SVG and our roster compared with a Dumars roster

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 4:49 pm

In our various threads we discuss different aspects of our roster. Is it better than last year? (yes), who is going to get how many minutes, anything else we need to do this offseason, etc, etc. One very cool thing about our roster, and this is sooooooo much different than the Dumar's years, is that we don't have any thrash players that we need to dump (or even give away 1st round picks to get rid of). Seriously, looking at the roster, sure there are areas I'd like to improve, but no more Villaneuva, no more Ben Gordon, no more Josh Smith. I think we finally have a good "team" and from top to bottom we seem to have good "value" players. One of the many reasons why I like SVG.

princeofpalace · Post #2 » by **princeofpalace** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 4:53 pm

Yes, SVG did not overpay any mediocre and ill fitting FAs- which was Dumars offseason philosophy. Although I don't think this team is going anywhere except the lottery, atleast its cohesive which is more than what I can say for a Dumars offseason.

Kilo · Post #3 » by **Kilo** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 5:06 pm

Dumars' problem was he could never get players to fit a coaching system because he went though coaches like one does underwear. H sort of had his (Dumars') system and wanted to find a coach to make it work.

Stan being the coach knows what players he needs to fit what he wants to do, and being GM(basically) can then target the players that will best fill that fit/need, not necessarily the best player on the market or the sexiest name.

Stan's team is all about Dre. He's all in on him and we're about to find out if he's right for better or worse. I take certain solace in the fact that he was around a young D12 and saw him in practice every day, and talked to him every day. He was also around prime Alonzo Mourning and still very high level Shaq.

The Penguin · Post #4 » by **The Penguin** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 5:10 pm

theBigLip wrote:In our various threads we discuss different aspects of our roster. Is it better than last year? (yes), who is going to get how many minutes, anything else we need to do this offseason, etc, etc. One very cool thing about our roster, and this is sooooooo much different than the Dumar's years, is that we don't have any thrash players that we need to dump (or even give away 1st round picks to get rid of). Seriously, looking at the roster, sure there are areas I'd like to improve, but no more Villaneuva, no more Ben Gordon, no more Josh Smith. I think we finally have a good "team" and from top to bottom we seem to have good "value" players. One of the many reasons why I like SVG.

Not to rain on anything, but Reggie has the potential to be one of those contracts. At one point in time, Ben Gordon & Josh Smith were highly thought of commodities.

I think the biggest thing is no log jams at any one position and versatility across the board. First Joe loaded up on combo/shooting guards (Rip/Gordon/AI/Stucky) then he loaded up on 3 guys who didn't fit (Drummond/Monroe/Smith). So many of Dumars guys could only play one position (CV31 / Smith / Gordon / Rip / Tayshaun / Jennings) while guys like Morris / Stanimal / Reggie can switch between multiple spots. Drummond and Baynes are likely the only 2 guys who would struggle to play together now, otherwise you can play this roster in variety of different combinations.

Post #5 » by **theBigLip** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 5:37 pm

The Penguin wrote:
theBigLip wrote:In our various threads we discuss different aspects of our roster. Is it better than last year? (yes), who is going to get how many minutes, anything else we need to do this offseason, etc, etc. One very cool thing about our roster, and this is sooooooo much different than the Dumar's years, is that we don't have any thrash players that we need to dump (or even give away 1st round picks to get rid of). Seriously, looking at the roster, sure there are areas I'd like to improve, but no more Villaneuva, no more Ben Gordon, no more Josh Smith. I think we finally have a good "team" and from top to bottom we seem to have good "value" players. One of the many reasons why I like SVG.

Not to rain on anything, but Reggie has the potential to be one of those contracts. At one point in time, Ben Gordon & Josh Smith were highly thought of commodities.

I guess that could be valid. RJ is getting paid a lot and could become a bloated contract if he doesn't perform. But I think it is just as likely, if not more, that he actually becomes an underpaid PG by way outperforming his contract. Of course, the rising salary cap will help in that regard.

El Chivo · Post #6 » by **El Chivo** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 5:40 pm

at last we have a Drummond-oriented roster. he must step up and make us more than a jump-shooting team.

The Penguin · Post #7 » by **The Penguin** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 5:41 pm

theBigLip wrote:
The Penguin wrote:
theBigLip wrote:In our various threads we discuss different aspects of our roster. Is it better than last year? (yes), who is going to get how many minutes, anything else we need to do this offseason, etc, etc. One very cool thing about our roster, and this is sooooooo much different than the Dumar's years, is that we don't have any thrash players that we need to dump (or even give away 1st round picks to get rid of). Seriously, looking at the roster, sure there are areas I'd like to improve, but no more Villaneuva, no more Ben Gordon, no more Josh Smith. I think we finally have a good "team" and from top to bottom we seem to have good "value" players. One of the many reasons why I like SVG.

Not to rain on anything, but Reggie has the potential to be one of those contracts. At one point in time, Ben Gordon & Josh Smith were highly thought of commodities.

