Tobias Harris To Pursue Near Max Deal With Pistons, Celtics Among Leading Suitors

[dVs33]

hypothetical... Would you give Meeks the Ben Gordon treatment and part with a 1st in order to dump him on Philly (or whomever)? The BG trade was widely criticized and there is no guarantee that even if you free up the cap space you could net 2 of Harris, Green, Carroll.

Unequivocally no.

Free agency is not a reliable enough way to acquire talent. The Pistons have shown that time and time again. No way do I sacrifice a pick to put more eggs in that basket.

Completely agree.
Meeks' deal isn't even that bad when you consider the contracts that are about to be handed out.
We aren't good enough to deal picks. They're too valuable to young developing teams.

[Montanabadboy]

A potential core of Reggie, KCP, Stan, Tobias, and Dre seems nice but we're putting a lot on expecting some major improvements, aren't we?

Do we have much of a choice? I mean really, what are our other options for improvement? Free agency has proven to be difficult for us to add any impact players, you need assets to trade, with a core as young as ours what other choice do we have than to acquire what young talent we have and hope they develop and improve?

[Cowology]

Building a balanced team with no superstars is pretty much the only alternative to either being a marquee FA destination or tanking your way to a top 3 pick. Which is also no guarantee.

I like our potential roster if we land a player like Harris. A lot. And that's with the understanding we'll need to see a lot of internal growth from some young and unproven talent.

[Blkbrd671]

I hear what you are saying but we have to think beyond this season. I seriously doubt we'd pass on Harris just because we might not be able to snag a decent backup center. He fits too well moving forward.

i contest that, SVG i don't think values one position more highly than the other. I agree that we dont' pass on harris, but we will addresss the back up center position, it'll just mean we'll have to give up assets to do it. Depending on what asset. i maybe okay with it. SVG also said there are some vets available that can play the roll through the first half of the season.

[Blkbrd671]

I'm starting to think svg has kinda cornered himself. He traded for erson (nothing wrong with the trade) to start, but if erson doesn't really pan out, and he lands one of the true sf's on the market, it puts us in a bind. It's either tolliver, or erson, unless stan really believes johnson can play the 4 (he's around the same size as draymond, maybe even heavier)which I don't know if he can or not.

We really, really need to sign a versatile forward here. Johnsons to good to come off the bench, we overpaid for a backup. Erson sucks starting, we are stuck with tolliver.

I like danny green, and I could care less about money, it's not mine, but alot of our cap could be sucked up, on a bench player, if johnson ends up starting.

If we land tobias, it solves to problems, right out of the gate.

I have this feeling though, after stan passed on winslow, he wont even make an offer to tobias. His target, is, in fact, danny green. He is the type of player, stan would covet.

I like the team so far, but I'm worried.

You need to keep in mind, SVG is entering Year 2 of his 5 year plan. He doesn't feel he needs to make a splash now, though it would be nice moving forward. SVG has not cornered himself into anything. Erson,"panning out", depends soley on his health rather than play, and need i remind you we traded, nothing and got value. If anything SVG put the pistons in a position of leverage going into FA, now we don't have to address two starting positions but rather one not to mention next year is a TO.

The only reason SVG has "green > Harris" is due to their classification of FA. SVG's strategy is smart, don't put the team in a position where we are desperate. Last time that happend , mind you, we signed Josh smith. Further more, Danny Green is a elite 3 point shooter that makes this offense significantly more potent. He'll also not cost as much and fill out the roster.

[Blkbrd671]

Harris is a really, really good player, but he disappears like a magician at times. I'm sure this has been touched on, but would you guys prefer Harris or Draymond?

Regardless both are going to get the max where ever they go.

Got to go with Harris. He's 22 and much more versatile player offensively. age is probably the only difference between them as both are very good players.

[Blkbrd671]

Thinking more about this I remember that nobody can officially sign for the first week BUT UFA's can of course agree to accept an offer and then sign it when it's first allowed on July 8th (or whenever) whereas RFA's could agree to an offer sheet and sign it the first opportunity when allowed, but then their team would have the 2-3 days to match it or not. So this makes a lot of sense that Stan would first go after Danny Green or DeMarre Carroll to try and get them to agree quickly - like he did with Jodie Meeks, and if they decide to go elsewhere then he can still get in on Harris. Harris can't guarantee himself to Detroit on July 1st-July 8th, the UFA's can. He could agree to sign an offer sheet though I guess, but then our best bet would be to first try and work out a S&T with Orlando and if they were demanding too much - have Tobias sign our offer sheet officially and double dog dare Orlando to match.

With the drafting of Hez, chances of them matching are highly unlikely

[Blkbrd671]

hypothetical... Would you give Meeks the Ben Gordon treatment and part with a 1st in order to dump him on Philly (or whomever)? The BG trade was widely criticized and there is no guarantee that even if you free up the cap space you could net 2 of Harris, Green, Carroll.

