Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[RunDogGun]

Kieff for Andrew Nicholson and Aaron Gordon

I like Gordon, but there's no range in his game yet.
Ryan Anderson is the best realistic fit.

No range in his game yet is a very nice way of putting it. The guy can't make free throws.

His free throw is bad, but in SL, he is 3-7 from three in two games, which isn't bad.

[bwgood77]

I like Gordon, but there's no range in his game yet.
Ryan Anderson is the best realistic fit.

No range in his game yet is a very nice way of putting it. The guy can't make free throws.

His free throw is bad, but in SL, he is 3-7 from three in two games, which isn't bad.

Well that's good. Sounds like he has put in some work. But he did even occasionally shoot some 3s in college. Maybe Frye has been working with him. Frye wasn't really a long range shooter in college either.

[jcsunsfan]

Kieff is better than all these guys being he could supposedly trade for.

I want none of it. Kieff is a quality asset whose value is particularly low at the moment. He has now been free from being tied to his brother, and that makes him even more valuable.

Keep him unless something really good comes along.

[AtheJ415]

Where is this Aaron Gordon stuff coming from?

I doubt he's available. If he is, anybody holing back Kieff for him is crazy. Gordon does everything well except shoot. He's still young and can improve in that area, with crazy athletic potential.

[Djedefre]

Kieff for Andrew Nicholson and Aaron Gordon

I like Gordon, but there's no range in his game yet.
Ryan Anderson is the best realistic fit.

No range in his game yet is a very nice way of putting it. The guy can't make free throws.

I'm kinda convinced that he'll improve his shooting in time but we simply don't have the luxury of acquiring another young player needing space for development when we already got not 1 but 4 such (Len, Archie, Booker, Warren). Not to mention Knight who played few seasons but still shapes his potential.

[AtheJ415]

I like Gordon, but there's no range in his game yet.
Ryan Anderson is the best realistic fit.

No range in his game yet is a very nice way of putting it. The guy can't make free throws.

I'm kinda convinced that he'll improve his shooting in time but we simply don't have the luxury of acquiring another young player needing space for development when we already got not 1 but 4 such (Len, Archie, Booker, Warren). Not to mention Knight who played few seasons but still shapes his potential.

That's craziness to me. We're rebuilding and have no PF in that group, and at worst with Gordon you have an elite defender, ballhandler, and athlete. He's not really a risk in terms of being a solid future starter.

[Djedefre]

No range in his game yet is a very nice way of putting it. The guy can't make free throws.

I'm kinda convinced that he'll improve his shooting in time but we simply don't have the luxury of acquiring another young player needing space for development when we already got not 1 but 4 such (Len, Archie, Booker, Warren). Not to mention Knight who played few seasons but still shapes his potential.

That's craziness to me. We're rebuilding and have no PF in that group, and at worst with Gordon you have an elite defender, ballhandler, and athlete. He's not really a risk in terms of being a solid future starter.

Balance is the key. Personally, after LMA blow off, i don't have anything against the 'trade for young talent' strategy, but we mustn't rush into the trap of overloading our roster with young prospects. It would be very hard for any of them to build up their game surrounded with others having exactly the same need - to improve. You can't develop 5,6 players at the same time. It's impossible to give 'em all that needed attention and space.

[Mr-Al]

No range in his game yet is a very nice way of putting it. The guy can't make free throws.

I'm kinda convinced that he'll improve his shooting in time but we simply don't have the luxury of acquiring another young player needing space for development when we already got not 1 but 4 such (Len, Archie, Booker, Warren). Not to mention Knight who played few seasons but still shapes his potential.

That's craziness to me. We're rebuilding and have no PF in that group, and at worst with Gordon you have an elite defender, ballhandler, and athlete. He's not really a risk in terms of being a solid future starter.

I'd like Gordon a lot too actually, he has elite 3&D potential imo, but he's really, really raw

[Mr-Al]

Don't we have enough cap space that we can absorb, what like 8-10mil without giving up any players? Possibly a pick if we are getting someone valuable, otherwise a salary dump from another team.

Yes, that's why I suggested to Leuer/McNeal for Anderson. I think we have around $9 if we don't have other cap holds I don't know about. And that's before we sign Knight. Once we sign Knight, we will be well over the cap.

Why in God's name would the Pelicans trade Anderson for Leuer/McNeal? Or are you in the "if the Pels definitely want to dump salary or Anderson" mode, which is an extremely unlikely mode for them to be in.

This. It doesn't hurt them at all to hold on to him, let alone trade him for garbage

[krishanson]

Based on the signing of Chandler, the desire by McD to trade for Knight, and the hesitance to resign Frye for the amount of money he demanded, I think the FO wants to go in a direction that is focused around athleticism and defense. Also, McDonough clearly likes flexible and trade-friendly contracts.

There are a few issues with Ryan Anderson that I think makes him unlikely in a trade. The most obvious is that he's injury prone. Throughout his career, he's played an average of 60 games a season and that's a huge risk since the Suns don't have very much depth at the PF position right now. Secondly, he's an absolutely terrible defender. Like, a lot worse than Kieff. And he's gotten worse with injuries. As great as he is on offense, his defense pretty much erases any positive production he can give you. Over the last 3 seasons, his ORtg/DRtg is 113/112. This past season, he put up 109/110. His WS/48 was .100, which was the second lowest of his career. Lastly, his contract expires this season so he might just be a 1 season rental that would most likely be injured for 20 games. And to keep him beyond next season, we'd ultimately have to grossly overpay an injury prone PF who can't play defense to save his life.

