Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[JMac1]

Um. You are wrong on all levels. Centers usually do not really develop until age 25 or so. His offensive potential is through the roof.

Other than Hussein Whiteside miraculously developing this year, can you name a single player that went on to make an All-Star team that averaged 2ppg/2.4rbs in their rookie year, then went on to average 6.3ppg/6.6rbs in their second year? Or what about a guy that had a PER of 13.5 in their second year?

I spent a while looking this up a while ago. There's absolutely no precedent that centers develop by age 25. Every great center in the NBA right now had really nice rookie seasons and were nearly dominate by their second season. And a lot of mediocre centers in the NBA had much better centers than Len had in his second season.

If you can find another player in NBA history that started as slow as Len and then went on to be a great player, I'd love to know his name.

I don't give a damn about those meaningless stats, they don't tell the whole story. I watched him play.....So many other variables effects stats, it is ridiculous.

[Barkley6]

Are we seeing a different player when we watch Alex Len? Because to ask some people on this board, he's the second coming of Hakeem Olajuwon.

Right now, what I see is that he's a 6 and 6 player who is wildly inconsistent and injury prone. For me, he's running out of time and excuses to put it together, and I think the management feels the same way as signaled by signing Tyson Chandler.

I just don't get why people think Len is SO damn good. In his second year in the league Jake Tsakilidis averaged 7.3 and 5.6 in similar minutes to Len. So, why are we all over someone who hasn't even definitively proven himself to be better than Big Jake?

Because when healthy and given the ball on offense (the very few times) he looks very good. He has displayed the penchant to have a good jump shot and finish. He is 7'1 with a 7'4 wing span. He is only 22 years old. He is mobile. He has all of the tools to be good. He doesn't need to be Hakeem. He needs to play defense and shoot 55 percent from the floor; and he has shown he can do that at 21 years old.

He is a foundational building block. He had some fluke injuries that had nothing to do with his old Maryland injury. We are trying to build a team, but people here keep playing musical chairs with everyone that is not an Anthony Davis type. Len is a solid C/PF moving forward, lets focus on another position.

You guys kill me with the over reaction..........acting just like women. Women panic, men don't!!

Take your sexism elsewhere please.

[JMac1]

OK. Before anyone considers trading Len. Watch this. Notice the jumper. Len is unstoppable, he just doesn't know it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6i22QtHWRU

Well....well.... this doesn't show his stats. It just shows his abilities....who cares about that?

[RaisingArizona]

No chance we trade Len. C'MON MAN.

[TASTIC]

As much as I like Len, there's not a huge precedent for centers to magically become substantially better in their 3rd or 4th year. He'll probably never be the 2nd or maybe even 3rd best player on a playoff team and I doubt he ever develops an offensive game.

He has the potential to be a starter on a good team but I'd be shocked if he ever averages more than 12 points a game, even if he plays 30-35 minutes.

But I do agree, trading Len for additional assets seems silly. He's still a great backup C and is already a nice asset to have on the roster.

Gonna save this quote for 2 years from now when he is an AllStar

You legitimately think Len will be an All Star in 2 years?

Wow. I hope so. But you can add me to that list/quote in 2 years time if you want.

Derrick Favors put up 16 and 8 with 1.7blks in his fifth season and he didn't sniff an All Star spot. I highly doubt Len comes close, but I pray he does and he becomes that 14-11-3 guy we want him to be.

I don't hate Len by any means, I have just tempered my expectations with him.

[krishanson]

I don't give a damn about those meaningless stats, they don't tell the whole story. I watched him play.....So many other variables effects stats, it is ridiculous.

And I don't give a damn about your mythical belief that centers magically sprout up and become Tim Duncan when they're 25-years-old.

Also, Len shoots 34% from 16ft, 29% from 10-16ft and 29% from 3-10ft. He has no mid-range jumper. Just because it looks good doesn't mean it's effective. Until he actually starts making them, he doesn't have a mid-range shot or offensive potential.

