Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[MrMiyagi]

But that wasn't how it was put. I wasn't arguing whether their production outweighed their turnovers, just simply stating that Bledsoe's turnovers are pretty common when looking at other players that handle the ball a lot. James isn't a point guard, but he has a large turnover per game, as does Harden. Wade isn't a point guard, yet his turnovers are on par with Bledsoe. I wouldn't call Wade, Harden, and James "turnover machines" would you? Westbrook leads the league in turnovers for point guards, would he be called one?

So again, if Bledsoe is one, so are many of the other players in the league which handle the ball often. Man this took up way too much time and effort.

Lol at comparing Bledsoe to Lebron and Harden. Those guys are STUDS! Bledsoe is a scrub turnover machine who will never be good!

Bledsoe's abysmal assist to turnover ratio ratio of 1.38 that barely breaks even and his nearly averaging 5 turnovers per game after the departure of Dragic as the primary ballhandler shouldn't be considered because the sample size was only 17 games and we should assume that he learnt something as CP3's understudy

Because 17 games accurately encapsulates a player:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/linje01/gamelog/2012/#39-55-sum:pgl_basic

[Walt_Uoob]

In this one person's opinion from the Hornets board, Zeller's not likely to be moved anymore:

Curious what you all think the asking price is for Zeller these days? I remember before the draft the word was they wanted to trade Zeller for wing shooting and draft Kaminsky. So does the fact that you took Kaminsky mean Zeller's on his way out for sure? Or do the Batum/Vonleh/Lamb/etc moves mean you got your wing help and decided to keep Zeller instead of Vonleh?

I'm a Suns fan and now that we lost out on LaMarcus Aldridge and traded away a lot of our depth, I'm not sure what we'll do at PF behind/ahead of Markieff Morris. Is Zeller getable for just a future pick? PJ Tucker is really solid and would offer wing shooting and defense but we've also traded away a ton of SF depth lately so it seems like we'll round out the roster through FAs or picks-for-players trades.

Thanks!

I doubt we want to move Zeller now that we've moved Vonleh and lost Bismack and now have zero defense in the frontcourt outside of Zeller. Considering how much this team seems to want to win now (and have made some stupid ass moves to get there), I doubt any downgrade moves are happening right now. And god knows we can't afford to trade any more good defensive bigs.

If it was me taking over this roster right now, I'd send you Al Jefferson or Spencer Hawes for free without a second thought, but I'm not at the helm of the team. I'm not sure there's a deal to be made between us.

[nevetsov]

is Zeller a twin? I guess if he was, we would have acquired him by now.

[matt131]

is Zeller a twin? I guess if he was, we would have acquired him by now.

He has two brothers. One of whom, Luke, we signed back in 2012.

[saintEscaton]

I'd rather sign Brandon Bass than trade for Lee's bloated contract

[saintEscaton]

Simply put,Westbrook, Wall,Curry, and Rose are all way better than Bledsoe and their production for their team overshadows their turnovers, that's not the cast for Bledsoe.

But that wasn't how it was put. I wasn't arguing whether their production outweighed their turnovers, just simply stating that Bledsoe's turnovers are pretty common when looking at other players that handle the ball a lot. James isn't a point guard, but he has a large turnover per game, as does Harden. Wade isn't a point guard, yet his turnovers are on par with Bledsoe. I wouldn't call Wade, Harden, and James "turnover machines" would you? Westbrook leads the league in turnovers for point guards, would he be called one?

So again, if Bledsoe is one, so are many of the other players in the league which handle the ball often. Man this took up way too much time and effort.

"Handling the ball often" doesn't just mean bringing it up the court or being the nominal PG. Bled's usage rate is nowhere near the 30+% range of truly ball dominant/ high-volume players such as Harden yet his pace/minutes adjusted turnover percentage per 100 possessions is still higher

[Blackification]

I'd rather sign Brandon Bass than trade for Lee's bloated contract

Already signed with the Lakers

[gaspar]

But that wasn't how it was put. I wasn't arguing whether their production outweighed their turnovers, just simply stating that Bledsoe's turnovers are pretty common when looking at other players that handle the ball a lot. James isn't a point guard, but he has a large turnover per game, as does Harden. Wade isn't a point guard, yet his turnovers are on par with Bledsoe. I wouldn't call Wade, Harden, and James "turnover machines" would you? Westbrook leads the league in turnovers for point guards, would he be called one?

So again, if Bledsoe is one, so are many of the other players in the league which handle the ball often. Man this took up way too much time and effort.

"Handling the ball often" doesn't just mean bringing it up the court or being the nominal PG. Bled's usage rate is nowhere near the 30+% range of truly ball dominant/ high-volume players such as Harden yet his pace/minutes adjusted turnover percentage per 100 possessions is still higher

Usage rate is not what you think it is. You can touch the ball 40 times per game and still have extremely high usage rate.

Bledsoe actually handles the ball slightly more than Harden.

Touches per game:
Bledsoe 78.9
Harden 76.9

[TeamTragic]

I don't think anyone knows what we are planning next. Coming up on July 9

[Mulhollanddrive]

I've narrowed down our trade targets:

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nba.aspx

[WeekapaugGroove]

Wonder if Chicago moves a big after drafting Portis. I'd love mirotic but I think the bulls love him too and he's not going anywhere. Taj Gibson seems like most likely guy to be on the block. Wonder what the price tag would be? I wouldn't pay a ton for Taj but at the right price he'd be a solid pickup.

