughly $8.5M-$10.5M in cap space (depending on NG's, ect) so how does that not land them Rondo? Logically why would you salary dump your 2nd best player to sign a FA who you already have the cap space to sign??????

Now I think Bledsoe is a great player and the Suns shouldn't just take an offer to take it. Dude can ball. That deal with Landry involved was ridiculous. It will be tough for the Kings/Suns to agree to a Bledsoe deal without a third team. ..... One last thing, Gay at $12.5 is no where near hefty or overpaid. Come on.

Maybe because Gay is an "Empty Stats" player and every team he has played on has gotten BETTER the season after they traded him.

And i dont mean to clown the Kings, but besides Cousins, who else is there to score? 20 PPG is cool when your on the Kings.

Bledsoe gives you guys a legit 18/6/5 player (Kinda what fan favorite IT gave you), with 2 major exceptions, he can actually defend PGs/SGs pretty damn well, and he is Bro's with your disgruntled superstar.

If you had to lose Gay or Cousins, who would you rather it be? Cousins doesnt sound too happy being in Sac right now, going as far as asking the FO to explore trades. If you could sacrifice Gay to get Bledsoe and keep cousins happy, would you?

And dont get it twisted, take a poll of Suns fans and a good 80.7% of them would not want Gay on this team. We have had enough of players that play turnstile defense. His $13M could be better used on obtaining players elsewhere.

You mean actually 19.3 percent of Suns' fans want Gay ...Why?

[bwgood77]

Isn't it funny how the Lakers who everyone thought had no assets like 12 months ago and the Suns who were apparently loaded with assets have switched places?

The Lakers are now in talks with the Kings to acquire a top 3 big man in the NBA while the Suns haven't been linked to Cousins in any shape or form.

So I guess the Lakers assets are worth more than the Suns assets?

Its gonna be disgusting to see the Lakers rebuild or retool much faster than the Suns.

That was a rumor like a week ago. It's not gonna happen.