The Tobias Harris Situation

[eyriq]

Q

John Ariemma
@stevekylerNBA so harris doesn't want to play for skiles now?

A

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 56s56 seconds ago
I have talked to him directly - he has no issues with Skiles, is about being wanted by the franchise and winning.

Same. The city too, also was frustrated by putting all of his efforts into the community and everything to bust his ass on the floor, but still gets mostly crap from the fans. He says he's moved past it though and knows that there's always going to be a group of unhappy fans nomatter the effort put in.

I don't have a personal relationship with Harris or any of our players, I just want the team to win and call it how I see it. It isn't personal, it's simply sports fans evaluating their favorite team on an amateur level. I've wondered before if you were on the guys payroll haha, but it is cool that you've spoken to him before. Tobias seems like a politician.

[MagicFan101]

If we lose harris then hezonja no doubt starts at the 3. Much less depth with harris gone.

The roster spot doesn't leave with him.

If Harris leaves we have the money and room to sign another quality vet while giving extra time to both Mario and Gordon.

The Day 1 level of play might suffer but if we let Harris go it is because we believe these guys are better long term prospects and we have a nice vet coming in for depth.

[floppymoose]

been shown before that Harris does play defense.

The issue is far from clear and IMO the "tweener that can't defend a position" narrative has a lot more evidence than the "most underrated free agent, average defender" narrative.

Crap like this is why I really hope we don't match. Its apparent he will continue to be the scapegoat [...]

The Magic were a poor defensive team last year. On such a team, you would expect even an average defender to help them. Instead, they were worse defensively when Harris was on the floor. By a lot. The raw numbers are here:
http://www.82games.com/1415/14ORL10.HTM#onoff
You could do special pleading and say it's because of who he takes the floor with or against, but the adjusted numbers take that into account and they are bad too:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

There is a similar pattern if you look at numbers from the prior season.

Harris is part of the problem. The idea that he is even an average defender now is a very tough sell. The real question is can he become a good defender down the road.

[tiderulz]

The issue is far from clear and IMO the "tweener that can't defend a position" narrative has a lot more evidence than the "most underrated free agent, average defender" narrative.

Crap like this is why I really hope we don't match. Its apparent he will continue to be the scapegoat [...]

The Magic were a poor defensive team last year. On such a team, you would expect even an average defender to help them. Instead, they were worse defensively when Harris was on the floor. By a lot. The raw numbers are here:
http://www.82games.com/1415/14ORL10.HTM#onoff
You could do special pleading and say it's because of who he takes the floor with or against, but the adjusted numbers take that into account and they are bad too:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

Harris is part of the problem. The idea that he is even average now is a very tough sell. The real question is can he become a good defender down the road.

i believe DRPM has been debunked before, as it relies a lot on previous years data and projects current information.

[floppymoose]

i believe DRPM has been debunked before, as it relies a lot on previous years data and projects current information.

You can believe what you want, but RPM is the best I've found at predicting future results. If something else were better I would use it. Haven't found it yet.

[Neon1]

Q

A

Same. The city too, also was frustrated by putting all of his efforts into the community and everything to bust his ass on the floor, but still gets mostly crap from the fans. He says he's moved past it though and knows that there's always going to be a group of unhappy fans nomatter the effort put in.

I don't have a personal relationship with Harris or any of our players, I just want the team to win and call it how I see it. It isn't personal, it's simply sports fans evaluating their favorite team on an amateur level. I've wondered before if you were on the guys payroll haha, but it is cool that you've spoken to him before. Tobias seems like a politician.

I do not even remotely have a relationship with him, but I have had a very recent conversation with him. I had previously never come across him in any way.

I don't think he is politely (as in agenda driven) just thinks very professional, seasoned vet like, and understands the biz of basketball and (according to him) has come to learn that fans are fans and you can never please them all no matter how hard you try on court and in community.

[mojosodope]

Crap like this is why I really hope we don't match. Its apparent he will continue to be the scapegoat [...]

The Magic were a poor defensive team last year. On such a team, you would expect even an average defender to help them. Instead, they were worse defensively when Harris was on the floor. By a lot. The raw numbers are here:
http://www.82games.com/1415/14ORL10.HTM#onoff
You could do special pleading and say it's because of who he takes the floor with or against, but the adjusted numbers take that into account and they are bad too:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

Harris is part of the problem. The idea that he is even average now is a very tough sell. The real question is can he become a good defender down the road.

i believe DRPM has been debunked before, as it relies a lot on previous years data and projects current information.

It has, but when those "debunking" events occur, the conversation is simply shelved so that it can be used again in the near future

[tiderulz]

i believe DRPM has been debunked before, as it relies a lot on previous years data and projects current information.

You can believe what you want, but RPM is the best I've found at predicting future results. If something else were better I would use it. Haven't found it yet.

would be interesting to see what numbers looked like with a good defensive center.

[Neon1]

I don't have a personal relationship with Harris or any of our players, I just want the team to win and call it how I see it. It isn't personal, it's simply sports fans evaluating their favorite team on an amateur level.

That's all I care about. If I believed we would be closer to being contenders by letting him walk and simply plugging Mo Harkless, Aaron Gordon or now Mario Hezonja then I would watch us let him walk out the door and basically erase him from thought.

But looking at the players on this team that would not be the case imo.

I expect this team to be better then last year's record even if Tobias is out the door, simply through coaching and player growth, but imo wherever we end up next year I believe we would be better with Harris here on top of what we have.

When we let him go this summer and he's on another team I will simply move on to what we need to do in order to be better with what we have like I always have.

