Free Agency Thread -David West to Spurs for free

Nowak008 · Post #3201 » by **Nowak008** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 9:51 pm

I wish West woulda ended up in Dallas instead.

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InsideOut · Post #3202 » by **InsideOut** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 9:52 pm

Rendei wrote:
emunney wrote:I like competition and hate frontrunning. The Lakers played pretty ball with Phil and Shaq but I still hated it when Malone and Payton tried to draft on them.

Agreed. I've never been a fan of veteran players signing with the best teams at huge discounts in an attempt to disrupt the competitive balance, either. It's a damn shame that it's now happening with the Spurs.

I couldn't disagree more with you guys. These players get ripped all the time for being all about the money and putting cash ahead of titles and now here they are getting ripped when they put winning above the cash. How can they ever win? Take the money and they are greedy or go for the ring and they are front runners. I'll never have a problem with a player or team that puts winning over $$$$$$$$$.

If fans don't blame players for trying to sign for the most money they can I don't see how you can blame them for trying to sign with the best team they can. I mean at the end of the day you want one or the other (or both if you can get it).

Rendei · Post #3203 » by **Rendei** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:04 pm

InsideOut wrote:
Rendei wrote:
emunney wrote:I like competition and hate frontrunning. The Lakers played pretty ball with Phil and Shaq but I still hated it when Malone and Payton tried to draft on them.

Agreed. I've never been a fan of veteran players signing with the best teams at huge discounts in an attempt to disrupt the competitive balance, either. It's a damn shame that it's now happening with the Spurs.

I couldn't disagree more with you guys. These players get ripped all the time for being all about the money and putting cash ahead of titles and now here they are getting ripped when they put winning above the cash. How can they ever win? Take the money and they are greedy or go for the ring and they are front runners. I'll never have a problem with a player or team that puts winning over $$$$$$$$$.

If a guy turns down $15 mil and losing in order to accept $12 mil and winning, that's one thing. This... this is something else. How can other teams be expected to compete if the good teams get guys for 10% of the cost?

For the record, I've never liked this with any team. And I still won't like it if the Bucks get really good and start doing it. It unbalances the league.

InsideOut · Post #3204 » by **InsideOut** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:14 pm

Rendei wrote:
InsideOut wrote:
Rendei wrote:
Agreed. I've never been a fan of veteran players signing with the best teams at huge discounts in an attempt to disrupt the competitive balance, either. It's a damn shame that it's now happening with the Spurs.

I couldn't disagree more with you guys. These players get ripped all the time for being all about the money and putting cash ahead of titles and now here they are getting ripped when they put winning above the cash. How can they ever win? Take the money and they are greedy or go for the ring and they are front runners. I'll never have a problem with a player or team that puts winning over $$$$$$$$$.

If a guy turns down $15 mil and losing in order to accept $12 mil and winning, that's one thing. This... this is something else. How can other teams be expected to compete if the good teams get guys for 10% of the cost?

For the record, I've never liked this with any team. And I still won't like it if the Bucks get really good and start doing it. It unbalances the league.

The Spurs aren't the only team to have done this so this isn't anything new. Other teams have the ability to do the same thing.

The league doesn't care about balance so why should the players? Besides, this isn't kickball at recess. This is about building the best team you can and winning titles and not about what is fair. If the NBA wanted fair we'd have a hard cap, franchise tags and other stuff.

Nobody blames a player for trying to sign for the most money he can so why blame a player that values winning over money for signing with the best team he can? I can't fault anyone for wanting to work for the best organization they can.

bdpecore · Post #3205 » by **bdpecore** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:28 pm

Rendei wrote:
InsideOut wrote:
Rendei wrote:
Agreed. I've never been a fan of veteran players signing with the best teams at huge discounts in an attempt to disrupt the competitive balance, either. It's a damn shame that it's now happening with the Spurs.

I couldn't disagree more with you guys. These players get ripped all the time for being all about the money and putting cash ahead of titles and now here they are getting ripped when they put winning above the cash. How can they ever win? Take the money and they are greedy or go for the ring and they are front runners. I'll never have a problem with a player or team that puts winning over $$$$$$$$$.

If a guy turns down $15 mil and losing in order to accept $12 mil and winning, that's one thing. This... this is something else. How can other teams be expected to compete if the good teams get guys for 10% of the cost?

For the record, I've never liked this with any team. And I still won't like it if the Bucks get really good and start doing it. It unbalances the league.

It all has to do with the players within the organization. Kobe contini=ues to sign max salary contracts while Duncan signed a 3yr/$30M deal and Manu signed for 2yrs/$14.5M. This allows cap space to extend their own players (i.e. Leonard and Green) while still leaving enough cap space to sign quality role players. This is why the Spurs signed LMA and West and the Lakers signed Williams and Bass.

ajb905 · Post #3206 » by **ajb905** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:33 pm

I prefer when players get as much money as possible (except when it's the Bucks ;-)

), as I'd rather see them making money than the owners. And while I can sympathize with a player near the end of his career chasing a ring and taking a discount, this is pretty extreme. I remember being upset with AK47 went for peanuts to the Nets (and that didn't turn out well for them), but this is a much bigger steal. I love the Spurs as a model organization and most of their players, but this type of blatant team stacking is unseemly. Will definitely be rooting against them this year and hope they get busted Twolves style for under the table deals with these guys to take less than market value.

Rendei · Post #3207 » by **Rendei** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:35 pm

InsideOut wrote:The Spurs aren't the only team to have done this so this isn't anything new. Other teams have the ability to do the same thing.