Negative ghostrider

If we are parting with a guy like meeks, it'll be to address teh backup center position. And i feel a lot of things have to go right for us to get to the point were we are willing to let go meeks.

[Blkbrd671]

I would expect a 3 team trade as the Magic if anything have a loaded backcourt. Boston has more to offer in a trade being they are loaded with future 1sts from other teams. Will be interesting to see what happens.

i just hope we aren't giving up any core assets

[Blkbrd671]

I love taking a peek at other team forums and realizing everyone else's fans are just as crazy as the ones for my team.

Don't you dare try to out-crazy us...............we take that sh* personal

[Kilo]

They'd only be on the hook for him for 3-4 months then could trade him if he agreed, or at worst the season and then they could trade him anywhere for a solid return - and with the cap exploding all teams will have money next off-season to be able to fit Harris on to their salary structure so Orlando wouldn't have to take on anything back other that draft picks if they didn't want to.

Zero reason to let him go for free. But I think you and I have gone back and forth on this a couple times now. I guess it's time to just see how things will play out over the next few days and couple of weeks. Tobias will sign somewhere - if it's with Orlando and 11-12M yearly then they surely would have matched a $14M offer, and if he signs an offer sheet elsewhere we'll see for sure what Orlando will do.

[tooler]

Someone on our forum floated a theory that we did not extend Harris so we'd have enough cap room to sign a max free agent if one was available and willing to come (I doubt they are targeting LMA/Love/Jordan/etc.) THEN re-sign Harris to whatever contract he gets. That way we can re-sign him for "free" using the RFA exception and at that point we just need to stay under the tax line if that's what ownership wants.

Whether that was the plan all along or not, I'm fairly confident they've targeted some attainable UFAs and will have agreements in place before July 8th. This is how it worked out with Channing Frye last season (unfortunately, in hindsight ) and he wasn't even their first choice.

The only way I could see another team getting Harris is if he genuinely wants to force his way out and signs the offer at 12:01 AM without coordinating with the Magic. I'm not clear on the CBA rules but it's possible he becomes an immediate cap hold at that point and we'd have to decide between him and the UFA. Or maybe there is a 24 hour "same day" window preventing that, not sure.

Otherwise the Magic will sign their UFA target(s) and then match him. They're not going to hang around all summer waiting for a free agent to fall in their lap.

[Spider156]

You have to ask how did Golden State do it? They drafted their players and made one or two FA signings like Iggy and Bogut. I'm not sure if Bogut was a trade. Point is Iggy is their best FA, not Curry or Thompson. Those two were drafted. There MUST be internal development from Dre and Jackson in order to get better. If Johnson becomes something good in 2 years, we'll be serious contenders. Otherwise it's not easy for any team unless you can get a star somehow, big markets. It's not too difficult. You can get players for cheap and develop them or maybe swing for the fences and hope to run home. The Spurs like to sign cheap deals and develop them. Clippers just got Stephenson swinging for the fences hoping he'll be something special in the Playoffs.

[Blkbrd671]

Someone on our forum floated a theory that we did not extend Harris so we'd have enough cap room to sign a max free agent if one was available and willing to come (I doubt they are targeting LMA/Love/Jordan/etc.) THEN re-sign Harris to whatever contract he gets. That way we can re-sign him for "free" using the RFA exception and at that point we just need to stay under the tax line if that's what ownership wants.

Whether that was the plan all along or not, I'm fairly confident they've targeted some attainable UFAs and will have agreements in place before July 8th. This is how it worked out with Channing Frye last season (unfortunately, in hindsight ) and he wasn't even their first choice.

The only way I could see another team getting Harris is if he genuinely wants to force his way out and signs the offer at 12:01 AM without coordinating with the Magic. I'm not clear on the CBA rules but it's possible he becomes an immediate cap hold at that point and we'd have to decide between him and the UFA. Or maybe there is a 24 hour "same day" window preventing that, not sure.

Otherwise the Magic will sign their UFA target(s) and then match him. They're not going to hang around all summer waiting for a free agent to fall in their lap.

If Magic do not intend on being players in FA, then matching harris is probably their best bet. The only problem i see arising is the timing issue and it hindering Orlando's flexibility in FA. and the fact that Orlando just drafted Hez, and doesn't seem to have a clear direction in terms of winning. Where as Detroit/Boston/NY can point to a plan. I am obviously bias'd but what would be enticing about staying in Orlando for Harris?

[tooler]

...and the fact that Orlando just drafted Hez...

