PC Board OT thread

[Moonbeam]

I don't really have an issue with LMA taking his time. This is his last big contract and he wants to make sure he makes the best decision he can. First time he's had this opportunity. Way too much worrying about his "legacy". As Dirk always says -- Worry about that when you are done playing.

Dude has every right to make as many visits and talk to as many teams as he wants. This is a major life decision for him.

Agreed. I don't have any resentment, though I'm obviously disappointing noted that he did not stay in Portland.

[Doctor MJ]

If I'm LaMarcus Aldridge, the last 10 years of history and all the titles with Duncan are in a large sense a negative. If I sign with the Spurs and they don't win as Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker slide into gentle retirement, I'm the failure that couldn't keep the DRob, Duncan tradition alive. If I go to the Suns and they don't win, I'm still in the pantheon with Westphal, Davis, KJ, Barkley, Nash, Marion, etc. of great Suns stars.

Well first let me emphasize: My big beef with Aldridge is his anger toward Phoenix and then him letting 2 teams sacrifice their teams to get him. To me he's clearly showing himself to be an asshat.

Beyond that, my view is shaped on the fact that I don't really respect Aldridge on the level that he thinks he is, and I suppose what you think. Yes, if Aldridge doesn't win a title but leads the team to deep playoff runs he'll be in the Suns pantheon. But what happens if he goes to Phoenix and only ever leads them to more mediocrity?

ftr, that is exactly what I expect to happen in Phoenix unless Bledsoe or someone else emerges as a true pantheon level player. Aldridge is a very nice player but he's not someone who is going to make a lottery team elite, so I expect that if he goes to the Suns he'll become a cautionary tale more than anything else. He could have stayed in Portland and been part of their pantheon. He could have gone to the Spurs and helped them win more titles. He's choosing to go as a mercenary to somewhere irrelevant instead.

Anger toward Phoenix? Did I miss something?

Sorry toward Portland I mean.

[Texas Chuck]

Doc,

you can't seriously blame LMA for the Suns and Spurs making rosters moves with the idea of creating cap space for him. That's on them.

[bondom34]

That I agree w/ Chuck on entirely. I don't like the idea of a free agent putting on a tour, but can't blame him for teams doing that to get him, that's on them.

[sp6r=underrated]

Sacramento’s front office is operating without a long-term plan and their signing of Rondo to a one year deal is highly illogical. Rondo has never really recovered from the torn ACL, has a questionable attitude and players with his skill-set age very poorly. A contender could maybe justify taking a flyer on a similar player but a rebuilding team should avoid him at all costs.

A Rondo resurgence would only result in him leaving after one year when even at his best he wasn’t capable of getting this team to the playoffs. The more likely scenario is that Rondo will be the same player he has been the last few years which is a below average point guard with a bad attitude. Sacramento already has issues with Cousins and Karl has a long history of feuding with willful players. Sacramento would have been far better off taking a chance on one of the second or third tier young free agents or sitting free agency out altogether.

Does anyone support the Rondo signing?

[Doctor MJ]

Doc,

you can't seriously blame LMA for the Suns and Spurs making rosters moves with the idea of creating cap space for him. That's on them.

Well there are a few things here:

I think Aldridge's anger toward the Blazers is a real thing, and I can't imagine how it can be justified.
I really don't understand why he even was considering the Suns at all given that he was so frustrated by the Blazers.

These actions already have me feeling like Aldridge is a head case. Maybe over time I'll change my mind, but that's it seems to me now.

As far as it being "on them", well obviously it is, but I think you have to ask how such things occur.

The reality is that the team in question has to make the move before they can officially sign a player, and that the player in question can therefore always change his mind after the move gets made.

Under what circumstance then do we think the Spurs trade Splitter?
1) Aldridge unofficially says he's coming.
2) Aldridge doesn't say those words, but he says very positive things.
3) Aldridge doesn't say very positive things, but nor does he say negatives and in general the meeting has good vibes.
4) Aldridge says negative things.

It's clear cut that Aldridge said either (1) or (2) to the Spurs, right? Obviously if he said (1) and then went somewhere else, that's GOT to be also on Aldridge, right?

So are you saying then that if Aldridge does (2), and then signs elsewhere that that says nothing about his integrity? I can't get behind that.

Of course he did sign with the Spurs...but only after he met with other teams and got another team to make trades for him. While the Spurs will take that, if you're them, don't you have to think you dodged a bullet there specifically because you thought Aldridge previously indicated he was coming to you, but then clearly had not made any such decision yet?