The league doesn't care about balance so why should the players? Besides, this isn't kickball at recess. This is about building the best team you can and winning titles and not about what is fair. If the NBA wanted fair we'd have a hard cap, franchise tags and other stuff.

Nobody blames a player for trying to sign for the most money he can so why blame a player that values winning over money for signing with the best team he can? I can't fault anyone for wanting to work for the best organization they can.

Well yeah, but I've always appreciated the Spurs for not being "that guy."

The league does what it can. That's why these things like luxury taxes and profit sharing exist. The league ultimately cares about two things. Money and entertainment. Competitive balance helps with both. The NBA also can't install things like a hard cap and franchise tags because the NBPA would literally NEVER go for it.

From the outside it appears the equivalent of whoring yourself out at some point. Like how much do you want to buy a ring for? I dunno, just my view point on it I guess.

Ayt · Post #3208 » by **Ayt** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 11:03 pm

Spurs get an asterisk if they win it all after signing LA and West. They are supposed to be built not bought.

Balls2TheWalls · Post #3209 » by **Balls2TheWalls** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 11:29 pm

These kinds of contracts are the things keeping small market teams out of competition. The only thing those teams have to compete are the cap space and contracts that they can offer these players. Subsidizing already dominant teams by taking league minimum contracts is really against the spirit of competition. I hated it when Payton and Malone did it, and I hate it now that West is doing it.

vital_signs · Post #3210 » by **vital_signs** » Mon Jul 6, 2015 11:52 pm

I dont know how people can bash S.A. for being an attractive place to play. Screams jealousy

raferfenix · Post #3211 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:02 am

Will the Spurs have salary space after the cap balloons next year to help West recoup at least some of his money on a second contract?

Impressive level of commitment either way to say the least.

TheWig · Post #3212 » by **TheWig** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:08 am

Ayt wrote:Spurs get an asterisk if they win it all after signing LA and West. They are supposed to be built not bought.

M-C-G · Post #3213 » by **M-C-G** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:12 am

Balls2TheWalls wrote:These kinds of contracts are the things keeping small market teams out of competition. The only thing those teams have to compete are the cap space and contracts that they can offer these players. Subsidizing already dominant teams by taking league minimum contracts is really against the spirit of competition. I hated it when Payton and Malone did it, and I hate it now that West is doing it.

Like the small market of San Antonio? Guess what, this is what happens when you build a winning culture, just like the Packers have done.

Being envious of it is one thing, hating teams and players that prioritize winning and happiness over money is just dumb.

drew881 · Post #3214 » by **drew881** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:19 am

raferfenix wrote:Will the Spurs have salary space after the cap balloons next year to help West recoup at least some of his money on a second contract?

Impressive level of commitment either way to say the least.

I wonder if teams are doing some wink wink deals with players to get them back once the cap goes up in exchange for one cheap year. West's deal could be that, with a promise of a more expanded role the year after once Duncan retires.

The Paul Pierce contract to me is something else. It is minor cap circumvention. He probably could have signed with someone for a one year 5 million dollar deal in next year's cap, which isn't the leap year. Instead, he signs a 3 year 9 mil deal. This makes no sense to me, other than for cap circumvention. If Pierce were to play 3 more years, why not sign 1 year deals year after year for more money? He probably could make the same 5 year deals that he had with the Nets, if not more because the cap goes up. I think Pierce and the Clippers totally have a deal where he will retire after next year, and while he will still be on the books in those following years, the hit is minimized in the most important year - next year.

Chuck Diesel · Post #3215 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:19 am

Mirza or Gigi. Gigi or Mirza.

Plossum · Post #3216 » by **Plossum** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:24 am

Free market as far as I'm concerned. Nobody held a gun to West's head. He should be able to sign whatever contract he wants.

Power to the spurs for making it happen.

Ayt · Post #3217 » by **Ayt** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:27 am

TheWig wrote:
Ayt wrote:Spurs get an asterisk if they win it all after signing LA and West. They are supposed to be built not bought.

I definitely wasn't being serious though I do like that image.

MikeIsGood · Post #3218 » by **MikeIsGood** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:36 am

Nowak008 wrote:I wish West woulda ended up in Dallas instead.

So that he could be on a team definitely not contending for a title?

Jez2983 · Post #3219 » by **Jez2983** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:40 am

I can get people being upset at what's happened, but the guys who play for the Spurs are all stand-up blokes.

It makes a lot more sense to hate on super-friend teams and Kobe recruiting Payton as they characters are all so dislikeable, and are well known for their douchebaggery. Again I don't get the Malone hate as he seemed a good dude and I think he would have deserved a championship. Certainly more than Adam Morrison.

Hell, didn't Drexler do something similar with the Rockets? May not have signed but asked to be traded to a contender. It's been going on for ages...

SkilesTheLimit · Post #3220 » by **SkilesTheLimit** » Tue Jul 7, 2015 12:44 am

Tim Duncan is the most unselfish superstar in the history of the NBA.

While Kobe is sitting there wallowing in losing misery collecting his $20 mil+'annual salary, Duncan is essentially playing for free to allow Pop to surround him with a championship contending team year after year.

If anyone is to "blame" it's Duncan for taking far less than market value for his services all these years.

I think it's freaking awesome that a player buys into a program so earnestly that he's willing to sacrifice money for the sole purpose of adding another championship ring to his collection. They are the model franchise for every NBA team to emulate. Anyone who thinks otherwise are pure haters.