Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[krishanson]

Lens stats will be unimpressive for probably the next 2 years because i think Chandler will be getting more minutes than him. I think this may be a factor in the Suns signing Chandler. By keeping Len on the bench, we can get him for much, much cheaper in 2017 RFA and then make him the starter. He will be a BEAST by the 2017-2018 season

I don't care too much about his per game stats. I'm more interested in his per 36, PER, ORtg/DRtg, and WS/48. Those stats should shoot up on the 2nd unit and in limited minutes if he's as good as everyone thinks he is.

I don't think Len is a bad player or won't grow but acting like he's untouchable and the center of the future seems incredibly premature.

[Saberestar]

I know that RunDogGun will love these news...

Suns 2014 2nd-round pick Alec Brown is on the summer team. The 7-1 shooter/shot-blocker is healthy after last summer's shoulder dislocation.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulcoro/status/618126981700300800

[JTrain]

And this whole time I thought Ish Smith was Japanese.

[Mr-Al]

Lens stats will be unimpressive for probably the next 2 years because i think Chandler will be getting more minutes than him. I think this may be a factor in the Suns signing Chandler. By keeping Len on the bench, we can get him for much, much cheaper in 2017 RFA and then make him the starter. He will be a BEAST by the 2017-2018 season

Hopefully barring injury. That's honestly my only worry, but I think the med staff will handle it

I just don't understand the issue here, Len did pretty well his first time starting, is 22, and has heaps of potential

I feel like half of this board would trade him for one of David West, Patrick Patterson, Sullinger, Terrence Jones, STAT, Kenneth Faried, Jordan Hill, Gallo, Ryan Anderson, Kelly Olynk, or John Henson

If so, wow. Scouts all over the world are crying

[JMac1]

Come on man a 10min highlight vid?

Cody Zeller has one of them and looks like a beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqavYIvwWQ

Len has exceptional physical attributes - but that injury history has me quite concerned. He isn't what I'd call an injury prone player though because he gets banged up all over the show, they're not like ankle, ankle, ankle...

C'mon man, this discussion isn't about Cody Zeller. I have no idea who he is as a player, never watched him. Highlights make everyone look good, but that is not the discussion. The discussion is Len has the abilities and he has put them on display. That Vid is to show people why they are high on Len.

That was pretty weak what you did.

Ugh, completely missed my point. You literally said 'watch this' and used that 10 min clip to help your argument and then said one post later 'Highlights make everyone look good, but that is not the discussion'. Cody Zeller has shown he could be a good NBA player as well, but a 10min highlight clip is not a good gauge.

Nothing you say is going to make me suddenly think Alex Len is going to be an All Star.

I've seen enough games, highlights and mixes of him to make my own decision. You are the same, we just have differing opinions - so we'll leave it at that cos we're not going to convince each other that the other is right.

I didn't post the clip!!

I have no comment on Zeller......so why bring him into it?

Counting or discounting highlights is only to be taken into account, not to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. So it was warranted in this discussion.

I am not trying to convince you are anyone else of anything, as if I can convince you means Len will be a stud?!

[krishanson]

Hopefully barring injury. That's honestly my only worry, but I think the med staff will handle it

I just don't understand the issue here, Len did pretty well his first time starting, is 22, and has heaps of potential

I feel like half of this board would trade him for one of David West, Patrick Patterson, Sullinger, Terrence Jones, STAT, Kenneth Faried, Jordan Hill, Gallo, Ryan Anderson, Kelly Olynk, or John Henson

If so, wow. Scouts all over the world are crying

And there are some people on this board who wouldn't trade him for DMC or Kevin Love.

[saintEscaton]

Yes the Suns FO decided to sign Chandler to a long term contract so that they are forced into give him starting minutes even if he doesn't earn it just to keep Len's value down/out of the league spotlight so he can be resigned cheaper when his rookie deal is up. Conspiracy much?

