Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[Wormwood74]

Facts:

1. There's no one left in free agency that can get us into the playoffs

2. The Knight / Bledsoe backcourt was pretty bad in what time the did play together. (Note: none of this time to gel stuff, Bledsoe and Goran clicked very quickly)

3. The talent level on this team is pretty bad. No all star level talent, and only a few above average players. Kieff is not starter quality for a playoff team. Neither is Tucker. Two of our three "best" players play the same position, and then they're only above average. Not great. Not all-star material. Neither is a distributor, and Bledsoe doesn't really have 3 point range.

4. I'm seeing a lot of trade ideas. None of them make me think that they will lead us to the playoffs. Most of them look like salary dumps.

5. With the playoffs being a non-possibility, the best thing we can do with this season is give plenty of time to Booker, Warren, and Goodwin. Roll the ball out there, lose a lot, hope for the best in next year's lottery. Look at ways to clear space for next year's FA market, including said salary dumps.

[lilfishi22]

Facts:
2. The Knight / Bledsoe backcourt was pretty bad in what time the did play together. (Note: none of this time to gel stuff, Bledsoe and Goran clicked very quickly)

Goran and Bledsoe had the benefit of a full training camp to gel

[King4Day]

I get sick coming to this forum since Aldridge picked the Spurs.

Maybe Knight and Bledsoe aren't Dragic/Bledsoe. They need time. Who cares how other players performed together for the first time.
How do people think making horrible trades will improve our future? Favors would be great but someone mentioned trading Bledsoe, Kieff, and picks for him? How bad do we think our players are and how good do you think he is? They haven't made the playoffs with him. Yet people rank on Love and Aldridge for lack of playoffs or low playoff success..

Why does hardly anyone want to just run with this team and see what happens. Then tweak it next offseason.
Goodwin and Warren will see minutes this season. That alone is exciting.

[Saberestar]

Calm down everyone, our savior is here!

Brent Petway is leaving Olympiacos and his alternatives may include even a return to the States. The American forward has already some Euroleague options, but he is about to be added in the Suns summer league team.

Karsiyaka seems to be the team most interested on him, however Petway after two seasons in the top European level will also try to get a chance in the NBA. That’s why he is ready to play even in the summer league in order to prove that he has matured and turn some heads.

http://www.eurohoops.net/2015/07/featured/107857

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The negativity on this forum has reached absurd levels. The roster has more balance. We should see internal improvement from Len and Warren. We've added Chandler and ditched Mook. We had a good draft. We don't have any bad contracts. Bottom line: we've had an excellent offseason. Carey and I had the same thought on this -- perhaps LMA was just a pretense, an excuse to do things that would upset our guys (trading Mook, putting Len back on the bench). If you look at it that way, then we've just made huge, positive strides. I'm interested in seeing what a team that isn't overloaded at the guard spots, and whose SF spot isn't suffocated, and whose C position is both strong and deep, can do.

SAS has just extended its window indefinitely, which sucks. But I don't like DAL's moves, and LAC and POR should take a tumble out of the playoffs (and what does that lead to for LAC? does Griffin get moved? could we put a package together?). This is the way I see the West:

Tier 1 (Home Court): GSW, OKC, SAS, HOU
Tier 2 (Playoff Teams): MEM, UTA, NO
Tier 3 (On the Cusp): PHX, DAL, LAC
Tier 4 (Out): SAC, POR, LAL, MIN, DEN

It seems to me like everyone's timeline is distorted. It takes time to build, and IMO, we've done a very good job accumulating young talent. But everyone wants this to be done yesterday. Chill, people. We're still on the ascent. Besides, we've just been promised to see the one thing any discerning fan should want to see: MOAR TJ.

[GrantHill]

Gallinari is definitley my guy. Remember how well he played before his inury? The Knicks were a very good team with him at the 4 and a pick&roll guy (Amar'e) at the 5. I would see if I could trade Markieff for him, either directly or in a three team deal. Speaking of STAT, I would definitley welcome him back as a fourth big off the bench. As others have said, he would add a needed scorer off the bench.

