Raptors Cap Situation - Woj: Cap at 70 million, Tax 84.7 million

[Woody Allen]

If Biyombo is signed with the roomer MLE, there should still be some cap space. How big that space is of course is dependent on whether the Carroll/Joseph deals are frontloaded/flat/backloaded. If he is signed with cap space then the room MLE is still intact. Although I'd prefer if we stopped giving multi-year deals to mediocre players...

[dagger]

So as it stands, they likely have to waive Ridnour to create the space rather than holding on to him to make a trade unless the cap is the full 69 million and they backload Carroll and Joseph, correct?

I see Ridnour as trade fodder. I believe (might be wrong on this) but because he was acquired via a TE and not in a player-player transaction he can be included with other players.

They won't have space by waiving Ridnour. They are at 69 million without him included in my calculation.

I don;t see that. My best bet is that we have $3-4m in cap left.

First off, people are counting Biyombo now, as a count against cap. You don't put the room exception on to team salary until all cap space is used. So he won't actually sign it until all others are signed. DeRozan is indeed 10.1m - Wolstat checked. I don't see why Carroll and Joseph would be flatlined. There is a strong possibility with the cap rising that they are backloaded. I'm going with about $65m in salary, based on Carroll starting at $14.1m and Joseph at $6.9m. And yes, I have Wright at 120% and am pretending Luke is gone.

[Zeno]

So as it stands, they likely have to waive Ridnour to create the space rather than holding on to him to make a trade unless the cap is the full 69 million and they backload Carroll and Joseph, correct?

I see Ridnour as trade fodder. I believe (might be wrong on this) but because he was acquired via a TE and not in a player-player transaction he can be included with other players.

They won't have space by waiving Ridnour. They are at 69 million without him included in my calculation.

I don;t see that. My best bet is that we have $3-4m in cap left.

First off, people are counting Biyombo now, as a count against cap. You don't put the room exception on to team salary until all cap space is used. So he won't actually sign it until all others are signed. DeRozan is indeed 10.1m - Wolstat checked. I don't see why Carroll and Joseph would be flatlined. There is a strong possibility with the cap rising that they are backloaded. I'm going with about $65m in salary, based on Carroll starting at $14.1m and Joseph at $6.9m. And yes, I have Wright at 120% and am pretending Luke is gone.

yep, I figured this out while posting a response to Rapobsessed7. It all depends on the actual cap number and how the contracts are backloaded. Either way they are not forced to waive Ridnour to create space if they want to use him in trade. All options are open.

[Rapsobsessed7]

So as it stands, they likely have to waive Ridnour to create the space rather than holding on to him to make a trade unless the cap is the full 69 million and they backload Carroll and Joseph, correct?

I see Ridnour as trade fodder. I believe (might be wrong on this) but because he was acquired via a TE and not in a player-player transaction he can be included with other players.

They won't have space by waiving Ridnour. They are at 69 million without him included in my calculation.

That's my point. If they are at 69 with Ridnour, they need to waive him to create the space to sign the players they have committed to (Carroll and Joseph).

...Wait a minute. you have Biyombo as part of the 69 million but he's a space exception signing so they actually will have 2.5 million or so in space depending on the cap number and how the contract are backloaded. So they can keep Ridnour on team as trade fodder as you say. got it I think.

2.8 in space but yes, I'm going off the assumption they are flat. Could be different but easiest to calculate it as flat. They have till the 10th to waive Luke so i assume a move will be made quickly

[Rapsobsessed7]

So as it stands, they likely have to waive Ridnour to create the space rather than holding on to him to make a trade unless the cap is the full 69 million and they backload Carroll and Joseph, correct?

I see Ridnour as trade fodder. I believe (might be wrong on this) but because he was acquired via a TE and not in a player-player transaction he can be included with other players.

They won't have space by waiving Ridnour. They are at 69 million without him included in my calculation.

I don;t see that. My best bet is that we have $3-4m in cap left.

First off, people are counting Biyombo now, as a count against cap. You don't put the room exception on to team salary until all cap space is used. So he won't actually sign it until all others are signed. DeRozan is indeed 10.1m - Wolstat checked. I don't see why Carroll and Joseph would be flatlined. There is a strong possibility with the cap rising that they are backloaded. I'm going with about $65m in salary, based on Carroll starting at $14.1m and Joseph at $6.9m. And yes, I have Wright at 120% and am pretending Luke is gone.

think you will be able to answer this.

Can Ridnour be combined with current players in a trade? My guess is yes because he wasn't involved in a player-player transaction but i might be wrong on that.