[In Len We Trust]

Judging Alex Len by his stats and NOTHING ELSE is beyond stupid and makes you look like a total fool. I can definitely say that Lens stats are more inaccurate in comparison to him as a player than any other player on the Suns hands down. Why? Because Hornacek does not include him in the offense at all for some unknown reason and the only time he gets shots that aren't alley oops in the half court offense is when he gets open 15 footers. As of last year, his 15 footer wasn't consistent but it is constantly improving and I have no doubt that he will be a great shooter very soon.

Miles **** Plumlee got fed in the low post about 10 times more often than Len? Why? Ask our stupid coach, because I have no idea. I also have no idea why he started Plumlee over Len for almost 2 whole months.

The people who look at Len and see his potential don't care about his stats. The stats will come later. For now, we care about the massive potential , abilities, and skills this guy has at a very young age. This summer he has gotten very noticeably bigger and has apparently extended his range out to 20 feet.....and it is only July. We are still 4 months away from the first regular season game. There is no doubt in my mind that Len has serious all star potential. I see a rich man's Tyson Chandler with a great jump shot and overall scoring ability.

[TASTIC]

OK. Before anyone considers trading Len. Watch this. Notice the jumper. Len is unstoppable, he just doesn't know it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6i22QtHWRU

Well....well.... this doesn't show his stats. It just shows his abilities....who cares about that?

Come on man a 10min highlight vid?

Cody Zeller has one of them and looks like a beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqavYIvwWQ

Len has exceptional physical attributes - but that injury history has me quite concerned. He isn't what I'd call an injury prone player though because he gets banged up all over the show, they're not like ankle, ankle, ankle...

[gaspar]

Um. You are wrong on all levels. Centers usually do not really develop until age 25 or so. His offensive potential is through the roof.

Other than Hussein Whiteside miraculously developing this year, can you name a single player that went on to make an All-Star team that averaged 2ppg/2.4rbs in their rookie year, then went on to average 6.3ppg/6.6rbs in their second year? Or what about a guy that had a PER of 13.5 in their second year?

I spent a while looking this up a while ago. There's absolutely no precedent that centers develop by age 25. Every great center in the NBA right now had really nice rookie seasons and were nearly dominate by their second season. And a lot of mediocre centers in the NBA had much better centers than Len had in his second season.

If you can find another player in NBA history that started as slow as Len and then went on to be a great player, I'd love to know his name.

Jermaine O'Neal

[Nando88]

Everybody, eat a snickers


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[Saberestar]

Justin Carter (who plays in Europe) will play summer league for the Phoenix Suns, according to source.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexkennedynba/status/618097864913371136

[TASTIC]

Um. You are wrong on all levels. Centers usually do not really develop until age 25 or so. His offensive potential is through the roof.

Other than Hussein Whiteside miraculously developing this year, can you name a single player that went on to make an All-Star team that averaged 2ppg/2.4rbs in their rookie year, then went on to average 6.3ppg/6.6rbs in their second year? Or what about a guy that had a PER of 13.5 in their second year?

I spent a while looking this up a while ago. There's absolutely no precedent that centers develop by age 25. Every great center in the NBA right now had really nice rookie seasons and were nearly dominate by their second season. And a lot of mediocre centers in the NBA had much better centers than Len had in his second season.

If you can find another player in NBA history that started as slow as Len and then went on to be a great player, I'd love to know his name.

Jermaine O'Neal

That's a really good one - admittedly he came into the league from High School and had 4 years in the NBA before he even cracked the starting lineup consistently.

I would LOVE for Len to have one season doing what JO did at age 22: 12.9pts 9.8rebs and 2.8blk...Crazy for a 22yr old

[JMac1]

OK. Before anyone considers trading Len. Watch this. Notice the jumper. Len is unstoppable, he just doesn't know it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6i22QtHWRU

Well....well.... this doesn't show his stats. It just shows his abilities....who cares about that?

Come on man a 10min highlight vid?

Cody Zeller has one of them and looks like a beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqavYIvwWQ

Len has exceptional physical attributes - but that injury history has me quite concerned. He isn't what I'd call an injury prone player though because he gets banged up all over the show, they're not like ankle, ankle, ankle...

C'mon man, this discussion isn't about Cody Zeller. I have no idea who he is as a player, never watched him. Highlights make everyone look good, but that is not the discussion. The discussion is Len has the abilities and he has put them on display. That Vid is to show people why they are high on Len.