I mean, how else could this have played out realistically?

Did the Spurs simply decide to jettison Splitter no matter what? Why would they do that?

Did Aldridge say something like "I know this puts you in a tough position, but I can't really get too serious with any franchise that can't immediately make me an offer."? If so, how the hell did the Spurs become the leader in the race basically from the beginning?

None of this is to excuse the teams, and particularly the Suns here. To me the Suns were a mess before, and they are an even bigger mess now. I seriously doubt Aldridge let them on too strongly, but it seems quite clear that they came away with a positive vibe from Aldridge that while they were foolish to jump into bed with, Aldridge shouldn't have conveyed at all. Not when another team is already making a major trade on his behalf.

And again: If the Suns were a serious threat to the Spurs, I'd actually respect Aldridge perhaps making a true cutthroat move in getting them to deplete their roster. But they aren't. There was no strategy here. This happened because the Suns were fools, but it also happened because Aldridge loved all the attention and kept chasing it even after the Spurs had committed something major to him.

If something like this happened in another industry, the hotshot in question would get a bad reputation for it.

[Doctor MJ]

Sacramento’s front office is operating without a long-term plan and their signing of Rondo to a one year deal is highly illogical. Rondo has never really recovered from the torn ACL, has a questionable attitude and players with his skill-set age very poorly. A contender could maybe justify taking a flyer on a similar player but a rebuilding team should avoid him at all costs.

A Rondo resurgence would only result in him leaving after one year when even at his best he wasn’t capable of getting this team to the playoffs. The more likely scenario is that Rondo will be the same player he has been the last few years which is a below average point guard with a bad attitude. Sacramento already has issues with Cousins and Karl has a long history of feuding with willful players. Sacramento would have been far better off taking a chance on one of the second or third tier young free agents or sitting free agency out altogether.

Does anyone support the Rondo signing?

Well more than anything else I agree with your assessment. I've never seen a franchise literally fire a coach for the smart move he made in adapting to his star's needs because the franchise wants a different style of play. It's unspeakably stupid. I'd have respected them a lot more had they simply traded Cousins. That would have been foolish, but it would have at least been coherent.

From that point on, basically nothing makes sense, and I don't even know how to fix the issue given the contradictions the ownership adheres to. It's unreal, both to see, and because the owner in question was hyped early on as a brilliant outside the box thinker from tech.

Given all that, Rondo seems almost besides the point, and makes perhaps as much sense as anything else. "Our team is a mess. This guy used to be good right? Well maybe if we just bring him here he'll be good again, and 1 year is not much of a risk". From a basketball perspective though, it's crystal clear at this point though that it just doesn't make sense to have Rondo on your team at all unless you have a scheme in place he fits well with. He very much is not the "give it a shot, maybe it will work" guy, because with his lack of shooting ability and off-the-charts stubbornness you simply can't expect to use him like a generic point guard.

[E-Balla]

Doc,

you can't seriously blame LMA for the Suns and Spurs making rosters moves with the idea of creating cap space for him. That's on them.

Well there are a few things here:

I think Aldridge's anger toward the Blazers is a real thing, and I can't imagine how it can be justified.
I really don't understand why he even was considering the Suns at all given that he was so frustrated by the Blazers.

These actions already have me feeling like Aldridge is a head case. Maybe over time I'll change my mind, but that's it seems to me now.

As far as it being "on them", well obviously it is, but I think you have to ask how such things occur.

The reality is that the team in question has to make the move before they can officially sign a player, and that the player in question can therefore always change his mind after the move gets made.

Under what circumstance then do we think the Spurs trade Splitter?
1) Aldridge unofficially says he's coming.
2) Aldridge doesn't say those words, but he says very positive things.
3) Aldridge doesn't say very positive things, but nor does he say negatives and in general the meeting has good vibes.
4) Aldridge says negative things.

It's clear cut that Aldridge said either (1) or (2) to the Spurs, right? Obviously if he said (1) and then went somewhere else, that's GOT to be also on Aldridge, right?

So are you saying then that if Aldridge does (2), and then signs elsewhere that that says nothing about his integrity? I can't get behind that.

Of course he did sign with the Spurs...but only after he met with other teams and got another team to make trades for him. While the Spurs will take that, if you're them, don't you have to think you dodged a bullet there specifically because you thought Aldridge previously indicated he was coming to you, but then clearly had not made any such decision yet?

I mean, how else could this have played out realistically?