[rsavaj]

Speaking of great players like DMC and Kevin Love, I wonder what Yuta Tabuse is up to these days

[bwgood77]

Um. You are wrong on all levels. Centers usually do not really develop until age 25 or so. His offensive potential is through the roof.

Other than Hussein Whiteside miraculously developing this year, can you name a single player that went on to make an All-Star team that averaged 2ppg/2.4rbs in their rookie year, then went on to average 6.3ppg/6.6rbs in their second year? Or what about a guy that had a PER of 13.5 in their second year?

I spent a while looking this up a while ago. There's absolutely no precedent that centers develop by age 25. Every great center in the NBA right now had really nice rookie seasons and were nearly dominate by their second season. And a lot of mediocre centers in the NBA had much better centers than Len had in his second season.

If you can find another player in NBA history that started as slow as Len and then went on to be a great player, I'd love to know his name.

Well, Tyson Chandler started off pretty slow, and he played more minutes than Len. If you look at their rookie per 36 stats, Len averaged more boards and Chandler more points, but that is it. Plus Len was injured much of his first season, so I bet he compares favorably to Chandlers first 42 games (Len played in 42 games as a rookie).

http://bkref.com/tiny/BIGZA

[JMac1]

I will end the Len discussion with this:

Some people understand and some people don't. Doesn't mater one way or the other to me. If you have to convince some one about Len, it is a waste of time because if they haven't seen it yet, they will never see it; until the media tells them it is ok to see it!

[saintEscaton]

I wouldn't even trade Len for Gobert if I could. Thats how much I trust in him

[RunDogGun]

I know that RunDogGun will love these news...

Suns 2014 2nd-round pick Alec Brown is on the summer team. The 7-1 shooter/shot-blocker is healthy after last summer's shoulder dislocation.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulcoro/status/618126981700300800

If he plays well I'd love it. I'm not really a fan of his, but if he can play well in the NBA and we have his rights, why wouldn't any Suns fan love that?

[bigfoot]

If the improvement in the team relies on Alex Len making 18 footers, we're in trouble.

I still think McDonough will trade Tucker and Morris. They're the only 2 players yet to be moved on by McDonough, they're the 2 offenders left in terms of team behaviours, and don't fit the shooting wing and rebounding big that he talked about needing more of.

With the Chandler move, it's too compromised now to rebuild, so you're either rebuilding or contending. I say we try to get Gallinari and Lee (if they can fit in cap) and make a run. 5 Borderline All-Stars and a young high ceiling bench (Goodwin, Booker, Warren, Len), and add a couple of vets like the contenders do and you have something.

Holy Hell Batman ... did you ever watch Amare. His first two years he was a very poor shooter from beyond 16 feet (.118 and .301 fg percentage). However he improved greatly from 16 feet and out in his third year (.459) and it was instrumental in his ability to get to the rim. Len taking 500+ shots a day from 20 feet and word from Ray Ray that the coaching staff thinks he can play PF is good enough for me.

[RunDogGun]

Speaking of great players like DMC and Kevin Love, I wonder what Yuta Tabuse is up to these days

5'9"? How tall was he again?

I just looked him up, and he is born on the best day in the year, same day as Grant Hill.

[NTB]

Guys what do you think about Leuer ? I think some of us undervalue him. He hit %38.5 from 3PT in his 3 seasons with MEM. His per 36 stats looking nice with 14.1 points 8.5 rebounds. He couldn't get his minutes because of Grizzlies' big men.

He can be our stretch four with above average rebounding which is good. I don't know how many minutes he will get but 20 mins might be ideal for him.

[RunDogGun]

Guys what do you think about Leuer ? I think some of us undervalue him. He hit %38.5 from 3PT in his 3 seasons with MEM. His per 36 stats looking nice with 14.1 points 8.5 rebounds. He couldn't get his minutes because of Grizzlies' big men.

He can be our stretch four with above average rebounding which is good. I don't know how many minutes he will get but 20 mins might be ideal for him.

