Tobias Harris To Pursue Near Max Deal With Pistons, Celtics Among Leading Suitors

tooler · Post #201 » by **tooler** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:56 am

You raise good points and I respect them. I feel the same way about not treating players like assets. I think the young GM has tried to establish himself as a fair dealer. This isn't Phoenix or Boston with 4 point guards or Philly churning through pieces.

Still, it's up to the front office to convince Tobias he's an important part of their future, and also that they plan to start winning. If he flat-out says "I don't want to play for Orlando any more" then that's a major factor to consider, but not all failed extensions or adversarial contract matches turn into disasters.

I think your last paragraph is too biased once again. I believe the organization expects to start winning this year. They probably expected to turn the corner last year and failed. I can't guarantee the playoffs but they're well out of the "rebuilding" phase and beginning to leave the "building" phase.

sc8581 · Post #202 » by **sc8581** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:12 am

Orlando seems to be just as far along as we are, probably even a little further they just lack a veteran or two.

Vucevic/Frye
Gordon/Nicholson
Harris/Mario/Harkless
Olidipo/Fournier
Payton

I might be missing somebody but that's a lot of very good young talent that is further along than ours.

bjones521 · Post #203 » by **bjones521** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:28 am

sc8581 wrote:Orlando seems to be just as far along as we are, probably even a little further they just lack a veteran or two.

Vucevic/Frye
Gordon/Nicholson
Harris/Mario/Harkless
Olidipo/Fournier
Payton

I might be missing somebody but that's a lot of very good young talent that is further along than ours.

Wow, actually looking at their roster I'd match if I were Orlando. They actually are further along than us. If SVG had that lineup last year instead of a horrible Jacque Vaughn I think they may have won more games than us. If your Scott Skiles I want to see what all these dudes healthy can do. Who's to say Orl Magic management don't think that Mario isn't ready to start just like we don't think Stanley is. Mario was only averaging 15min a game.

tooler · Post #204 » by **tooler** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:40 am

sc8581 wrote:Orlando seems to be just as far along as we are, probably even a little further they just lack a veteran or two.

Vucevic/Frye
Gordon/Nicholson
Harris/Mario/Harkless
Olidipo/Fournier
Payton

I might be missing somebody but that's a lot of very good young talent that is further along than ours.

Thanks for the kind words. Dewayne Dedmon is our loveable backup center who was at risk for being out of the league at one point, so he plays as hard as he can and tries to block or dunk on every play.

sc8581 · Post #205 » by **sc8581** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:01 am

tooler wrote:
sc8581 wrote:Orlando seems to be just as far along as we are, probably even a little further they just lack a veteran or two.

Vucevic/Frye
Gordon/Nicholson
Harris/Mario/Harkless
Olidipo/Fournier
Payton

I might be missing somebody but that's a lot of very good young talent that is further along than ours.

Thanks for the kind words. Dewayne Dedmon is our loveable backup center who was at risk for being out of the league at one point, so he plays as hard as he can and tries to block or dunk on every play.

Totally forgot about him. Don't know much about Dedmon but I saw one game he played and some highlights of others, I remember looking up his stats a few months back and they were impressive for the limited minutes he was getting. Your team has the talent that has already or will translate at the NBA level, it will just take another year or two for them to learn how to use their skills properly and play smarter.

SAKURABA216 · Post #206 » by **SAKURABA216** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:11 am

WTF, you guys had me thinking the Magic wouldn't match and now you think they will? I was getting my hopes up. Man, we need to get this dude at all costs. Lets S&T if need be. I would throw in a protected 1st if that would get it done. I'm probably alone on that one though.

sc8581 · Post #207 » by **sc8581** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:33 am

SAKURABA216 wrote:WTF, you guys had me thinking the Magic wouldn't match and now you think they will? I was getting my hopes up. Man, we need to get this dude at all costs. Lets S&T if need be. I would throw in a protected 1st if that would get it done. I'm probably alone on that one though.

Nobody would mind trading a protected 1st for Harris, I wouldn't even mind and I don't even want Harris lol

BadMofoPimp · Post #208 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:47 pm

With Harris, the Pistons wouldn't be a lottery team, so a top 5 future protected 1st should suffice for worst case scenarios.

rmfc · Post #209 » by **rmfc** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:55 pm

Tobias would be such a good fit as a 3/4 combo on this team. I hope SVG doesn't settle for cheaper alternatives before going hard after Harris.

Piston Pete · Post #210 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:54 pm

Harris for Jennings and a protected first

rmfc · Post #211 » by **rmfc** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:14 pm

Piston Pete wrote:Harris for Jennings and a protected first

Yes.

ImHeisenberg · Post #212 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:30 pm

If Harris agrees to a 4-year max scale contract, I would be surprised if they didn't just match. Barring they have a bigger plan in mind that doesn't include Harris.

But, with the cap expected to hit $108 million in two years, paying $15 million to Harris will be about the equivalent of a mid-level contract. It's the same reason that it will be a very reasonable deal when we sign Reggie to a $14+ million 4 year deal.