Did the Spurs simply decide to jettison Splitter no matter what? Why would they do that?

Did Aldridge say something like "I know this puts you in a tough position, but I can't really get too serious with any franchise that can't immediately make me an offer."? If so, how the hell did the Spurs become the leader in the race basically from the beginning?

None of this is to excuse the teams, and particularly the Suns here. To me the Suns were a mess before, and they are an even bigger mess now. I seriously doubt Aldridge let them on too strongly, but it seems quite clear that they came away with a positive vibe from Aldridge that while they were foolish to jump into bed with, Aldridge shouldn't have conveyed at all. Not when another team is already making a major trade on his behalf.

And again: If the Suns were a serious threat to the Spurs, I'd actually respect Aldridge perhaps making a true cutthroat move in getting them to deplete their roster. But they aren't. There was no strategy here. This happened because the Suns were fools, but it also happened because Aldridge loved all the attention and kept chasing it even after the Spurs had committed something major to him.

If something like this happened in another industry, the hotshot in question would get a bad reputation for it.

To add another wrinkle to this people close to the Knicks organization are saying LaMarcus didn't cancel the meeting and Phil did because Phil heard LaMarcus already picked his team and the day of that meeting it was reported that he already picked San Antonio. Now its possible the Suns changed his mind but I doubt that second meeting with LA was to convince him and I doubt he didn't already pick his team.

[Texas Chuck]

Doc,

you can't seriously blame LMA for the Suns and Spurs making rosters moves with the idea of creating cap space for him. That's on them.

Well there are a few things here:

I think Aldridge's anger toward the Blazers is a real thing, and I can't imagine how it can be justified.
I really don't understand why he even was considering the Suns at all given that he was so frustrated by the Blazers.

These actions already have me feeling like Aldridge is a head case. Maybe over time I'll change my mind, but that's it seems to me now.

As far as it being "on them", well obviously it is, but I think you have to ask how such things occur.

The reality is that the team in question has to make the move before they can officially sign a player, and that the player in question can therefore always change his mind after the move gets made.

Under what circumstance then do we think the Spurs trade Splitter?
1) Aldridge unofficially says he's coming.
2) Aldridge doesn't say those words, but he says very positive things.
3) Aldridge doesn't say very positive things, but nor does he say negatives and in general the meeting has good vibes.
4) Aldridge says negative things.

It's clear cut that Aldridge said either (1) or (2) to the Spurs, right? Obviously if he said (1) and then went somewhere else, that's GOT to be also on Aldridge, right?

So are you saying then that if Aldridge does (2), and then signs elsewhere that that says nothing about his integrity? I can't get behind that.

No I don't think it automatically says something about his integrity at all. He can honestly look at multiple situations and really like more than one of them. And honestly say to both the Suns and the Spurs that I'm seriously considering taking your offer without him being some kind of head case or bad guy.

I get you don't like the guy, but I can't get behind your reasoning here at all. Teams take chances like this in FA every year with other players whom I sure give them good vibes and go elsewhere. Now if somebody pulls a Carlos Boozer absolutely question him all you want. But you appear to be singling out LMA here based on I'm not really sure what.

And I really don't understand why you insist that LMA has some sort of obligation to the Spurs just because they pulled the trigger on the Splitter trade.

[sp6r=underrated]

Hopefully it is just a rumor but Cleveland’s interest in Joe Johnson shows management does not understand how to build a team around Lebron or that they do but Lebron is forcing their hand due to his preference for big name players.

Joe Johnson in his prime would have been a poor player to pair with Lebron, Love and Irving as his skill-set is simply unnecessary on a team with a lot of offensive talent. Phoenix never lost a step after subbing him out with Raja Bell. Prime Joe Johnson belonged on defensive oriented teams in which he would be relatively free to operate his brand of stagnant iso ball.

[bondom34]

Sacramento’s front office is operating without a long-term plan and their signing of Rondo to a one year deal is highly illogical. Rondo has never really recovered from the torn ACL, has a questionable attitude and players with his skill-set age very poorly. A contender could maybe justify taking a flyer on a similar player but a rebuilding team should avoid him at all costs.

A Rondo resurgence would only result in him leaving after one year when even at his best he wasn’t capable of getting this team to the playoffs. The more likely scenario is that Rondo will be the same player he has been the last few years which is a below average point guard with a bad attitude. Sacramento already has issues with Cousins and Karl has a long history of feuding with willful players. Sacramento would have been far better off taking a chance on one of the second or third tier young free agents or sitting free agency out altogether.