I'm not necessarily saying Kieff is better than Ryan Anderson. Other than the 13-14 season playing off the bench, Kieff hasn't been great from an analytics perspective and contrary to popular belief, Kieff was pretty awful on offense in 14-15. And of course there's all the off the court stuff. But over the last 3 seasons, he's played in 245/246 possible games, only missing 1 game in 13-14 due to suspension, and he's under contract for 4 more years at $8M/yr. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to make a deal for Anderson.

[RunDogGun]

Yes, that's why I suggested to Leuer/McNeal for Anderson. I think we have around $9 if we don't have other cap holds I don't know about. And that's before we sign Knight. Once we sign Knight, we will be well over the cap.

Why in God's name would the Pelicans trade Anderson for Leuer/McNeal? Or are you in the "if the Pels definitely want to dump salary or Anderson" mode, which is an extremely unlikely mode for them to be in.

This. It doesn't hurt them at all to hold on to him, let alone trade him for garbage

I was just thinking since Gordon picked up his $15 mil, they just signed Asik to $12 mil, and they also just resigned Cunningham. So is there really a need for another 4 coming off the bench at $8 million? Plus Leuer can shoot the three and would only cost them $1 million.

So again, it would hinge on whether they wanted to shed salary.

[RunDogGun]

Based on the signing of Chandler, the desire by McD to trade for Knight, and the hesitance to resign Frye for the amount of money he demanded, I think the FO wants to go in a direction that is focused around athleticism and defense. Also, McDonough clearly likes flexible and trade-friendly contracts.

There are a few issues with Ryan Anderson that I think makes him unlikely in a trade. The most obvious is that he's injury prone. Throughout his career, he's played an average of 60 games a season and that's a huge risk since the Suns don't have very much depth at the PF position right now. Secondly, he's an absolutely terrible defender. Like, a lot worse than Kieff. And he's gotten worse with injuries. As great as he is on offense, his defense pretty much erases any positive production he can give you. Over the last 3 seasons, his ORtg/DRtg is 113/112. This past season, he put up 109/110. His WS/48 was .100, which was the second lowest of his career. Lastly, his contract expires this season so he might just be a 1 season rental that would most likely be injured for 20 games. And to keep him beyond next season, we'd ultimately have to grossly overpay an injury prone PF who can't play defense to save his life.

I'm not necessarily saying Kieff is better than Ryan Anderson. Other than the 13-14 season playing off the bench, Kieff hasn't been great from an analytics perspective and contrary to popular belief, Kieff was pretty awful on offense in 14-15. And of course there's all the off the court stuff. But over the last 3 seasons, he's played in 245/246 possible games, only missing 1 game in 13-14 due to suspension, and he's under contract for 4 more years at $8M/yr. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to make a deal for Anderson.

It makes sense if we keep Markieff, and use other assets to acquire Anderson.

[krishanson]

It makes sense if we keep Markieff, and use other assets to acquire Anderson.

Yeah, he'd be an awesome backup PF. He can definitely score off the bench and right now, the Suns don't have a lot of scorers like they did with IT and Green. But I don't see the Pelicans trading him for our smaller contracts and he still has a nice fit on their roster, even with their other big men. If the Pelicans were still in rebuilding mod, it'd make sense but I think they're passed the point of trading valuable players for smaller assets like mid 1st round picks or expiring contracts, especially when Anderson's contract is already expiring.

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/618441317907992576[/tweet]

[RunDogGun]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/618441317907992576[/tweet]

So what is his resume?

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/618441317907992576[/tweet]

So what is his resume?

http://www.nba.com/sixers/front_office/courtney_witte.html

Director of Player Personnel for the Sixers since September 2003. Last summer he left Philly and was hired by the Clippers.

[AtheJ415]

Based on the signing of Chandler, the desire by McD to trade for Knight, and the hesitance to resign Frye for the amount of money he demanded, I think the FO wants to go in a direction that is focused around athleticism and defense. Also, McDonough clearly likes flexible and trade-friendly contracts.

There are a few issues with Ryan Anderson that I think makes him unlikely in a trade. The most obvious is that he's injury prone. Throughout his career, he's played an average of 60 games a season and that's a huge risk since the Suns don't have very much depth at the PF position right now. Secondly, he's an absolutely terrible defender. Like, a lot worse than Kieff. And he's gotten worse with injuries. As great as he is on offense, his defense pretty much erases any positive production he can give you. Over the last 3 seasons, his ORtg/DRtg is 113/112. This past season, he put up 109/110. His WS/48 was .100, which was the second lowest of his career. Lastly, his contract expires this season so he might just be a 1 season rental that would most likely be injured for 20 games. And to keep him beyond next season, we'd ultimately have to grossly overpay an injury prone PF who can't play defense to save his life.

I'm not necessarily saying Kieff is better than Ryan Anderson. Other than the 13-14 season playing off the bench, Kieff hasn't been great from an analytics perspective and contrary to popular belief, Kieff was pretty awful on offense in 14-15. And of course there's all the off the court stuff. But over the last 3 seasons, he's played in 245/246 possible games, only missing 1 game in 13-14 due to suspension, and he's under contract for 4 more years at $8M/yr. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to make a deal for Anderson.

It makes sense if we keep Markieff, and use other assets to acquire Anderson.

The WS numbers are important, and you have a strong point there, but injury history isn't a big deal to me. The FO won't trade for anyone without the training staff signing off on it, and if there's anything we should trust it's the training staff.

[ShawnBronald]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/618490858245992449[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/618491584137408512[/tweet]

[RunDogGun]

Not a bad trade for the Celtics.

[Bogyo]

Not a bad trade for the Celtics.

Yup, they got a one year rental, and a huge expiring. If they wish, now they can dangle Sully or Oly in a trade, and you know Ainge is always keen to shuffle the deck, until he finds his superstar.