How do the pieces of the puzzle fit together?

[nolimit0820]

I thought RIPpizzaguy's post on rotation was worth a new thread. SO here is what I think:

I think 9 players will get the bulk of the minutes assuming healthy and competitive game. Casspi being the 9th man.

I don't think Gay will play as much Pf as originally mentioned simply because we have 3 bigs that can all really play and therefore need adequate minutes. Also DC will get significant minutes at both guard spots. Marco and Ben will get time at both perimeter spots. WCS will earn minutes on this team under Karl. No doubt that he makes an exception with this rookie.

Rondo (30)/DC (18)
McClemore (18)/Belinelli (22)/DC (8)
Gay (26)/Casspi (12)/McClemore (10)
Cousins (20)/WCS (18)/Gay (10)
Kofous (26)/cousins (16)/WCS (6)







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[SacKingZZZ]

We'll have to see if they add another SF.

My preference and hope is that Cauley-Stein wins that PF spot. As of now I don't really see a team capable of playing small without it coming at the expense of capable defense and/or being too small. That depends on whether or not Rondo can rise back from the dead on that end.

Rondo/DC
Belinelli/Ben/DC
Gay/Anderson
WCS/Gay
Cuz/Koufos

If Willie can shoot that's a pretty complimentary team. You can switch fairly well as well because Rondo can guard bigger players, and Willie can guard smaller players.

[nolimit0820]

I agree with your starting line up, but Idk if that's what Karl will do on the front line. I think he will try Kostas at C. However, the idea of DMC guarding the four is not appealing to me at all. I think Karl will go with a proven vet though before he relinquishes the starting spot to a rookie.

Do you think the DC/rondo backcourt will work? Also, do you expect Marco and Ben playing with one another often? I think so given they're arguable our two best shooters. I can see line ups or Rondo/Marco/Ben/Gay/Cousins as our most successful small ball line up


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[City of Trees]

Koufus and Cousins starting together isn't a good idea.... We went from talking about starting Gay at the 4 to having Koufus added to the front court starting line up. Talk about changing the way you play! Karl used Koufus off the bench before, I anticipate a similar role.


Karl believes the game is going small, wants to use two pg's, and has said there isn't a need for a dominant Center. All more signs Karl won't start Koufus.
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[nolimit0820]

Totally agree about KK needing to come off the bench.

I have no clue why he would sign here unless given a starting role. Why would he come knowing he would back up the best center in the league and battle with a 7ft lotto pick who I think will play more center than expected. I doubt WCS gets the majority of his minutes at the 4 spot. At first yes, but eventually I see him being very effective as the sole big.

I think the market was stronger for him than perceived.


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[SacKingZZZ]

I agree with your starting line up, but Idk if that's what Karl will do on the front line. I think he will try Kostas at C. However, the idea of DMC guarding the four is not appealing to me at all. I think Karl will go with a proven vet though before he relinquishes the starting spot to a rookie.

Do you think the DC/rondo backcourt will work? Also, do you expect Marco and Ben playing with one another often? I think so given they're arguable our two best shooters. I can see line ups or Rondo/Marco/Ben/Gay/Cousins as our most successful small ball line up


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Yeah, you don't want Cuz chasing down stretch 4's. Also, Cuz was one of the top interior defensive bigs, and while Koufos was very good, Cuz was dominant at times. That would be a downgrade at center. I do think Karl is going to go small and I have some concerns that might mean Rondo and Collison starting with Belinelli at SF. I guess it would depend on what they plan on doing when considering how effective it would be defensively. They can switch on pick and roll but a good coach will find the mismatch consistently. With a Rondo/Collison backcourt the main concern I have is against the bigger SG's like Harden and Klay. Rondo if committed could maybe handle it though.

[SacKingZZZ]

Totally agree about KK needing to come off the bench.

I have no clue why he would sign here unless given a starting role. Why would he come knowing he would back up the best center in the league and battle with a 7ft lotto pick who I think will play more center than expected. I doubt WCS gets the majority of his minutes at the 4 spot. At first yes, but eventually I see him being very effective as the sole big.

I think the market was stronger for him than perceived.


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I'm not sure there was much of a market for backup centers at the time. Look what Biyombo got. Koufos more than doubled what he got. Koufos is a good, solid player but lets not act like he's a franchise level player or anything. On what team with money that could pay him what the Kings did would he start on? I would hope during preseason Karl experiments with he and Cuz together but to even give him the idea that he's starting next to Cuz would be beyond premature so I hope they didn't promise anything.