Does anyone support the Rondo signing?

I don't hate it for a year. If it were any longer I'd hate it, but honestly its a flier. After Wes Matthews turned their offer down I think they did pretty well with Rondo, Koufos, and Bellinelli.

Edit: That said, the front office is still a mess.

[bondom34]

Doc,

you can't seriously blame LMA for the Suns and Spurs making rosters moves with the idea of creating cap space for him. That's on them.

Well there are a few things here:

I think Aldridge's anger toward the Blazers is a real thing, and I can't imagine how it can be justified.
I really don't understand why he even was considering the Suns at all given that he was so frustrated by the Blazers.

These actions already have me feeling like Aldridge is a head case. Maybe over time I'll change my mind, but that's it seems to me now.

As far as it being "on them", well obviously it is, but I think you have to ask how such things occur.

The reality is that the team in question has to make the move before they can officially sign a player, and that the player in question can therefore always change his mind after the move gets made.

Under what circumstance then do we think the Spurs trade Splitter?
1) Aldridge unofficially says he's coming.
2) Aldridge doesn't say those words, but he says very positive things.
3) Aldridge doesn't say very positive things, but nor does he say negatives and in general the meeting has good vibes.
4) Aldridge says negative things.

It's clear cut that Aldridge said either (1) or (2) to the Spurs, right? Obviously if he said (1) and then went somewhere else, that's GOT to be also on Aldridge, right?

So are you saying then that if Aldridge does (2), and then signs elsewhere that that says nothing about his integrity? I can't get behind that.

No I don't think it automatically says something about his integrity at all. He can honestly look at multiple situations and really like more than one of them. And honestly say to both the Suns and the Spurs that I'm seriously considering taking your offer without him being some kind of head case or bad guy.

I get you don't like the guy, but I can't get behind your reasoning here at all. Teams take chances like this in FA every year with other players whom I sure give them good vibes and go elsewhere. Now if somebody pulls a Carlos Boozer absolutely question him all you want. But you appear to be singling out LMA here based on I'm not really sure what.

And I really don't understand why you insist that LMA has some sort of obligation to the Spurs just because they pulled the trigger on the Splitter trade.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a way that saying 2 says anything about Aldridge at all. He left what was basically a job interview as saying "I like it here but I have another meeting". The Spurs made sure they could accomodate him. Similar things happen every year (last year w/ Bosh, other years with multiple free agents). I'm not saying I love how he handled everything but the Spurs and Suns moving guys to get cap space is something that happens every year and that's on them. I still don't love that LMA had what was essentially a free agency tour and don't love that he seemed to give the Lakers a second meeting for no good reason. That said, moving players without a promise is pretty normal SOP and is on the teams in the end.

[Moonbeam]

Doc,

you can't seriously blame LMA for the Suns and Spurs making rosters moves with the idea of creating cap space for him. That's on them.

Well there are a few things here:

I think Aldridge's anger toward the Blazers is a real thing, and I can't imagine how it can be justified.
I really don't understand why he even was considering the Suns at all given that he was so frustrated by the Blazers.

These actions already have me feeling like Aldridge is a head case. Maybe over time I'll change my mind, but that's it seems to me now.

As far as it being "on them", well obviously it is, but I think you have to ask how such things occur.

The reality is that the team in question has to make the move before they can officially sign a player, and that the player in question can therefore always change his mind after the move gets made.

Under what circumstance then do we think the Spurs trade Splitter?
1) Aldridge unofficially says he's coming.
2) Aldridge doesn't say those words, but he says very positive things.
3) Aldridge doesn't say very positive things, but nor does he say negatives and in general the meeting has good vibes.
4) Aldridge says negative things.

It's clear cut that Aldridge said either (1) or (2) to the Spurs, right? Obviously if he said (1) and then went somewhere else, that's GOT to be also on Aldridge, right?

So are you saying then that if Aldridge does (2), and then signs elsewhere that that says nothing about his integrity? I can't get behind that.

No I don't think it automatically says something about his integrity at all. He can honestly look at multiple situations and really like more than one of them. And honestly say to both the Suns and the Spurs that I'm seriously considering taking your offer without him being some kind of head case or bad guy.

I get you don't like the guy, but I can't get behind your reasoning here at all. Teams take chances like this in FA every year with other players whom I sure give them good vibes and go elsewhere. Now if somebody pulls a Carlos Boozer absolutely question him all you want. But you appear to be singling out LMA here based on I'm not really sure what.