PG: Eric Bledsoe / Archie Goodwin
SG: Brandon Knight / Devon Booker
SF: P.J. Tucker / T.J. Warren
PF: Danilo Gallinari / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jon Leuer
C: Tyson Chandler / Alex Len

I really really like that team. Defense, rebounding, pick&rolls, run and gun, isolation scoring.

[Saberestar]

Gallinari is definitley my guy. Remember how well he played before his inury? The Knicks were a very good team with him at the 4 and a pick&roll guy (Amar'e) at the 5. I would see if I could trade Markieff for him, either directly or in a three team deal. Speaking of STAT, I would definitley welcome him back as a fourth big off the bench. As others have said, he would add a needed scorer off the bench.

PG: Eric Bledsoe / Archie Goodwin
SG: Brandon Knight / Devon Booker
SF: P.J. Tucker / T.J. Warren
PF: Danilo Gallinari / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jon Leuer
C: Tyson Chandler / Alex Len

I really really like that team. Defense, rebounding, pick&rolls, run and gun, isolation scoring.

I like it. I think it's a great idea.

[Mr-Al]

Gallinari is definitley my guy. Remember how well he played before his inury? The Knicks were a very good team with him at the 4 and a pick&roll guy (Amar'e) at the 5. I would see if I could trade Markieff for him, either directly or in a three team deal. Speaking of STAT, I would definitley welcome him back as a fourth big off the bench. As others have said, he would add a needed scorer off the bench.

PG: Eric Bledsoe / Archie Goodwin
SG: Brandon Knight / Devon Booker
SF: P.J. Tucker / T.J. Warren
PF: Danilo Gallinari / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jon Leuer
C: Tyson Chandler / Alex Len

I really really like that team. Defense, rebounding, pick&rolls, run and gun, isolation scoring.

Gallinari is expiring, so it's not that big of a deal and he's only 26. Problem is that he's somewhat of a shell of his former self, it doesn't hurt to see whether he can step his game back up I guess

That PF lineup is absolutely paper thin on defense and rim protection too.

And with Gallo expiring and Stat being old as ****, there might not be a future there

[Mr-Al]

How do people think making horrible trades will improve our future? Favors would be great but someone mentioned trading Bledsoe, Kieff, and picks for him? How bad do we think our players are and how good do you think he is? They haven't made the playoffs with him. Yet people rank on Love and Aldridge for lack of playoffs or low playoff success..
.

Oh no, you mean Favors hasn't carried a team starring Dante Exum and Trey Burke at PG into the playoffs? Guess he's a bust

I'm pretty sure the whole universe agrees that value wise Favors >>> Bledsoe

and if UTA asking for Kieff is keeping that deal from going through, you're telling me you'd turn Favors down?

Okay.

You want the Cav's 2016 pick, cool you got it.

And Utah probably still doesn't even pick up the phone

[Mr-Al]

Tier 1 (Home Court): GSW, OKC, SAS, HOU
Tier 2 (Playoff Teams): MEM, UTA, NO
Tier 3 (On the Cusp): PHX, DAL, LAC
Tier 4 (Out): SAC, POR, LAL, MIN, DEN

Dallas and LAC are still ahead of us until further notice

Wildcard w/ Sac is Cousins, guy could single-handedly carry the team into the 8th seed

I have no idea how well we do, it all depends on how improved Warren, Len, Bled, and Knight are

Could be anywhere from 7th to 11th

[gaspar]

I really don't understand the infatuation with Gallinari.

1. He's a small forward.
2. He has an $12M expiring contract.
3. He's had some health issues every season but one.
4. He's a career 14pts/4reb/16PER player. In his best season he averaged 16 points and 5 rebounds (3 years ago).

Markieff>>Gallo.

[Saberestar]

The negativity on this forum has reached absurd levels. The roster has more balance. We should see internal improvement from Len and Warren. We've added Chandler and ditched Mook. We had a good draft. We don't have any bad contracts. Bottom line: we've had an excellent offseason. Carey and I had the same thought on this -- perhaps LMA was just a pretense, an excuse to do things that would upset our guys (trading Mook, putting Len back on the bench). If you look at it that way, then we've just made huge, positive strides. I'm interested in seeing what a team that isn't overloaded at the guard spots, and whose SF spot isn't suffocated, and whose C position is both strong and deep, can do.

