Myth About Small Ball Taking Over

[floppymoose]

I cannot fully agree with you. If you think that a Shaquille O'Neal is going to be relegated to a role played because he's not as mobile a defender as a Chris Bosh, think again. No matter what the recent trends are, a great big is a great big. If the 90's centers (Shaq, Ewing Robinson, Olajawon, Mourning, Mutombo) were to be reincarnated into today's NBA, no one would poo poo any of them for not being mobile enough. They'd completely readjust the way they play the game to suit those guys. Talent wins out...

I don't think we are really disagreeing, though I'm not certain yet. Amazing offensive centers will still be valuable. But they are going to have to draw double teams reliably, and be good at finding the open shooter when they are, because on the other end their lack of mobility is going to lead to open looks by all the stretch 4s and 5s out there. This is more of a gradual shift than a sudden change. It's a matter of degree.

[MilesTeg]

Some people seem to think the playoffs started with the finals. If there's anything to learn from GS, it's the importance of versatility.

[BBallFreak]

I cannot fully agree with you. If you think that a Shaquille O'Neal is going to be relegated to a role played because he's not as mobile a defender as a Chris Bosh, think again. No matter what the recent trends are, a great big is a great big. If the 90's centers (Shaq, Ewing Robinson, Olajawon, Mourning, Mutombo) were to be reincarnated into today's NBA, no one would poo poo any of them for not being mobile enough. They'd completely readjust the way they play the game to suit those guys. Talent wins out...

I don't think we are really disagreeing, though I'm not certain yet. Amazing offensive centers will still be valuable. But they are going to have to draw double teams reliably, and be good at finding the open shooter when they are, because on the other end their lack of mobility is going to lead to open looks by all the stretch 4s and 5s out there. This is more of a gradual shift than a sudden change. It's a matter of degree.

Of course. I don't think we're disagreeing either. I did allude to a generational talent forcing the change...

[Smash3]

I was just telling my girlfriend about the advantages of small ball, but she seemed unimpressed.

"underwhelmed" would have earned you 2x the and1s

[WD]

Can't wait to see how this season turns out, ball is fluid, it changes based on the situation. Like the poster said, nothing stays exactly the same, teams will adjust to what works.


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[blind prophet]

The warriors destroyed Cousins and the Kings last year. The year before every game was close, but a healthy Bogut with their lineup was nasty.

I'm curious how it looks this season with a better balanced Kings team though.

[nationwidekid]

GSW do a great job of collapsing in the paint. Grizzlies lack of an outside presence killed them.

Lack of small ball defeated by small ball. Oh sweet irony...

I think injuries defeated the Grizzlies more so than small ball.

[TaylorMonkey]

GSW do a great job of collapsing in the paint. Grizzlies lack of an outside presence killed them.

Lack of small ball defeated by small ball. Oh sweet irony...

I think injuries defeated the Grizzlies more so than small ball.

Not really. Conley was about 80% or better. Allen was rendered unplayable even before he pulled his hamstring. Some of us wanted Allen to be healthy because he was a known factor that was solved.

That said, the Warriors used their small ball judiciously and their bigs defended memphis' s front court well. I'd agree that their lack of shooting did them in, and no one injured on Memphis was that shooter they needed.

[PKABOOICU]

reason for small ball is lack of big man talent.

but the likes of Towns, Okafor, Noel, Embiid(hopefully), and of course Roy MVP Hibbert should change that

[nationwidekid]

Lack of small ball defeated by small ball. Oh sweet irony...

I think injuries defeated the Grizzlies more so than small ball.

Not really. Conley was about 80% or better. Allen was rendered unplayable even before he pulled his hamstring. Some of us wanted Allen to be healthy because he was a known factor that was solved.

That said, the Warriors used their small ball judiciously and their bigs defended memphis' s front court well. I'd agree that their lack of shooting did them in, and no one injured on Memphis was that shooter they needed.

Conley was 65% at best, playing with a broken face, bum ankles, and a list of other injuries not including the weight and conditioning he lost from not playing. Allen aggregated his hamstring game 4 and played 15 mins, DNP game 5 and tried to go Game 6 but only managed 5 mins. Like I said injuries did the Grizzlies in more so than the small ball, their small ball just took advantage of the situation. Allen isn't a shooter but im not sure you can quantify the amount of pts he can take off their boards with stats alone. Im posting a link to a interview mike did to help you better understand what he had to deal with.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/play?id=13082870

[nationwidekid]

GSW do a great job of collapsing in the paint. Grizzlies lack of an outside presence killed them.

Lack of small ball defeated by small ball. Oh sweet irony...

Having outside shooting isnt small ball, small ball is playing a 6'7" Green at the 4 and 5, every team need some shooters to keep the defense honest and help space the floor for their inside game.