We don't expect Hezzy / Flyzonja / Super Mario to play more than 25 MPG as he tries to pick up team defense. The real question is whether they pursue a clear PF in UFA. Otherwise, I suspect they are going to try either Tobias or Aaron at the 4. Keep on the lookout for that late in the moratorium.

...and doesn't seem to have a clear direction in terms of winning. Where as Detroit/Boston/NY can point to a plan. I am obviously bias'd but what would be enticing about staying in Orlando for Harris?

Yeah, sorry, this is obviously biased, and it's one of the amusing things to see when I visit other team forums.

The team looked listless the last few years. Whether it was tanking or a genuine letdown last year, the goal now under the new coach is to play top 10 defense. My theory is they want to grow their first round picks rather than trying to buy players in the draft, but that's just a theory. The GM could go in another direction.

[Blkbrd671]

Yeah, sorry, this is obviously biased, and it's one of the amusing things to see when I visit other team forums.

The team looked listless the last few years. Whether it was tanking or a genuine letdown last year, the goal now under the new coach is to play top 10 defense. My theory is they want to grow their first round picks rather than trying to buy players in the draft, but that's just a theory. The GM could go in another direction.

Orlando to me reminds me of Minny in the west. So much young talent, but can't get over the hump. I am not sure "we are going to be a great defensive" team is good enough to keep harris. Where as Boston/NYK will sell him on him being a part of their future core, and Detroit sell him on being a perfect fit in SVG system and next to Dre. Orlando can try to sell him on being part of their future, with so many other young players that play similar positions, it be hard to believe.

[tooler]

Orlando to me reminds me of Minny in the west. So much young talent, but can't get over the hump. I am not sure "we are going to be a great defensive" team is good enough to keep harris. Where as Boston/NYK will sell him on him being a part of their future core, and Detroit sell him on being a perfect fit in SVG system and next to Dre. Orlando can try to sell him on being part of their future, with so many other young players that play similar positions, it be hard to believe.

Hah! Orlando has barely gotten off the ground, let alone over a hump. Clear rebuild process via the draft. Last year was the first time they had any expectations, and yeah they flopped. Minnesota was treadmilling and backed into two #1 picks. Boston is in the asset accumulation stage though credit to them for making the playoffs.

Harris should definitely consider his future role and the Magic need to inform him of the plan. That's a huge factor to weigh. But matching a max offer doesn't exactly mean he's chopped liver. The deal will be moveable but not that easy.

It's not yet clear Harris wants to bang against 4s his entire career. Last season he slimmed down (though he replaced the weight with muscle) and it seemed like he wanted to make a genuine effort at the 3... which happens to be the position of your first round draft pick. Can he play the 2 like Hezonja? (Maybe Oladipo should be worried!)

You guys have a great coach and some nice young pieces. Just try to see it from another perspective sometimes.

I think it's all moot and they will match anyway. We'll see.

[tooler]

And one more thing. Tell Kilo to stop trying to dump Brandon Jennings on us. We're not that dumb. Hehe

[Blkbrd671]

er a hump. Clear rebuild process via the draft. Last year was the first time they had any expectations, and yeah they flopped. Minnesota was treadmilling and backed into two #1 picks. Boston is in the asset accumulation stage though credit to them for making the playoffs.

Harris should definitely consider his future role and the Magic need to inform him of the plan. That's a huge factor to weigh. But matching a max offer doesn't exactly mean he's chopped liver. The deal will be moveable but not that easy.

It's not yet clear Harris wants to bang against 4s his entire career. Last season he slimmed down (though he replaced the weight with muscle) and it seemed like he wanted to make a genuine effort at the 3... which happens to be the position of your first round draft pick. Can he play the 2 like Hezonja? (Maybe Oladipo should be worried!)

You guys have a great coach and some nice young pieces. Just try to see it from another perspective sometimes.

I think it's all moot and they will match anyway. We'll see.

That is purely my perspective from a 3rd party with little knowledge of Orlando's FO plan. However if Orlando is rebuilding, why would Harris want to wait another 2-3 years until the rest of ORlando's roster is ready. Furthermore, i feel your completely underestimating the power of a players desire to play somewhere else. If Orlando decides to match Harris deal despite Harris clear intention he would like to move. Now Orlando's got a long term contract, with a disgruntled player, in which teams know he wants to move. You can't treat players/human beings like assets and expect them to just suck it up and like it. Ask RJ and OKC

Harris very well may have ties to the team that have more value than any money can measure, my point is that Harris is going into his 5th year most of which he's been on a losing Orlando team and they are still "rebuilding', does it make sense for harris to go back furthermore does it make sense for Orlando to pay that much?

[Blkbrd671]

And one more thing. Tell Kilo to stop trying to dump Brandon Jennings on us. We're not that dumb. Hehe

its not considered a dump by our team, and he's expiring.