SAS has just extended its window indefinitely, which sucks. But I don't like DAL's moves, and LAC and POR should take a tumble out of the playoffs (and what does that lead to for LAC? does Griffin get moved? could we put a package together?). This is the way I see the West:

Tier 1 (Home Court): GSW, OKC, SAS, HOU
Tier 2 (Playoff Teams): MEM, UTA, NO
Tier 3 (On the Cusp): PHX, DAL, LAC
Tier 4 (Out): SAC, POR, LAL, MIN, DEN

It seems to me like everyone's timeline is distorted. It takes time to build, and IMO, we've done a very good job accumulating young talent. But everyone wants this to be done yesterday. Chill, people. We're still on the ascent. Besides, we've just been promised to see the one thing any discerning fan should want to see: MOAR TJ.

It would be an "excellent" offseason with Aldridge on our roster right now.
I think it's a GOOD offseason, but not more than that. I like the signing of Chandler.

[Saberestar]

I really don't understand the infatuation with Gallinari.

1. He's a small forward.
2. He has an $12M expiring contract.
3. He's had some health issues every season but one.
4. He's a career 14pts/4reb/16PER player. In his best season he averaged 16 points and 5 rebounds (3 years ago).

Markieff>>Gallo.

I think this is more about the fit. With Gallo healthy ( insert our medical staff here) you have an amazing floor spacer for Bledsoe, Knight and Warren.
Tyson and Len can cover some of his deficiencies like a rebounder/shot blocker and you have to consider that he is not worse than Markieff on those areas, they are close. Gallo is even bigger and he is versatile enough to play SF / PF depending on match ups.

[King4Day]

How do people think making horrible trades will improve our future? Favors would be great but someone mentioned trading Bledsoe, Kieff, and picks for him? How bad do we think our players are and how good do you think he is? They haven't made the playoffs with him. Yet people rank on Love and Aldridge for lack of playoffs or low playoff success..
.

Oh no, you mean Favors hasn't carried a team starring Dante Exum and Trey Burke at PG into the playoffs? Guess he's a bust

I'm pretty sure the whole universe agrees that value wise Favors >>> Bledsoe

and if UTA asking for Kieff is keeping that deal from going through, you're telling me you'd turn Favors down?

Okay.

You want the Cav's 2016 pick, cool you got it.

And Utah probably still doesn't even pick up the phone

He's not a game changer. Maybe he has the potential but if so and if you don't think our players are that great, than why would they? Anthony Davis led his mediocre team to the playoffs. Utah arguably has more talent.
Utah would hang up the phone because they have no need for a PG. And why get rid of Favors if he's elite and take back a lesser PF?

[Mr-Al]

I really don't understand the infatuation with Gallinari.

1. He's a small forward.
2. He has an $12M expiring contract.
3. He's had some health issues every season but one.
4. He's a career 14pts/4reb/16PER player. In his best season he averaged 16 points and 5 rebounds (3 years ago).

Markieff>>Gallo.

There is truth to this

If he wasn't expiring and wasn't plagued with injuries, it might be a different story

Giving Kieff up for that risk is probably a bad deal, Gallo doesn't move the needle all that much

[Mr-Al]

How do people think making horrible trades will improve our future? Favors would be great but someone mentioned trading Bledsoe, Kieff, and picks for him? How bad do we think our players are and how good do you think he is? They haven't made the playoffs with him. Yet people rank on Love and Aldridge for lack of playoffs or low playoff success..
.

Oh no, you mean Favors hasn't carried a team starring Dante Exum and Trey Burke at PG into the playoffs? Guess he's a bust

I'm pretty sure the whole universe agrees that value wise Favors >>> Bledsoe

and if UTA asking for Kieff is keeping that deal from going through, you're telling me you'd turn Favors down?

Okay.

You want the Cav's 2016 pick, cool you got it.

And Utah probably still doesn't even pick up the phone

He's not a game changer. Maybe he has the potential but if so and if you don't think our players are that great, than why would they? Anthony Davis led his mediocre team to the playoffs. Utah arguably has more talent.
Utah would hang up the phone because they have no need for a PG. And why get rid of Favors if he's elite and take back a lesser PF?