And I really don't understand why you insist that LMA has some sort of obligation to the Spurs just because they pulled the trigger on the Splitter trade.

I agree with this. He strikes me as a guy who takes his time with decisions, and because he is more reserved, he can be hard to read. I think he was just doing his homework for the most part, and wanted to make a careful decision knowing that his window of opportunity to compete for titles as a main contributor won't be open for much longer. The second meeting with the Lakers is the only thing that puzzled me.

[Texas Chuck]

my guess is the 2nd meeting with the Lakers was probably a favor to his agent--especially in light of the reports that got out about LMA hating the Lakers' presentation. His agent is going to have to work with the Lakers in the future and probably wanted to keep that relationship in a good place.

I think people really underestimate just how much influence these agents have. I mean we might as well call Dallas the Fegans instead of the Mavericks for instance. I could easily see LMA giving the Lakers a 2nd meeting as a favor to his agent. I mean he met with several teams I don't think he was ever seriously considering--again including my Mavs. I don't think poorly of him for it. Just like I didn't with Dwight or Melo or Deron or any of the big-time FA's we struck out on.

[andrewww]

my guess is the 2nd meeting with the Lakers was probably a favor to his agent--especially in light of the reports that got out about LMA hating the Lakers' presentation. His agent is going to have to work with the Lakers in the future and probably wanted to keep that relationship in a good place.

I think people really underestimate just how much influence these agents have. I mean we might as well call Dallas the Fegans instead of the Mavericks for instance. I could easily see LMA giving the Lakers a 2nd meeting as a favor to his agent. I mean he met with several teams I don't think he was ever seriously considering--again including my Mavs. I don't think poorly of him for it. Just like I didn't with Dwight or Melo or Deron or any of the big-time FA's we struck out on.

I agree that the second 'meeting' with the Lakers was to help the Lakers save face for the franchise on behalf of his agent's request for future business.

It also seems that from what I'm reading, that the Suns FO were looking to break up the Morris twins anyway so it may not necessarily be LMA giving Phx the wrong signs that he would likely sign with them (highly unlikely to me) but rather the Phx FO being proactive with a move they wanted to complete either way regardless if LMA signed or not.

The Spurs were always in the lead, just made too much sense from too many angles.

[bondom34]

Oh, the twins definitely were on the market. Here's the history:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/7/2/8888059/phoenix-suns-trade-analysis-the-morris-twins-brought-this-on

[ceiling raiser]

There has been an influx of trolls/previously banned posters recently. The mods here are terrific, so it's unfortunate they have to deal with that sort of silliness. Apologies if it's not appropriate to post about this here (please delete my post if it isn't), but Paulie and High Cyde brought something up today:

Don't accounts have a 100 day waiting period to post?

Only for the General Board.

Oh I see, thanks man. You'd think there would be some restrictions like that for the much more in-depth PC board, but I'm sure the powers that be will figure something out in the future.

Would it be possible to extend the 100 day waiting period for the general board to the PC board? I wonder if it's worth considering.

[bondom34]

There has been an influx of trolls/previously banned posters recently. The mods here are terrific, so it's unfortunate they have to deal with that sort of silliness. Apologies if it's not appropriate to post about this here (please delete my post if it isn't), but Paulie and High Cyde brought something up today:

Only for the General Board.

Oh I see, thanks man. You'd think there would be some restrictions like that for the much more in-depth PC board, but I'm sure the powers that be will figure something out in the future.

Would it be possible to extend the 100 day waiting period for the general board to the PC board? I wonder if it's worth considering.

Its certainly a thought. I'd say post it on the feedback and suggestions board (this would go for anyone w/ an idea like this ). Never hurts to ask!

[sp6r=underrated]

Would it be possible to extend the 100 day waiting period for the general board to the PC board? I wonder if it's worth considering.

The 100 day restriction on posting is a bad idea on the General Board that has failed to improve the quality of the discussion in any measurable way and that failed policy should not be extended to the Players Comparison Board.

The Players Comparison Board is the best basketball discussion forum on the internet that I have found but it is not perfect. It does have an echo chamber tendency due to our reliance on terms that are not clearly defined if new here and certain biases that are not proven conclusively to be correct. Excluding new posters will make that problem worse without any clear benefits.

The main impact would be to gradually shrink the number of posters on this board such that it resembles apbr should the 100 day ban on posting was added to the Players Comparison the board.

[RSCD3_]

I agree the benefits outweighs the negatives.