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Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#81 » by AtheJ415 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:03 pm

JTrain wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
JTrain wrote:
PER is, of course, not perfect, but it's one of the best advanced stats we have. (FWIW - Len is also last in WS/48).

If there was a coherent point after the first sentence, I failed to decipher it.


There were plenty of coherent points, but you aren't very good at deciphering.

For instance, your premise states that Omer Asik was better than Alex Len last year. Nobody with eyes would agree.

Also, No was my first sentence, so you responded to the second one. :lol:

The last sentence was simply stating that we win because of our backcourt--not our front court. If I ranked Thabo and Perkins and even a younger Ibaka on similar stats through much of Durant and Westbrook's reign in OKC, it would look just as ugly. We have one of the best backcourts in basketball and you're saying we can't win because of our front court while eliminating the back court from the discussion. How do the Wizards look in that scenario also?


Had one of the best backcourts. Dragic and IT were a large part of it.

I would take Len over Asik, but head over to the General board and make a poll and you will see your statement there is simply empirically false (unless you can prove there are a lot of eyeless people over there). But the point is not about arguing PER specifically. The point is that our front court is really bad compared to the other teams in the West by most respected measurements. And we don't really know what our backcourt will be like, but the small sample size thus far indicates that it won't be nearly as good as the previous one.


I don't need to. I can head over to a Pelicans board and ask them what they think of Asik, as I have seen ALL season whenever I check their boards.

We know that our back court is still one of the best in basketball. It's no stretch to say that. It's not as if we haven't seen them play the game of basketball before. We have seen them separately enough to know they are good players. And that still doesn't address that judging any team by its worst 3 starters looks bad except for 2 or 3 teams in the entire league. In fact, going back historically to some of the great teams would have ridiculous results. It's just a truly awful premise.
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Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#82 » by matt131 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:06 pm

LeBron had no interest in recruiting Love, played without Irving this post season, likes Thompson and likes how huge Mosgov is. So. Max Thompson. Trade whoever expect Bled/Chandler. Max LeBron. Sign Knight.

Bled
Knight
LeBron
Thompson
Chandler

Lol just kidding


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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#83 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:20 pm

I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#84 » by JTrain » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:22 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:I don't need to. I can head over to a Pelicans board and ask them what they think of Asik, as I have seen ALL season whenever I check their boards.

We know that our back court is still one of the best in basketball. It's no stretch to say that. It's not as if we haven't seen them play the game of basketball before. We have seen them separately enough to know they are good players. And that still doesn't address that judging any team by its worst 3 starters looks bad except for 2 or 3 teams in the entire league. In fact, going back historically to some of the great teams would have ridiculous results. It's just a truly awful premise.


"I don't need to. I can head over to a Pelicans board and ask them what they think of Asik"

So are you now saying you are referring only to Pelican fans instead of people with eyes? You have shifted the goalposts.

"We know that our back court is still one of the best in basketball."

No, we don't know any such thing. We have two good but not great players that so far have a losing record when playing together and negative net points when playing together.

"judging any team by its worst 3 starters looks bad except for 2 or 3 teams"

False. There are at least 15 teams whose worst starting three look nothing close to as dismal as ours. In fact, only two teams in the West (Lakers and Timberwolves) are close. Also, a few teams that do have a bad "worst three" have a top 20-type superstar player among the other two, which we lack.

I'm glad to look over any empirical data supporting any point you are trying to make, but mere assertions ("We know...", "Anybody with eyes...") don't do much for me.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#85 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:22 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.



:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:



Trade a productive young power forward on a good contract for a pricy, soon to be 35 year old....what sense does that make, its not like the Suns are competing for a title. Might as well let Morris play and see what the team looks like.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#86 » by Flying Colors » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:22 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.

that sounds awful to me
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#87 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:23 pm

I say the Suns dream big and go all in for Durant next offseason, let the recruitment start now............someone take him out golfing!
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#88 » by Flying Colors » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:24 pm

SkinnyOMiller wrote:I say the Suns dream big and go all in for Durant next offseason, let the recruitment start now............someone take him out golfing!

i can't wait for Suns to be 2nd or 3rd place again for the third year in a row :cry:
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#89 » by bwgood77 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:26 pm

Before free agency started, Aldridge wasn't even on my radar as a Suns realistic target. I even had a poll in the Around the NBA thread with the 10 most likely (imo) scenarios of where the top free agents would end up. I had SA or Dallas in every possible scenario for him.

