Old DWill Thread: Update PG 48: Released by Heat today

rrosario35 · Post #161 » by **rrosario35** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:30 am

I just called NY1 the guy was hating on our team. I had to set him straight

Post #162 » by **moocow007** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:32 am

TrueWarrior wrote:I was down with taking a chance on Williams for the min, but to use most of the rest of the cap on him is awful when we have so many spots open. Particularly another reliable big.

The guy is only an athlete. Putrid defender. Non shooter. Doesnt rebound. Tweener. At least Beasley could score.

4 years ago I loved this dude, but that's the draft for ya. Phil lost me here.

I would have been less upset if they gave Beasley that contract. At least Beasley actually has skills and is a better all around player. And I'm by no means saying I'd want Beasley.

EdgeOf · Post #163 » by **EdgeOf** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:34 am

xNewYorkMadex wrote:Derrck should try and shed some weight so he can play SF.

Too poor of a defender and rebounder to play the 4 spot.

I read an article about him some years back. I was amazed a number 2 overall pick was being given up on so easily by the Wolves, this is of course before the Anthony Bennett draft.

Anyway the main points of the article were that Williams has no position. He is not big enough, not hungry enough, and not talented enough to mix it up with other 4's in the league, and he is not intelligent enough, not fast enough, and has zero shooting ability, so he can't play the 3.

Couple that with the lazy tag and this kid is literally stealing money.

Post #164 » by **moocow007** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:34 am

sasso wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
DE FENSE wrote:Seems kinda low risk, low reward to me. Phil must see something in him so let's all hope he can build on that.

He could have been had for the room exception. $2.8 million would have been more than fine for him. He's not worth $5 million per, not even in this climate.

To make matters worse, he has a player option for 2016, which he will undoubtedly accept after realizing no one will ever pay him that much again. If you give Derrick Williams that much money you should be able to easily get a team option. Horrible negotiating on Phil's part here.

Yeah. I don't get the player option one bit either. At least Afflalo has proven he can produce (as recently as the 2013-2014 season Afflalo was considered a hot commodity averaging 18ppg and shooting real well. Giving in to Afflalo and allowing him a player option...ok. Derrick Williams hasn't done a thing to warrant $5 million per much less also a player freaking option.

RussellandFlow · Post #165 » by **RussellandFlow** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:34 am

Why Phillip would give him a player option is baffling. He'll be in China with Blatche and Marbury soon as he stinks. Not sure if posted but he ranked 94 out of 94.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/6

TheBigBoss · Post #166 » by **TheBigBoss** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:43 am

Im one of Phil's biggest supporters but even i dont get this move. What does Williams do that Thanasis doesnt thats worth 5 mil per year? Does anyone know who Williams' agent is? Maybe this is a favor for something else coming soon?

SelbyCobra · Post #167 » by **SelbyCobra** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:45 am

moocow007 wrote:
sasso wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
He could have been had for the room exception. $2.8 million would have been more than fine for him. He's not worth $5 million per, not even in this climate.

To make matters worse, he has a player option for 2016, which he will undoubtedly accept after realizing no one will ever pay him that much again. If you give Derrick Williams that much money you should be able to easily get a team option. Horrible negotiating on Phil's part here.

Yeah. I don't get the player option one bit either. At least Afflalo has proven he can produce (as recently as the 2013-2014 season Afflalo was considered a hot commodity averaging 18ppg and shooting real well. Giving in to Afflalo and allowing him a player option...ok. Derrick Williams hasn't done a thing to warrant $5 million per much less also a player freaking option.

I agree with all of this completely, it just doesn't bother me because there's almost no way he's picking up the option.

What bothers me is everything else about the guy as a basketball player.

KnicksScholar24 · Post #168 » by **KnicksScholar24** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:47 am

Michael Beasley is next.

Strick · Post #169 » by **Strick** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:48 am

I'm pretty sure he is making the same per year as Kyle Singler now... Williams is way more worth it than Singler. I think he will be an important role player at the very least. I'm not saying he'll be an all- star, but this is a potential low risk high reward situation

Post #170 » by **moocow007** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:49 am

SethP wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
SethP wrote:You are aware that IFFFFFF he opts in for the second season, five million will be essentially the equivalent of the minimum with the cap raise, right?