I assumed the contracts were flat because i haven't seen the details posted anywhere. Easier to calculate it that way, could be back loaded or with annual raises and give us more room.

[realball]

I see Ridnour as trade fodder. I believe (might be wrong on this) but because he was acquired via a TE and not in a player-player transaction he can be included with other players.

They won't have space by waiving Ridnour. They are at 69 million without him included in my calculation.

I don;t see that. My best bet is that we have $3-4m in cap left.

First off, people are counting Biyombo now, as a count against cap. You don't put the room exception on to team salary until all cap space is used. So he won't actually sign it until all others are signed. DeRozan is indeed 10.1m - Wolstat checked. I don't see why Carroll and Joseph would be flatlined. There is a strong possibility with the cap rising that they are backloaded. I'm going with about $65m in salary, based on Carroll starting at $14.1m and Joseph at $6.9m. And yes, I have Wright at 120% and am pretending Luke is gone.

think you will be able to answer this.

Can Ridnour be combined with current players in a trade? My guess is yes because he wasn't involved in a player-player transaction but i might be wrong on that.

I assumed the contracts were flat because i haven't seen the details posted anywhere. Easier to calculate it that way, could be back loaded or with annual raises and give us more room.

He could have been packaged if we traded him 3 days after trading for him. Now he can only be traded on his own + cash/picks.

Rapsobsessed7, do you have the figures for the TPEs we have left?

[Woody Allen]

Can Ridnour be combined with current players in a trade? My guess is yes because he wasn't involved in a player-player transaction but i might be wrong on that.

No.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100

[kakashi]

For trade exceptions does this mean we can trade a Raptor and pair up the Vasquez exception to take in more salary?

So a Ross $3,553,917 plus the Vasquez trade exception $6,400,000 could net us up to a $10 mill player?

[Rapsobsessed7]

For trade exceptions does this mean we can trade a Raptor and pair up the Vasquez exception to take in more salary?

So a Ross $3,553,917 plus the Vasquez trade exception $6,400,000 could net us up to a $10 mill player?

No. Can't combine exceptions and players like that.

[Rapsobsessed7]

I don;t see that. My best bet is that we have $3-4m in cap left.

First off, people are counting Biyombo now, as a count against cap. You don't put the room exception on to team salary until all cap space is used. So he won't actually sign it until all others are signed. DeRozan is indeed 10.1m - Wolstat checked. I don't see why Carroll and Joseph would be flatlined. There is a strong possibility with the cap rising that they are backloaded. I'm going with about $65m in salary, based on Carroll starting at $14.1m and Joseph at $6.9m. And yes, I have Wright at 120% and am pretending Luke is gone.

think you will be able to answer this.

Can Ridnour be combined with current players in a trade? My guess is yes because he wasn't involved in a player-player transaction but i might be wrong on that.

I assumed the contracts were flat because i haven't seen the details posted anywhere. Easier to calculate it that way, could be back loaded or with annual raises and give us more room.

He could have been packaged if we traded him 3 days after trading for him. Now he can only be traded on his own + cash/picks.

Rapsobsessed7, do you have the figures for the TPEs we have left?

Check the OP just updated it.

[kakashi]

For trade exceptions does this mean we can trade a Raptor and pair up the Vasquez exception to take in more salary?

So a Ross $3,553,917 plus the Vasquez trade exception $6,400,000 could net us up to a $10 mill player?

No. Can't combine exceptions and players like that.

Oh okay thanks, I read this on another site but I'm not sure I understand why it works in this situational example:

Despite all that, creative GM’s can use players and trade exceptions together in some circumstances – While trades with aggregated salaries cannot fit under this umbrella, teams can format trades to make this work. As an example, let’s say the Warriors want Taj Gibson but do not want to trade enough salary to make it work directly as a player for player(s) swap. They could use part of their trade exception from sending Richard Jefferson to Utah last July to acquire Gibson and then send something cheaper like Harrison Barnes to Chicago.

[Rapsobsessed7]

For trade exceptions does this mean we can trade a Raptor and pair up the Vasquez exception to take in more salary?

So a Ross $3,553,917 plus the Vasquez trade exception $6,400,000 could net us up to a $10 mill player?

No. Can't combine exceptions and players like that.

Oh okay thanks, I read this on another site but I'm not sure I understand why it works in this situational example:

Despite all that, creative GM’s can use players and trade exceptions together in some circumstances – While trades with aggregated salaries cannot fit under this umbrella, teams can format trades to make this work. As an example, let’s say the Warriors want Taj Gibson but do not want to trade enough salary to make it work directly as a player for player(s) swap. They could use part of their trade exception from sending Richard Jefferson to Utah last July to acquire Gibson and then send something cheaper like Harrison Barnes to Chicago.