Just knowing that we were firmly ahead of LA, NY, Houston AND Dallas is something I don't think I can ever recall thinking as a Suns fan. I think McD is top notch in courting guys and drafting. He has made a few mistakes over the last year but he has quickly fixed them. I'm really impressed with this offseason. We were MUCH closer to getting Aldridge than I ever would have dreamed.

I don't think there are many more savvy front offices at this point.

Now that I think of it, even though I have since deleted the poll, I think like 8 of the 10 people picked that Aldridge would end up in SA, Jordan in Dallas and Gasol back to Memphis.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#90 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:27 pm

Also sorry guys. I woke up to the worst news ever (as a Suns fan). It sucks we couldn't get LMA. I don't believe Gambo's BS that LMA chose the Spurs two days before free agency started. I mean, he probably had them as his front runner but after hearing our pitch he heavily considered us. Honestly if he made his decision on Thursday, I think it would have been us. Because it's July 4th and he's spending time with family, his emotions and heart are telling him to stay in Texas. Can't blame the guy.
But... I can still hate the Spurs. I hope Timmy breaks his hip that old geezer. I hope Parker continues to spiral down towards the end of his career. Next year, he'll average 12 points and 4.2 assist. He's gonna be so trash. Manu is too old to get past anyone. Kawhi has peaked offensively.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#91 » by Flying Colors » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:28 pm

I'm still depressed
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#92 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:29 pm

Flying Colors wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.

that sounds awful to me



Sorry didn't realize 18.5 points, 12 boards, and 2 blocks a game was awful. No matter the age those are amazing numbers. Pau's also on a 7.5mil contract.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#93 » by thamadkant » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:30 pm

My 2015-2016 West ranking projections.
Top 4
Spurs
Warriors
Thunder
Grizzlies

Outside top 4
Rockets
Pelicans
Clippers

Fringe playoff
Mavericks
Jazz
Suns
Blazers


The top 4 is clear-cut better than everyone else.
Suns will battle it out with 4 teams (IMO) for that last spot.


Suns getting a player like Gallinari and David Lee, two veterans who provide 3pt shooting, rebounding can boost their chances for that last spot, if not top 7 spot.


Markieff Morris is simply not consistent enough to be THE starting PF, who the Suns need to rely on to score a bunch of points to off-set Chandler's lack of offense. IDEALLY, I would still like him as 6th man. But there is also a real chance of him being unhappy with the situation and may carry over to the young players.

The Suns may now consider maybe shopping Bledsoe around again, in order to get additional cap space or to match salary-in trades.


The easiest thing to do would be to progress with the current lineup unchanged, but McD surely is not the type.
I really think he wanted to clear out the bad seeds from last year as well as bringing in mature veterans that are committed to winning.

If Suns go ahead with no additional changes, they will be competitive. In 2016 off-season, the biggest FA is Durant. I think he will look to partner up with a team with the ideal "Beta" star or two.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#94 » by bwgood77 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:31 pm

It's bad luck when you pick someone else instead of us as a FA. McDyess blows out knee. Nash pinches nerve. Amare deteriorates. LeBron doesn't count because he seriously never considered us.

I'd hate to see you get hurt LaMarcus, but the trend isn't pretty.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#95 » by tgtm_24 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:33 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Before free agency started, Aldridge wasn't even on my radar as a Suns realistic target. I even had a poll in the Around the NBA thread with the 10 most likely (imo) scenarios of where the top free agents would end up. I had SA or Dallas in every possible scenario for him.