Where are you getting that next year the vet minimum is going to be $5 million? Firstly vet minimum salary is not a flat amount, it's tiered based on number of years of service a player has had in the NBA. Derrick Williams minimum salary, for example, is approximately $1.015 million. The vet minimum for an undrafted rookie is just $525,000. For someone like Tayshaun Prince, his vet minimum is almost $1.5 million. Secondly, for the vet minimum has already been set for the 2016-2017 season. For Williams it would be $1.14 million.

I did not say it would be the minimum, I said with the inflation, the percentage of the 5M against the cap would be almost the same of that of a minimum deal. My mistake for not being transparent about that.

But that's not true either. For the percentage of the cap a $5 million contract against the new cap to be equal to a $1.14 million against the current cap, You would need the new cap to be about $300 million.

Assuming current cap is $68 million...'x' being the new cap...to determine what the new cap would have to be so that $5 million is the same percentage as the vet minimum under the current cap...

$5,000,000/x = $1,140,000/$68,000,000

x = $298,245,614.

Using the current minimum to cap percentage, for $5 million to be the new minimum the new cap would need to be nearly $300 million.

Red Vines · Post #171 » by **Red Vines** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:51 am

I was reading a few articles about him earlier today, was a baseball player before he shot up in height, picked up basketball in the 10th grade, was not highly recruited, really took off at Arizona, obviously could've used more time in school. Didn't see any knocks against his character, just struggled to find role, figure out what it takes. He's not Beasley, it's not like he's been with a winning organization and blew it...

symbiotic · Post #172 » by **symbiotic** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:51 am

In the minority of people who's really **** happy that he is a New York Knick!

Post #173 » by **moocow007** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:51 am

KnicksScholar24 wrote:Michael Beasley is next.

I'd have rather had Beasley instead. More skilled. More successful. Lol...more consistent (if that's not a kicker). And could have been had for the vet minimum.

AlphakirA · Post #174 » by **AlphakirA** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:52 am

moocow007 wrote:
AlphakirA wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Because he has no skills and has a rep as a guy that isn't consistent and doesn't work hard?

That's an exaggeration. He's a shorter DeAndre Jordan without the rebounds that hasn't been tapped into yet. Yeah he's probably a bust, but I don't see the harm in basically a 1 year deal where we weren't going to use the money anyway. Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the deal, but it's not like singing him prevented us from some other much better guy.

A 6'8" Deandre Jordan that can't rebound...or block shots and is inconsistent...is useless. They could have had Tyrus Thomas for the vet minimum if they were looking for former top picks that can do nothing but dunk. If they let Lance Thomas take as many bad shots as Williams was allowed to take he can probably also put up the same PPG while doing better on the RPG.

He's not probably a bust. He IS a bust. Just because he screams and acts up after a dunk doesn't mean he's still got potential or is somehow a "beast" of any sort...which I think some folks are thinking.

Believe me it's not being negative because the Knicks failed to land a big name...I liked the Robin Lopez signing and thought that the afflalo deal was borderline fair. This one doesn't make sense. I don't care what other players are being paid. Williams is one of the least useful free agent signing so far.

I'm on your side here, I've watched him play quite a few times and he's a borderline rotation player at best, I just can't help but think we're missing something that Phil sees. Copeland, Fields, Lin, Shawne Williams, and Novak were all either scrap heaps, throwaways, or late picks without much potential and for a short amount of time we were able to get them to thrive here. I know he doesn't have a skillset, but he's shown minor bursts of 'something' but hasn't tapped it - and may never - but he's only 24, let's see what Phil can do with him.

Post #175 » by **moocow007** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:54 am

Red Vines wrote:I was reading a few articles about him earlier today, was a baseball player before he shot up in height, picked up basketball in the 10th grade, was not highly recruited, really took off at Arizona, obviously could've used more time in school. Didn't see any knocks against his character, just struggled to find role, figure out what it takes. He's not Beasley, it's not like he's been with a winning organization and blew it...