Piston Pete · Post #213 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:47 pm

Which is why we need to get Harris to sign the offer sheet, first and foremost.

Then it gives us 3 days to negotiate a deal with the Magic to not match

An expiring Jennings and a pick could do the trick.

DetroitPistons · Post #214 » by **DetroitPistons** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:10 pm

A-Wins wrote:A potential core of Reggie, KCP, Stan, Tobias, and Dre seems nice but we're putting a lot on expecting some major improvements, aren't we?

To an extent yes, but It's not that big of a gamble. We were basically a .500 team the second half of last year and could've been better had we not dealt with the Monroe injury and the Jennings/Jackson transition. There is zero doubt in my mind that Jackson will be able to stay that productive for an entire season in SVGs system with starting minutes. If we were a playoff team Jackson and Drummond would already be considered borderline allstars. KCP is still quite inconsistent but there is no question he played better than his rookie year and I expect more improvements in his 3rd year with his work ethic. We would also be going from a makeshift SF rotation to having an established SF of the future albeit a young one. Harris would be a HUGE upgrade over Tolliver too. So yeah, we would be depending on internal growth mainly but it's not like we would have a bunch of unproven talent. Johnson would be the only one to fit that description. We know Jackson, Dre, and Harris can play consistently at a high level and even KCP has shown that he is at least viable at SG at this point in his career. Even SVG has said in the past that he wants to build a young core of guys who fit his system, buy into his system, and are of the same age so that they can grow together. That is exactly what that lineup would provide if SVG is smart enough to swing for the fences on Harris. Honestly, if we swung and missed I wouldn't even be too upset considering that their aren't that many other guys out there who I want to pay big bucks to play PF for us for the foreseeable future. We would still have backup options with Ilyasova and Tolliver. SVG has been amazing with his under the radar moves but he will eventually need to make a splash to make us legit again. Harris could easily be that splash.

DetroitPistons · Post #215 » by **DetroitPistons** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:13 pm

bjones521 wrote:
sc8581 wrote:Orlando seems to be just as far along as we are, probably even a little further they just lack a veteran or two.

Vucevic/Frye
Gordon/Nicholson
Harris/Mario/Harkless
Olidipo/Fournier
Payton

I might be missing somebody but that's a lot of very good young talent that is further along than ours.

Wow, actually looking at their roster I'd match if I were Orlando. They actually are further along than us. If SVG had that lineup last year instead of a horrible Jacque Vaughn I think they may have won more games than us. If your Scott Skiles I want to see what all these dudes healthy can do. Who's to say Orl Magic management don't think that Mario isn't ready to start just like we don't think Stanley is. Mario was only averaging 15min a game.

If SVG had that lineup last year he would've made some major trades because that team can't shoot

DetroitPistons · Post #216 » by **DetroitPistons** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:18 pm

Piston Pete wrote:Harris for Jennings and a protected first

That's actually a great trade for both teams imo. I can't believe I'm saying that about a Piston Pete trade lol. Idk how much Orlando values Payton but I'm personally not impressed with him at all. He will be a career backup imo. Jennings would come in and immediately take that team to another level assuming he fully recovers from his injury. He is also still very young so he would fit right in with that core. I don't think Orlando would find a better deal for a RFA that everyone knows they don't want to match.

DetroitPistons · Post #217 » by **DetroitPistons** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:21 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:If Harris agrees to a 4-year max scale contract, I would be surprised if they didn't just match. Barring they have a bigger plan in mind that doesn't include Harris.

But, with the cap expected to hit $108 million in two years, paying $15 million to Harris will be about the equivalent of a mid-level contract. It's the same reason that it will be a very reasonable deal when we sign Reggie to a $14+ million 4 year deal.

We know Jackson is a HUGE part of our plans though. I'm not sure Orlando is going to feel comfortable handing a big contract to a guy they feel is expendable regardless of the increasing cap. That is still a risk if they struggle to make him fit in and is money they can spend elsewhere on positions of need.

Neptune · Post #218 » by **Neptune** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:21 pm

I'm hearing this guy is leaning towards Boston. :-?

Man, it's going to be embarrassing if we end up with weak ass Illyasova as our starting 4.

Make something positive happen at midnight SVG!

DetroitPistons · Post #219 » by **DetroitPistons** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:23 pm

Piston Pete wrote:Which is why we need to get Harris to sign the offer sheet, first and foremost.

Then it gives us 3 days to negotiate a deal with the Magic to not match

An expiring Jennings and a pick could do the trick.

I don't think it will work that way. We will either sign him to an offer sheet and wait or get a S&T done before he signs. It would look terrible if we signed him to an offer sheet and then gave up two valuable assets because we were simply uncertain if Orlando would match.

DetroitPistons · Post #220 » by **DetroitPistons** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:25 pm

Neptune wrote:I'm hearing this guy is leaning towards Boston. Man, it's going to be embarrassing if we end up with weak ass Illyasova as our starting 4.

Make something positive happen at midnight SVG!

Where did you hear that? I wouldn't be surprised simple because BOS made the playoffs. I think we have a much brighter future than BOS though. SVG should just offer him the max at midnight and be done with it.