Just knowing that we were firmly ahead of LA, NY, Houston AND Dallas is something I don't think I can ever recall thinking as a Suns fan. I think McD is top notch in courting guys and drafting. He has made a few mistakes over the last year but he has quickly fixed them. I'm really impressed with this offseason. We were MUCH closer to getting Aldridge than I ever would have dreamed.

I don't think there are many more savvy front offices at this point.


That may fly for this off-season, but if we stand pat and hold our space for next off-season an finish an honourable second in trying to secure a prized FA, then what? So far the FO, has put things in motion but has had to change paths relatively quickly into those decisions, (Thomas signing, MoBros separation). Sure not all of the outcome was their own doing, but right here, right now, what do we have to show for our last 5 seasons?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#96 » by bwgood77 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:35 pm

SkinnyOMiller wrote:I say the Suns dream big and go all in for Durant next offseason, let the recruitment start now............someone take him out golfing!


I think he is in OKC for his entire career unless he just really doesn't like playing for Donovan., which is unlikely.

I think one guy who we still might be able to eventually get is Love. If anything goes wrong there, or even if Kyrie gets injured, I could see Kieff and Bledsoe for Love.

Now that he is under contract for so long, it is finally not risky in going all in for him, and he still is the perfect fit.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#97 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:35 pm

Flying Colors wrote:
SkinnyOMiller wrote:I say the Suns dream big and go all in for Durant next offseason, let the recruitment start now............someone take him out golfing!

i can't wait for Suns to be 2nd or 3rd place again for the third year in a row :cry:



You'd think that sooner or later they have to break through with someone.

Al Horford and Gallinari are other possibilities as well. Gallinari in particular would be a good fit.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#98 » by Fo-Real » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:37 pm

I would love to know if the Suns have talked with and settled Kief down. I know he and Marcus are together and will be out of town for a month. Really would like it to be public where we are with him before suggestions goinf ahead.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#99 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:38 pm

tgtm_24 wrote:
That may fly for this off-season, but if we stand pat and hold our space for next off-season an finish an honourable second in trying to secure a prized FA, then what? So far the FO, has put things in motion but has had to change paths relatively quickly into those decisions, (Thomas signing, MoBros separation). Sure not all of the outcome was their own doing, but right here, right now, what do we have to show for our last 5 seasons?





Why do people keep bringing up 5 seasons.............McDonough has been here for 2 so far. Its clear that the Blanks era was a complete and utter disaster, they rectified that by bringing in some competent people, they just need time to get this roster together, from the day that McDonough got here to today, the talent on the roster is substantially better with lots of nice young pieces.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#100 » by bwgood77 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:39 pm

tgtm_24 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Before free agency started, Aldridge wasn't even on my radar as a Suns realistic target. I even had a poll in the Around the NBA thread with the 10 most likely (imo) scenarios of where the top free agents would end up. I had SA or Dallas in every possible scenario for him.

Just knowing that we were firmly ahead of LA, NY, Houston AND Dallas is something I don't think I can ever recall thinking as a Suns fan. I think McD is top notch in courting guys and drafting. He has made a few mistakes over the last year but he has quickly fixed them. I'm really impressed with this offseason. We were MUCH closer to getting Aldridge than I ever would have dreamed.

I don't think there are many more savvy front offices at this point.


That may fly for this off-season, but if we stand pat and hold our space for next off-season an finish an honourable second in trying to secure a prized FA, then what? So far the FO, has put things in motion but has had to change paths relatively quickly into those decisions, (Thomas signing, MoBros separation). Sure not all of the outcome was their own doing, but right here, right now, what do we have to show for our last 5 seasons?


Well big name FAs VERY rarely change teams. There are usually only 2-4 per year that are free agents and maybe 1-2 change teams. I think it depends on how Warren, Len and Booker turn out. But I'm not disappointed in any of those guys so far. I think most of the trades have been solid too, if not all of them. The Knight one was the riskiest, but that remains to be seen. It's just too early to tell how good Most of McD's picks and that trade was...all the other trades were solid imo.

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