I think Willie Cauley-Stein can definitely guard some centers but with the way this team looked with no size off the bench last year, I'd hate to see that repeated this year. Cauley-Stein has already expressed doubts about playing center in the NBA.

[blind prophet]

I definitely think DC should be on the floor every moment we have a few bench players in, we need his scoring when we take out Rudy and Cousins. Then it comes to matchups when he plays with Rondo at the same time, it may happen a lot one game then not much at all for a few.

We will have a better idea with WCS after summer league. Ideally I want him starting now that Thompson is gone, I want most of his minutes when Cousins is on the floor to keep Cuz out of foul trouble, and also when Rudy and Cousins are on the floor to protect his lack of offensive game.

[bleeds_purple]

We'll have to see if we bring in Smith and resign Casspi before we can accurately predict a rotation.

But if Smith comes in either Rudy won't be playing the 4 or WCS will basically be cut from the rotation. 5 guys playing PF/C is hard to manage.

[LightTheBeam]

I have no problem with that rotation either! My hopes are Cousins and Koufas end up fitting well together in bigger lineups. The great thing is we are truly versitile with our lineups, we can play big, small, fast, 2 pgs and we have real depth. We have added legit size, shooting, passing and are starting to show a balance.

I do definitely want to see us at least expiriment more small ball. Either way I'm finally excited for this team! Cousins/WCS/Koufas/gay/casspi/bellenli/mclemore/rondo/collison

That's 9 legit players who can all play.

[KF10]

If Koufos & Marc Gasol were able to play together, why can't Koufos & Cousins?

Some (great) insight of the Marc & Koufos pairing:

Twin towers: Playing Marc Gasol and Kosta Koufos together

[76ciology]

Rondo/Cousins = Breakdown the defense and get guys open looks and anchor your defense
Mclemore/Casspi/Bellineli = shooters
WCS/Collison/Gay = Supporting cast

[Fola314]

I hate to be a pessimist, but if WCS starts I fully expect him to be in early foul trouble nearly every game just because he is a rookie. I think we need to add a solid 4th big guy to the roster. Maybe Reggie Evans will be back or something.

I think Ben starts, but could see less minutes than collison and Marco many games.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Koufos & Marc Gasol were able to play together, why can't Koufos & Cousins?

Some (great) insight of the Marc & Koufos pairing:

Twin towers: Playing Marc Gasol and Kosta Koufos together

I can't remember when or who it was, but wasn't there a Grizz fan on here not too long ago suggesting that Koufos and Cuz wouldn't work?. I guess it would all depend on how many minutes it's for but if Koufos plans to play any more than his career numbers he'll have to play with Cousins some. If they want to see if Koufos and Cuz can play together preseason would be the time.

In reading that article there are differences still when you get to the part where they have 3 shooters for spacing. In that scenario if Rondo is at PG you are replacing Conley with him, Conley is a career 37% 3 point shooter. Any good coach is forcing the shot from Rondo if Cuz is posting up in that scenario.

[SacKingZZZ]

I hate to be a pessimist, but if WCS starts I fully expect him to be in early foul trouble nearly every game just because he is a rookie. I think we need to add a solid 4th big guy to the roster. Maybe Reggie Evans will be back or something.

I think Ben starts, but could see less minutes than collison and Marco many games.

We'll see but I wouldn't expect it that often because of the way he plays defense. He's a space defender mostly who slides his feet and tracks his man. If there's one thing he's elite at it's that. There will of course be moments where he'll probably test a guard on a switch or two and create body contact but he's fairly fundamental in his defensive footwork.

[blind prophet]

I'm worried about the spacing some if Rondo and WCS both start. Hopefully DC plays a lot of minutes with the starters.

[benchmobbin02]

I'm worried about the spacing some if Rondo and WCS both start. Hopefully DC plays a lot of minutes with the starters.

They won't. Koufos will start most games and Collison or Beli jump in as starters if we go small along with DMC Gay and Ben

[KF10]

I can't remember when or who it was, but wasn't there a Grizz fan on here not too long ago suggesting that Koufos and Cuz wouldn't work?. I guess it would all depend on how many minutes it's for but if Koufos plans to play any more than his career numbers he'll have to play with Cousins some. If they want to see if Koufos and Cuz can play together preseason would be the time.

In reading that article there are differences still when you get to the part where they have 3 shooters for spacing. In that scenario if Rondo is at PG you are replacing Conley with him, Conley is a career 37% 3 point shooter. Any good coach is forcing the shot from Rondo if Cuz is posting up in that scenario.