Beasleys been better than him. If this was the boys scouts...ok. But Williams is just not worth $5 million per much less a player option.

Red Vines · Post #176 » by **Red Vines** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 4:56 am

moocow007 wrote:
Red Vines wrote:I was reading a few articles about him earlier today, was a baseball player before he shot up in height, picked up basketball in the 10th grade, was not highly recruited, really took off at Arizona, obviously could've used more time in school. Didn't see any knocks against his character, just struggled to find role, figure out what it takes. He's not Beasley, it's not like he's been with a winning organization and blew it...

Beasleys been better than him. If this was the boys scouts...ok. But Williams is just not worth $5 million per much less a player option.

Off court issues[edit]
On September 3, 2008, at the NBA's Rookie Transition Program, Beasley was involved in an incident along with fellow rookies Mario Chalmers and Darrell Arthur. Police responded to the hotel room of Chalmers and Arthur following a fire alarm at 2 am and claimed that the room smelled strongly of burning marijuana, but none was found and no charges were filed. Chalmers and Arthur were excused from the camp[62] because of the incident and were later fined $20,000 each for missing the rookie camp, but were not fined or suspended for any drug-related violations. Both later denied any involvement with marijuana.[63] Originally, ESPN reported that Beasley was also present in the room,[64] but was not asked to leave camp. The story was later updated and any mention of Beasley was removed from the article.[65]

On September 18, 2008, Beasley was fined $50,000 by the league for his involvement in the incident after Pat Riley forced him to confess to league officials that he had slipped out the door when the police arrived.[66][67][68]

On August 24, 2009, Beasley reportedly checked into a Houston rehab center, just days after he posted pictures of himself on his Twitter page with what some have speculated to be marijuana in the background.[68] It is unknown if the rehab was drug related; officially he was receiving counseling for stress-related issues.[69]

On June 26, 2011, Beasley was driving in the Minneapolis suburb of Minnetonka when he was pulled over by a policeman for speeding. The policeman noticed that the car smelled of a strong odor of marijuana. The officer allegedly found marijuana in a plastic bag under the front passenger seat. However, Beasley said the marijuana was not his, but belonged to a friend whom he had just dropped off. Beasley was consequently fined and ticketed.[70]

In August 2011 Beasley was on a NYC streetball tour with good friend and all-star Oklahoma City Thunder forward Kevin Durant when he got into an altercation with a heckler, shoving a hand in his face.[71]

On August 6, 2013, Beasley was arrested on suspicion of marijuana possession in Scottsdale, Arizona. According to police reports, narcotics were confiscated from Beasley's car after he was stopped for a traffic violation.[72] That arrest was a factor in Beasley's official removal from the Suns a month later.

In September 2014, a sexual assault case from January 2013 involving Beasley was dropped after no probable cause was established.[73]

LifeLongKNICK · Post #177 » by **LifeLongKNICK** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 5:01 am

well. i vented.

now im all aboard the derwill train.

CHOOO CHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHAMPIONSHIP TIME!!!!

Post #178 » by **moocow007** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 5:01 am

Also was there really a need to rush into this signing? No...they didn't get the big names because they neither had the financial nor winning advantage. But the reality is that there are only so many teams with cap space greater than the MLE. At some point someone (history says several someone's) worth more than the MLE will be left out in the cold and would have to settle for less money UNLESS there were still teams with more more than the MLE. At that point the W-L records the previous season (aka the biggest obstacle the Knicks have been facing in getting FAs) won't matter near as much. Had Jackson held off this signing he'd have had $8 million AND an advantage that he didn't have this FA period. Now? They threw that advantage away for Derrick freakin Williams?!?!

LifeLongKNICK · Post #179 » by **LifeLongKNICK** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 5:02 am

id still rather have barf then this guy btw. but oh well.

in phil we trust.

hope derrick shows up.

BLACKFEET 2010 · Post #180 » by **BLACKFEET 2010** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 5:04 am

moocow007 wrote:
KnicksScholar24 wrote:Michael Beasley is next.

I'd have rather had Beasley instead. More skilled. More successful. Lol...more consistent (if that's not a kicker). And could have been had for the vet minimum.

You too Moo??