I'd do tucker and a 2nd rounder for him. Saves Chicago some money and gives them another wing defender. Then the suns could use the little bit of left over cap space to find a 3 and d sf in free agency.

[RunDogGun]

I would actually like Anderson over Gallo.

I think that's a no brainer in terms of what we need. We'd get both rebounding and spacing from Anderson. Both have history of injuries though. Let's see how desperate NO is to shed salary, and hopefully this is a doable trade which allows us to keep as many assets as we can.

ummm

Gallo shoots better

Gallo passes better

Gallo scores more per36

Gallo has more offensive win shares

Gallo has more defensive win shares

Gallo gets to the free throw line more

Gallo is a better defender

Gallo gets more steals

Gallo has a higher PER

Gallo has a better at DRB%


Lets see what Anderson does better:

He has a higher ORB%

Anderson is so one-dimensional it hurts, Gallo always had the tools to be a star and just had bad luck, guy is only 26 and still has a lot of time. Anderson should be the option if every Gallo deal doesn't work out. Unlikely, but if you can get him and keep Kieff, your miles less mediocre than if you had Anderson

I never suggested moving Markieff for either. I still think Anderson would be better at the four in our system than Galo would be at the four in our system. Anderson had an off year shooting the three at 34%, but the four previous years he was between 38-40% from there. Galo's best year was at the bottom of that at 38% at that was a few years ago.

Anderson is a better rebounder, so I really don't see how my thought of better spacing and rebounding would be off, when Anderson has on average over a five year period better three point shooting (spacing) and has rebounded better.

Oh well, not worth it enough to argue if my opinion is better than yours. Both have injury issues, I guess the question would be which was easily fixable, and which one we might not be able to return to form. Anderson is only a year removed from being a 19.8/6.5 player. Could be nice to mix with Warren and Len if we felt Morris was playing or fit better. I think we have enough guys that can play the three still.

Lastly, Ryan cost about $3 million less, so it would be easier to give up less to get Anderson. We could send out less and keep more of our player assets, especially if NO is looking to salary dump.

[pidi]

i wouldn´t mind david lee, i wouldn´t mind west for 1-2 years.. dlee seems a good fit to me, his contract runs one year and we may have the cap space to get another pf next year. so i wouldn´t mind him nect to chandler. the same goes with david west, he is a rough nose, just imagine a hardnosed frontcourt that we din not have since the barkley days..

[RunDogGun]

i wouldn´t mind david lee, i wouldn´t mind west for 1-2 years.. dlee seems a good fit to me, his contract runs one year and we may have the cap space to get another pf next year. so i wouldn´t mind him nect to chandler. the same goes with david west, he is a rough nose, just imagine a hardnosed frontcourt that we din not have since the barkley days..

I wouldn't mind Lee either, but we can't afford his contract without giving up either Tucker and fillers or Markieff. I don't see how that makes us better really. Now if we can keep Markieff and Tucker while adding a solid four, one who can start, but has recently come off the bench, well I think we should go for that.

[jredsaz]

Wonder if Chicago moves a big after drafting Portis. I'd love mirotic but I think the bulls love him too and he's not going anywhere. Taj Gibson seems like most likely guy to be on the block. Wonder what the price tag would be? I wouldn't pay a ton for Taj but at the right price he'd be a solid pickup.

I'd do tucker and a 2nd rounder for him. Saves Chicago some money and gives them another wing defender. Then the suns could use the little bit of left over cap space to find a 3 and d sf in free agency.

Forget Taj. After we signed Chandler a guy like Gibson is repetitive. I would take Frye and his $8 million a year over Taj and his $8 million. At least Frye can shoot the 3, something our other bigs cannot do consistently.

[TASTIC]

Any word on Alec Brown and whether he's got a shot?

[RunDogGun]

Interesting, but we signed Josh Harrellson to the summer league team. He's played with both Bledsoe and Knight while on Kentucky, and he played with Chandler in NYK.

[pidi]

so you want to keep markieff - if we keep him than he should be the starting pf, tc will help him getting strong and dirty. i can see a trade of tucker coming, warren could start at the 3 like the warriors did with barnes. it should not change that much, he can develope and the other 3 vets could help him.

[Qwigglez]

Wonder if Chicago moves a big after drafting Portis. I'd love mirotic but I think the bulls love him too and he's not going anywhere. Taj Gibson seems like most likely guy to be on the block. Wonder what the price tag would be? I wouldn't pay a ton for Taj but at the right price he'd be a solid pickup.

I'd do tucker and a 2nd rounder for him. Saves Chicago some money and gives them another wing defender. Then the suns could use the little bit of left over cap space to find a 3 and d sf in free agency.

I'd give up a pick or two for Mirotic (late picks, like Cleveland and a top 15 protected pick). Doubt they trade him for picks though. They'd like want a wing (maybe Tucker) or during the season when Noah breaks again and we aren't close to making the playoffs they would take Chandler for Gibson & Mirotic.

[sunsbum]

Theres no reason to get rid of Keef now. We will give him a year and see how he responds. I'm not a fan of his antics but his contract and potential are greater than those of who been mentioned.