[nationwidekid]

I think injuries defeated the Grizzlies more so than small ball.

Not really. Conley was about 80% or better. Allen was rendered unplayable even before he pulled his hamstring. Some of us wanted Allen to be healthy because he was a known factor that was solved.

That said, the Warriors used their small ball judiciously and their bigs defended memphis' s front court well. I'd agree that their lack of shooting did them in, and no one injured on Memphis was that shooter they needed.

Conley was 65% at best, playing with a broken face, bum ankles, and a list of other injuries not including the weight and conditioning he lost from not playing. Allen aggregated his hamstring game 4 and played 15 mins, DNP game 5 and tried to go Game 6 but only managed 5 mins. Like I said injuries did the Grizzlies in more so than the small ball, their small ball just took advantage of the situation. Allen isn't a shooter but im not sure you can quantify the amount of pts he can take off their boards with stats alone. Im posting a link to a interview mike did to help you better understand what he had to deal with. His interview starts 19 mins into the podcast.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/play?id=13082870

[Jakay]

GSW do a great job of collapsing in the paint. Grizzlies lack of an outside presence killed them.

Lack of small ball defeated by small ball. Oh sweet irony...

Having outside shooting isnt small ball, small ball is playing a 6'7" Green at the 4 and 5, every team need some shooters to keep the defense honest and help space the floor for their inside game.

Thank you for clarifying that difficult concept.

[og15]

Small ball ismfor teams without bigmen. You play to your strength.

Golden State has big men though. Bogut and David Lee are both quality guys. Then Speights, too? They could have gone bigger. They just chose to play their best guys. It worked.

Do we really consider David Lee "big" in that sense?

[whocurrz]

Warriors beat Grizzlies because of defense. Grizzlies couldn't punish them when they went small. Gasol shot 34% the last three games and ZBo around 44% while being defended by undersized guys. Conley would have helped but only if he played 3 of the best games of his life. Grizzlies hit the Warriors in the mouth early in the fight and Warriors just hit them back much harder and faster. They were a better defense and offense and more versatile team all last year and it showed.

[BBallFreak]

Small ball ismfor teams without bigmen. You play to your strength.

Golden State has big men though. Bogut and David Lee are both quality guys. Then Speights, too? They could have gone bigger. They just chose to play their best guys. It worked.

Do we really consider David Lee "big" in that sense?

You do realize he averaged 18.2 points and 9.3 boards just a year ago, right? I'd say that was pretty big.

[hsb]

The big men did what they could in that series. Mozgov was on another level and took advantage of the small ball lineup pretty damn well.

People forget how poorly the Cavs guards shot, pretty much lost the series. I have no idea why people focus on the bigs so much, more of a narrative that's gone a little too far.

[Little Digger]

Now back to reality

Mozgov got taken almost completely out of the series thanks to the Warriors Nellie-ball..He had no chance vs those Curry pic n rolls..

On another level? lolz

[og15]

Golden State has big men though. Bogut and David Lee are both quality guys. Then Speights, too? They could have gone bigger. They just chose to play their best guys. It worked.

Do we really consider David Lee "big" in that sense?

You do realize he averaged 18.2 points and 9.3 boards just a year ago, right? I'd say that was pretty big.

lol, I'm not talking about statistical production. I mean defensively, do we consider Lee a guy that has a big presence on defense. I know he can score and rebound, but in the Warriors case, going from Lee to Draymond is smaller in the sense of inside play on offense, but you are essentially playing "bigger" on defense with Green.

If your small ball can defend, then the smallness of it is essentially negated. Teams that have gone small and had issues generally didn't have small lineups that could defend well. They generally traded offense for defense when going small.

[hsb]

Now back to reality

Mozgov got taken almost completely out of the series thanks to the Warriors Nellie-ball..He had no chance vs those Curry pic n rolls..

On another level? lolz

When facing Curry, you cant have your big man switch on to the him or else they'll get destroyed due to Curry's ability to create space and get a clear shot. That has little to do with small ball mechanics and more to do with the Warriors ability to play to their stregnths.

Evidently, when playing, James Jones was the weakest component in guarding the PNR not the big imo. How many times did Mozgov get trapped in the 1-5 PNR?

In game 6 Mozgov had 17 points on 8 shots, grabbed 12 rebounds and had 4 blocks. Honestly, what more do you want? He was taking advantage of the small ball more than they were exploiting him on defense.

Shumpert, Delly, Smith and Jones shot 7 for 29. Good luck keeping up with the Warriors getting that guard play. But yeah, lets focus on the bigs to create this ridiculous narrative on small ball taking over.

The trend continues in the other games when Warriors took over the series. The constant is always the guards were ridiculously terrible at scoring.