So now we're comparing Derrick Favors... to Anthony Davis. ok dude

Let's pretend the second half of the Jazz's season never happened

Thanks for stating the obvious that UTA doesn't do this

I **** literally just repeated that they probably doesn't even pick up the phone

Then you said it was a bad deal for us

Which I obviously thought was totally wrong

[gaspar]

How do people think making horrible trades will improve our future? Favors would be great but someone mentioned trading Bledsoe, Kieff, and picks for him? How bad do we think our players are and how good do you think he is? They haven't made the playoffs with him. Yet people rank on Love and Aldridge for lack of playoffs or low playoff success..
.

Oh no, you mean Favors hasn't carried a team starring Dante Exum and Trey Burke at PG into the playoffs? Guess he's a bust

I'm pretty sure the whole universe agrees that value wise Favors >>> Bledsoe

and if UTA asking for Kieff is keeping that deal from going through, you're telling me you'd turn Favors down?

Okay.

You want the Cav's 2016 pick, cool you got it.

And Utah probably still doesn't even pick up the phone

Oh, stop acting like Favors is some kind of a god. He's not even the best player on his team and the Suns led by Bledsoe and Keef finished the last 2 seasons with a better record than the Jazz with the great Derrick Favors as their 2nd best player.

And why exactly is it so outrageous to think that these 2 players have a similar trade value?

Bledsoe 17.0 pts, 6.1 ast, 5.2 reb, 1.6 stl, 0.6 blk, .555 TS%
Favors 16.0 pts, 8.2 reb, 1.5 ast, 1.9 blk, 0.9 stl, .558 TS%

[Sunsdeuce]

I don't understand why we can't simply look at the fact [img]that%20Eric%20Bledsoe%20and%20Brandon%20Knight%20are%202%20of%20the%20top%20young%20PGs%20in%20basketball[/img] and judge them based on the fact that it's pretty reasonable to assume they will find a way to be more effective together than their less-talented competition.

[Sunsdeuce]

I don't understand why we can't simply look at the fact that Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight are 2 of the top young PGs in basketball and judge them based on the fact that it's pretty reasonable to assume they will find a way to be more effective together than their less-talented competition.

[Mr-Al]

How do people think making horrible trades will improve our future? Favors would be great but someone mentioned trading Bledsoe, Kieff, and picks for him? How bad do we think our players are and how good do you think he is? They haven't made the playoffs with him. Yet people rank on Love and Aldridge for lack of playoffs or low playoff success..
.

Oh no, you mean Favors hasn't carried a team starring Dante Exum and Trey Burke at PG into the playoffs? Guess he's a bust

I'm pretty sure the whole universe agrees that value wise Favors >>> Bledsoe

and if UTA asking for Kieff is keeping that deal from going through, you're telling me you'd turn Favors down?

Okay.

You want the Cav's 2016 pick, cool you got it.

And Utah probably still doesn't even pick up the phone

Oh, stop acting like Favors is some kind of a god. He's not even the best player on his team and the Suns led by Bledsoe and Keef finished the last 2 seasons with a better record than the Jazz with the great Derrick Favors as their 2nd best player.

And why exactly is it so outrageous to think that these 2 players have a similar trade value?

Bledsoe 17.0 pts, 6.1 ast, 5.2 reb, 1.6 stl, 0.6 blk, .555 TS%
Favors 16.0 pts, 8.2 reb, 1.5 ast, 1.9 blk, 0.9 stl, .558 TS%

Is this a serious question?

really?

You're comparing the stats of two players who play competently different positions?

I can't believe you're serious

One is a 25 year old point guard playing the most saturated position in the league

The other is a 23 year power forward playing one of the most sought after positions in the league

I'm sure enormous, young two-way power forwards are as easy to find as Eric Bledsoe

Lets ignore the other stats too, like how how Favors destroys Bledsoe in terms of offensive win-shares, defensive win-shares, and PER

Lets ignore their per36 minute stats too

But I already feel a bit more stupid comparing the stats of a 6'1 guy to a younger 6'10 player with a 7'4" wingspan so I need to stop