Don't remember the Grizz fan.

I don't doubt that there are legitimate concerns about the Koufos & Cousins pairing and there is, maybe, a good chance it won't work well enough to compensate the concerns & deficiencies they will have but I don't think it would be a complete failure, though. Many teams can't match up with that pairing due to the sheer size that both players exhibits. Opposing teams will be punished if they use a smaller player against the Kings front court. That said, if they have a stretch-big, the match-up would be different and it would, most likely, not end well for the Kings, imo. I've been going back and forth with starting line-up. If they really mean what they said about Rudy ("you will see him more at 4"), start him at the 4, then! Lets see if the Rudy-at-4 works with good success. I like the idea of bringing Koufos in when Cousins needs a breather & bringing WCS in when Rudy needs a breather too (or when Karl moves Rudy from PF to SF, in-game).

After the signing of Rondo, I think this "Rudy-at-4" is going to be more important than we previously have thought. The question is, who is the starting 3? Can it be Casspi? Or do we sacrifice some size and go with Belinelli? I would like to think it would be Casspi starting the 3 spot. He looked good late last season at that position -- especially when Karl was at helm.

Another question is, is the 2-PG setup a legitimate idea? Do we sacrifice BMac to get Collison into the starting line-up? I'm not sure if I would like that.

[SmellingColors]

I can't remember when or who it was, but wasn't there a Grizz fan on here not too long ago suggesting that Koufos and Cuz wouldn't work?. I guess it would all depend on how many minutes it's for but if Koufos plans to play any more than his career numbers he'll have to play with Cousins some. If they want to see if Koufos and Cuz can play together preseason would be the time.

In reading that article there are differences still when you get to the part where they have 3 shooters for spacing. In that scenario if Rondo is at PG you are replacing Conley with him, Conley is a career 37% 3 point shooter. Any good coach is forcing the shot from Rondo if Cuz is posting up in that scenario.

Don't remember the Grizz fan.

I don't doubt that there are legitimate concerns about the Koufos & Cousins pairing and there is, maybe, a good chance it won't work well enough to compensate the concerns & deficiencies they will have but I don't think it would be a complete failure, though. Many teams can't match up with that pairing due to the sheer size that both players exhibits. Opposing teams will be punished if they use a smaller player against the Kings front court. That said, if they have a stretch-big, the match-up would be different and it would, most likely, not end well for the Kings, imo. I've been going back and forth with starting line-up. If they really mean what they said about Rudy ("you will see him more at 4"), start him at the 4, then! Lets see if the Rudy-at-4 works with good success. I like the idea of bringing Koufos in when Cousins needs a breather & bringing WCS in when Rudy needs a breather too (or when Karl moves Rudy from PF to SF, in-game).

After the signing of Rondo, I think this "Rudy-at-4" is going to be more important than we previously have thought. The question is, who is the starting 3? Can it be Casspi? Or do we sacrifice some size and go with Belinelli? I would like to think it would be Casspi starting the 3 spot. He looked good late last season at that position -- especially when Karl was at helm.

Another question is, is the 2-PG setup a legitimate idea? Do we sacrifice BMac to get Collison into the starting line-up? I'm not sure if I would like that.

I'm having similar concerns myself. I don't like Koufos starting. I think having him come of the bench is a much better idea especially with Rondo at the starting PG. That being said, I think what's cool about our roster is that we can change the starting lineup based on the team. Grizzlies probably see us starting WCS/Koufos next to Cousins. Warriors probably see us starting Gay at 4.

Either way, we need another wing for our depth. Dorell Wright would make the most sense and that allows us to start Gay at the 4 without too heavily compromising our bench. Gay/Wright/Casspi with Anderson in spots seems like a solid wing rotation to me.

[KF10]

I'm having similar concerns myself. I don't like Koufos starting. I think having him come of the bench is a much better idea especially with Rondo at the starting PG. That being said, I think what's cool about our roster is that we can change the starting lineup based on the team. Grizzlies probably see us starting WCS/Koufos next to Cousins. Warriors probably see us starting Gay at 4.

Either way, we need another wing for our depth. Dorell Wright would make the most sense and that allows us to start Gay at the 4 without too heavily compromising our bench. Gay/Wright/Casspi with Anderson in spots seems like a solid wing rotation to me.

Yeah, I like the versatility and the interchangeable pieces that we have on roster too.

I'm more and more in favor of another wing -- Dorell Wright rather than wanting another SF/PF player in Josh Smith. That would mean burying WCS in the bench and I don't want that (& many Kings fans don't either).