Honestly, I'd still like to move him and McNeal for Anderson. With those two small contracts, we can absorb the rest of Anderson's contract, if NO is looking to dump salary.

If we could do that, then we sign Knight, and look for vet mins, and what we could get from the Goran trade exemption.

[NTB]

Guys what do you think about Leuer ? I think some of us undervalue him. He hit %38.5 from 3PT in his 3 seasons with MEM. His per 36 stats looking nice with 14.1 points 8.5 rebounds. He couldn't get his minutes because of Grizzlies' big men.

He can be our stretch four with above average rebounding which is good. I don't know how many minutes he will get but 20 mins might be ideal for him.

Honestly, I'd still like to move him and McNeal for Anderson. With those two small contracts, we can absorb the rest of Anderson's contract, if NO is looking to dump salary.

If we could do that, then we sign Knight, and look for vet mins, and what we could get from the Goran trade exemption.

Of course Anderson would be way better but i wondered what you guys think about Leuer.

[Barkley6]

I will end the Len discussion with this:

Some people understand and some people don't. Doesn't mater one way or the other to me. If you have to convince some one about Len, it is a waste of time because if they haven't seen it yet, they will never see it; until the media tells them it is ok to see it!

No one is denying Len has ability and potential, but eventually you have to put it all together. Wes Johnson had everything you'd want from a 2-guard on paper and potential through the roof, but wasn't ever able to get it together.

There comes a time when you have to actually DO something with that potential. I'm not saying Len's time is now, but it IS soon. If Len is as good as everyone claims he is, then he'll have a chance to showcase it this season playing against 2nd unit 4s and 5s. If he's not, then his trade value will be depleted next offseason. It's a dangerous game when you're talking about "potential".

[aIvin adams]

Guys what do you think about Leuer ? I think some of us undervalue him. He hit %38.5 from 3PT in his 3 seasons with MEM. His per 36 stats looking nice with 14.1 points 8.5 rebounds. He couldn't get his minutes because of Grizzlies' big men.

He can be our stretch four with above average rebounding which is good. I don't know how many minutes he will get but 20 mins might be ideal for him.

hope it works out. it didn't with tolliver. i haven't watched leuer play much.

a little surprised that suns fans don't think it's possible for Len to be an all-star player. not that i think it's likely, but holy heck the guy is in the 99th percentile of NBA size, has got great touch and a good looking shot, and can move his feet. if he stays healthy he will be a very good player. i don't htink all-star is likely ...but at the same time i can't understand thinking it's impossible

i'd say the odds are that Len is never as good a player as Tyson Chandlr will be next year. but it's possible..

[RunDogGun]

Guys what do you think about Leuer ? I think some of us undervalue him. He hit %38.5 from 3PT in his 3 seasons with MEM. His per 36 stats looking nice with 14.1 points 8.5 rebounds. He couldn't get his minutes because of Grizzlies' big men.

He can be our stretch four with above average rebounding which is good. I don't know how many minutes he will get but 20 mins might be ideal for him.

Honestly, I'd still like to move him and McNeal for Anderson. With those two small contracts, we can absorb the rest of Anderson's contract, if NO is looking to dump salary.

If we could do that, then we sign Knight, and look for vet mins, and what we could get from the Goran trade exemption.

Of course Anderson would be way better but i wondered what you guys think about Leuer.

Well I watched him kick our butts last year, and he looked good while doing it. If we don't get an Anderson or someone like him, I wouldn't mind seeing a Leuer/Len front court. We could run them with Warren, and have the spacing with Warren cutting. But our team thought Tolliver would open up space, and it just didn't work for us.

But I'm still also interested to see if Alec Brown can do something in summer league and/or Harrellson. Alec is still a shot blocker, so pairing him with Len, could be a nice paint protection. Then there is Patric Young too. A lot of hustle and toughness could be in our bench front court.

I'm sure McD is watching this summer league to see guys that may have not been drafted, or may be behind a few guys when regular season comes about.