That was pretty weak what you did.

[Mr-Al]

Just because it looks good doesn't mean it's effective. Until he actually starts making them, he doesn't have a mid-range shot or offensive potential.

This is literally the opposite of scouting

[JMac1]

Um. You are wrong on all levels. Centers usually do not really develop until age 25 or so. His offensive potential is through the roof.

Other than Hussein Whiteside miraculously developing this year, can you name a single player that went on to make an All-Star team that averaged 2ppg/2.4rbs in their rookie year, then went on to average 6.3ppg/6.6rbs in their second year? Or what about a guy that had a PER of 13.5 in their second year?

I spent a while looking this up a while ago. There's absolutely no precedent that centers develop by age 25. Every great center in the NBA right now had really nice rookie seasons and were nearly dominate by their second season. And a lot of mediocre centers in the NBA had much better centers than Len had in his second season.

If you can find another player in NBA history that started as slow as Len and then went on to be a great player, I'd love to know his name.

Jermaine O'Neal

And the Blazers looked dumb as hell for burying him on the bench and then trading him before knowing what they had, teams do it all the time. I understand if you are competing, but if you are not...ridiculous.

[Mr-Al]

Judging Alex Len by his stats and NOTHING ELSE is beyond stupid and makes you look like a total fool. I can definitely say that Lens stats are more inaccurate in comparison to him as a player than any other player on the Suns hands down. Why? Because Hornacek does not include him in the offense at all for some unknown reason and the only time he gets shots that aren't alley oops in the half court offense is when he gets open 15 footers. As of last year, his 15 footer wasn't consistent but it is constantly improving and I have no doubt that he will be a great shooter very soon.

Miles **** Plumlee got fed in the low post about 10 times more often than Len? Why? Ask our stupid coach, because I have no idea. I also have no idea why he started Plumlee over Len for almost 2 whole months.

The people who look at Len and see his potential don't care about his stats. The stats will come later. For now, we care about the massive potential , abilities, and skills this guy has at a very young age. This summer he has gotten very noticeably bigger and has apparently extended his range out to 20 feet.....and it is only July. We are still 4 months away from the first regular season game. There is no doubt in my mind that Len has serious all star potential. I see a rich man's Tyson Chandler with a great jump shot and overall scoring ability.

This is common sense, thank you

[JMac1]

Just because it looks good doesn't mean it's effective. Until he actually starts making them, he doesn't have a mid-range shot or offensive potential.

This is literally the opposite of scouting

[jcsunsfan]

Judging Alex Len by his stats and NOTHING ELSE is beyond stupid and makes you look like a total fool.

This x 100

[In Len We Trust]

Lens stats will be unimpressive for probably the next 2 years because i think Chandler will be getting more minutes than him. I think this may be a factor in the Suns signing Chandler. By keeping Len on the bench, we can get him for much, much cheaper in 2017 RFA and then make him the starter. He will be a BEAST by the 2017-2018 season

[TASTIC]

Well....well.... this doesn't show his stats. It just shows his abilities....who cares about that?

Come on man a 10min highlight vid?

Cody Zeller has one of them and looks like a beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqavYIvwWQ

Len has exceptional physical attributes - but that injury history has me quite concerned. He isn't what I'd call an injury prone player though because he gets banged up all over the show, they're not like ankle, ankle, ankle...

C'mon man, this discussion isn't about Cody Zeller. I have no idea who he is as a player, never watched him. Highlights make everyone look good, but that is not the discussion. The discussion is Len has the abilities and he has put them on display. That Vid is to show people why they are high on Len.

That was pretty weak what you did.

Ugh, completely missed my point. You literally said 'watch this' and used that 10 min clip to help your argument and then said one post later 'Highlights make everyone look good, but that is not the discussion'. Cody Zeller has shown he could be a good NBA player as well, but a 10min highlight clip is not a good gauge.

Nothing you say is going to make me suddenly think Alex Len is going to be an All Star.

I've seen enough games, highlights and mixes of him to make my own decision. You are the same, we just have differing opinions - so we'll leave it at that cos we're not going to convince each other that the other is right.