[mojosodope]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro/status/615924515755950080[/tweet]

[Driguez]

Q

John Ariemma
@stevekylerNBA so harris doesn't want to play for skiles now?

A

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 56s56 seconds ago
I have talked to him directly - he has no issues with Skiles, is about being wanted by the franchise and winning.

Same. The city too, also was frustrated by putting all of his efforts into the community and everything to bust his ass on the floor, but still gets mostly crap from the fans. He says he's moved past it though and knows that there's always going to be a group of unhappy fans nomatter the effort put in.

If true, it reminds me of a certain someone. Don't bitch about it. It doesn't matter where you play you will always have fan boys and people who will call you out over everything. Meh.

[Neon1]

The issue is far from clear and IMO the "tweener that can't defend a position" narrative has a lot more evidence than the "most underrated free agent, average defender" narrative.

Crap like this is why I really hope we don't match. Its apparent he will continue to be the scapegoat [...]

The Magic were a poor defensive team last year. On such a team, you would expect even an average defender to help them. Instead, they were worse defensively when Harris was on the floor. By a lot. The raw numbers are here:
http://www.82games.com/1415/14ORL10.HTM#onoff
You could do special pleading and say it's because of who he takes the floor with or against, but the adjusted numbers take that into account and they are bad too:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

There is a similar pattern if you look at numbers from the prior season.

Harris is part of the problem. The idea that he is even an average defender now is a very tough sell. The real question is can he become a good defender down the road.

But yet ignore this from the very same website.
http://www.82games.com/1415/1415ORL.HTM

[Orlwillbeback]

If we lose harris then hezonja no doubt starts at the 3. Much less depth with harris gone.

The roster spot doesn't leave with him.

If Harris leaves we have the money and room to sign another quality vet while giving extra time to both Mario and Gordon.

The Day 1 level of play might suffer but if we let Harris go it is because we believe these guys are better long term prospects and we have a nice vet coming in for depth.

You areore confident about our teams ability to attract a quality fa than me.

[KillMonger]

Damn tobias it's like that? i'm hope it's just hearsay but from what it's looking like he's doing everything he can to tell the magic he doesn't want to come back without outright telling them he doesn't want to come back. Well, Henny did say he wants players that want to be here and if Tobias doesn't then i guess it's been a good ride.

[KillMonger]

If we lose harris then hezonja no doubt starts at the 3. Much less depth with harris gone.

The roster spot doesn't leave with him.

If Harris leaves we have the money and room to sign another quality vet while giving extra time to both Mario and Gordon.

The Day 1 level of play might suffer but if we let Harris go it is because we believe these guys are better long term prospects and we have a nice vet coming in for depth.

You areore confident about our teams ability to attract a quality fa than me.

we can attract FA just not the big names who are ring chasing, we're just not a good enough team for those guys.

[tooler]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro/status/615924515755950080[/tweet]

It's all Adam's fault!

[Neon1]

Q

A

Same. The city too, also was frustrated by putting all of his efforts into the community and everything to bust his ass on the floor, but still gets mostly crap from the fans. He says he's moved past it though and knows that there's always going to be a group of unhappy fans nomatter the effort put in.

If true, it reminds me of a certain someone. Don't bitch about it. It doesn't matter where you play you will always have fan boys and people who will call you out over everything. Meh.

What I bolded is basically exactly what he said, he said he's come to learn that as a pro athlete you cannot please all fans, no matter what you do. Positive will be positive and negative will be negative.

Just like how you took that and turned it negative as if he was bitching. What he said was a response to something I said to him about appreciating his off court work in the community.

But you just spun it into trying to make him look like Dwight/TMAC or whoever you are implying.

[Neon1]

Damn tobias it's like that? i'm hope it's just hearsay but from what it's looking like he's doing everything he can to tell the magic he doesn't want to come back without outright telling them he doesn't want to come back. Well, Henny did say he wants players that want to be here and if Tobias doesn't then i guess it's been a good ride.

See what I mean ^^^

The one guy that spends more of his PERSONAL TIME for free all in the community of Orlando. No player on this team spent more personal time into Orlando then Tobias. Not Oladipo, not Elfrid, not Aaron, not KOQ, not Mie, not Evan. Tobias was.

But spin away.

[KillMonger]

Damn tobias it's like that? i'm hope it's just hearsay but from what it's looking like he's doing everything he can to tell the magic he doesn't want to come back without outright telling them he doesn't want to come back. Well, Henny did say he wants players that want to be here and if Tobias doesn't then i guess it's been a good ride.

See what I mean ^^^

The one guy that spends more of his PERSONAL TIME for free all in the community of Orlando. No player on this team spent more personal time into Orlando then Tobias. Not Oladipo, not Elfrid, not Aaron, not KOQ, not Mie, not Evan. Tobias was.

But spin away.

i'm not spinning squat i'm just commenting on the rumors that i've seen here and elsewhere....don't pull me into your talking point

[tiderulz]

Damn tobias it's like that? i'm hope it's just hearsay but from what it's looking like he's doing everything he can to tell the magic he doesn't want to come back without outright telling them he doesn't want to come back. Well, Henny did say he wants players that want to be here and if Tobias doesn't then i guess it's been a good ride.

Q

John Ariemma
@stevekylerNBA so harris doesn't want to play for skiles now?

A

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 56s56 seconds ago
I have talked to him directly - he has no issues with Skiles, is about being wanted by the franchise and winning.

so which do you believe? the unnamed sources writer out of NY, or Kyler?