It works in like a 2 part trade.

Part 1:
To CHI: TE (it has to be big enough to absorb gibsons salary)

To GSW: Taj Gibson

Part 2:
To CHI: Harrison Barnes (via TE just acquired)
To GSW: TE (amounts to the value of Harrison Barnes contract)

Does that make sense?

[kakashi]

Oh okay that makes sense and that all has to be under the cap to absorb the player's contract?

[Rapsobsessed7]

Oh okay that makes sense and that all has to be under the cap to absorb the player's contract?

If you're under the cap you can absorb the players salary yes but if you are over it as was the case with the GSW example and you have a trade exception you can use it to acquire a player that makes the TEs amount.

So we have a 6,400,000 Vasquez TE for example. If we were over the cap we could use that to acquire a player who made no more than 6,500,000 (6.4 + 100k)

[Anatomize]

I wonder if Ridnour is a pre-cursor to a trade move.. we traded for him for rights to a draft pick.. he's been traded multiple times.. why would we trade for him just to waive him? That seems senseless.

[becausephilchow]

I wonder if Ridnour is a pre-cursor to a trade move.. we traded for him for rights to a draft pick.. he's been traded multiple times.. why would we trade for him just to waive him? That seems senseless.

Yes, he's obviously there to be moved. However, if we can't get a deal done, then he will just bce waived.

Zubcic was the risk you take, to acquire a potential crucial piece in a trade for a team wanting to save some money. If not, you waive him. It's a gamble.

[Skeezo]

Updated post Biyombo & Joseph... Had to move Carroll back to an even deal rather than front loaded with C.Joseph incoming... Chart shows our payroll as flat with salary cap although I still show 2.7m in space as Biyombo deal was using Room Exception/MiniMLE...

[Skeezo]

Oh okay that makes sense and that all has to be under the cap to absorb the player's contract?

If you're under the cap you can absorb the players salary yes but if you are over it as was the case with the GSW example and you have a trade exception you can use it to acquire a player that makes the TEs amount.

So we have a 6,400,000 Vasquez TE for example. If we were over the cap we could use that to acquire a player who made no more than 6,500,000 (6.4 + 100k)

Actually from what I have read on Larry Coon... Once we fall below the salary cap to acquire free agents (Carroll, Joseph) we not only lose our right to the MLE and BAE, but we also lose all our Trade Exceptions as well... With limited cap space left (2-3m) any trade pretty much have to follow trade guidelines (within 25%) cause we really don't have the space to absorb. As per free agency we are now relegated to Vet Minimums to fill roster spots...

[becausephilchow]

Well then, with 2.7M left in cap, that's a lot better than I thought.

Ross [3.5] + Ridnour [2.75] + Rights to De Colo for Terrence Jones [2.5] (2 Deals, as I believe Ridnour cannot be moved in combination with another player?)

(Since Jones is only owed 2.5, and Ross is getting paid 3.5, we actually end up picking up an extra 1M in Cap Space)

Johnson [2.5] + BeBe [1.8] for PJ Tucker [5.5] -- Reasoning, is that JJ is a Free Agent after this summer, and likely to command somewhere in the 5M~ Per. So, why bothering signing JJ For that, when Tucker is locked up for another year, AND, shoots the 3 better?

(Cap Space goes from 3.7 down to 2.5)

Marcus Thornton for Remaining Money (2.5~)

Vet Minimum for Dorell Wright for Injuries
Vet Minimum for Backup PF/C for Injuries

Lowry / Joseph / De. Wright
DeRozan / Thornton / Do. Wright
Carroll / Tucker / Caboclo
Jones / Patterson
Valanciunas / Biyombo / Vet Min

NOTE: If Carroll's and Joseph's contracts are Back Loaded, we would have an extra 1.5M in Cap Space to play around with also. Anthony Morrow is only making 3.4M this season, could we potentially swing a trade for him? Can absorb him into our Cap Space.

2 Second Round Picks for Morrow? Is that too much? Guy shot 43% from 3PT Last Year. Would be absolutely amazing to have IMO.

[Raps Militia]

Well then, with 2.7M left in cap, that's a lot better than I thought.

Ross [3.5] + Ridnour [2.75] + Rights to De Colo for Terrence Jones [2.5] (2 Deals, as I believe Ridnour cannot be moved in combination with another player?)

We can't combine the Ridnour's contract with nothing.
If we want Jones, we can offer only Ross (+ rights of De Colo). I would give them even Nogueira..

I simply think that we could give a contract to Hill (6 millions per year), after we trade Ross for a 2nd...