I guess that could be valid. RJ is getting paid a lot and could become a bloated contract if he doesn't perform. But I think it is just as likely, if not more, that he actually becomes an underpaid PG by way outperforming his contract. Of course, the rising salary cap will help in that regard.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in Reggie and am hopeful he makes the deal look very good, just saying a lot of people had high hopes for Gordon.

But yes, the rising cap will make his deal very manageable.

E-Z · Post #8 » by **E-Z** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 6:24 pm

The past is the past.

Post #9 » by **theBigLip** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 6:32 pm

E-Z wrote:The past is the past.

But it is nice to see differences from the past, hopefully it will bring different results.

Navas · Post #10 » by **Navas** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 7:15 pm

Only difference right now is that we have some continuity for the first time. Last time Dumars had a stable coach was Flip.

ImHeisenberg · Post #11 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Wed Jul 8, 2015 7:23 pm

The Penguin wrote:
Not to rain on anything, but Reggie has the potential to be one of those contracts. At one point in time, Ben Gordon & Josh Smith were highly thought of commodities.

Sure, but we didn't see how Ben, Charlie and Josh would play under their new coach and with the surrounding players. We were able to see that with Reggie last season. He is a fit. Not a perfect fit, as his three point shooting comes and goes. But, we know he plays great with Drummond.

At worst, I think Reggie will be a good point guard for Detroit, just not spectacular.

Blkbrd671 · Post #12 » by **Blkbrd671** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:07 am

i feel like dumars would have

Given carrol 18 million
Traded a 1st round pick + Jennings for David Lee
Sign and Traded monroe for a bunch of crap contracts +2nd rounder

Looking at our roster, we have shooters and defenders that fit around our "talented" players....with a competent coach and GM, its like night and day from Dumars. The only contract i want to shed is Jennings, and its not because he's paid too much.

This is why i'll never understand the 76ers plan, SVG looks to be turning his team around in under 2 seasons

Post #13 » by **dVs33** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:30 am

I think it all comes down to having a system and a direction.

SVG has a game plan which is basically a "4 out 1 in" system based around Drummond.
He gets guys who can fit that system and guys that fit with the personality he likes.

Dumars seemed to swing for the fences with very little reasoning or logic behind it. In the second half of his time as GM he didn't seem to have any direction. That also includes his choice of coaches. There was a revolving door of coaches and talent that didn't compliment each other. Not a plan for success.

Montanabadboy · Post #14 » by **Montanabadboy** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:57 am

dVs33 wrote:I think it all comes down to having a system and a direction.

SVG has a game plan which is basically a "4 out 1 in" system based around Drummond.
He gets guys who can fit that system and guys that fit with the personality he likes.

Dumars seemed to swing for the fences with very little reasoning or logic behind it. In the second half of his time as GM he didn't seem to have any direction. That also includes his choice of coaches. There was a revolving door of coaches and talent that didn't compliment each other. Not a plan for success.

Exactly! That's what makes me excited, we know what kind of team we are, we know what we want to be, and we're building towards something. No more throwing 5 guys out there with no direction and seeing what happens.

OneBadMutha · Post #15 » by **OneBadMutha** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:12 am

Biggest difference is that the GM and coach are finally on the same page.

After Flip Saunders, I think the Pistons couldn't get a respectable coach to come here. There was no system or team identity to plug the assets into. Dumars became better at drafting but couldn't get players, coach, and system to mesh. Ironic considering the 2004 team.

This is what I like about Stan having final say over the roster. As long as he's not getting fleeced by other GMs, you know that he's going after players that will have a role here and fit what he's trying to do.

SAKURABA216 · Post #16 » by **SAKURABA216** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:15 am

Kilo wrote:Dumars' problem was he could never get players to fit a coaching system because he went though coaches like one does underwear. H sort of had his (Dumars') system and wanted to find a coach to make it work.

Stan being the coach knows what players he needs to fit what he wants to do, and being GM(basically) can then target the players that will best fill that fit/need, not necessarily the best player on the market or the sexiest name.

Stan's team is all about Dre. He's all in on him and we're about to find out if he's right for better or worse. I take certain solace in the fact that he was around a young D12 and saw him in practice every day, and talked to him every day. He was also around prime Alonzo Mourning and still very high level Shaq.

Stated perfectly. Under Dumars the team never had a real identity after the championship roster was broken up, seemed like he just wanted to acquire talent and think about how all the parts fit together afterwards. He also seemed to have a real hard-on for combo guards like himself, but neither Stuckey nor Knight could actually run the offense. At least SVG knows the type of team he wants to build.

bkseven · Post #17 » by **bkseven** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:59 am

princeofpalace wrote:Yes, SVG did not overpay any mediocre and ill fitting FAs- which was Dumars offseason philosophy. Although I don't think this team is going anywhere except the lottery, atleast its cohesive which is more than what I can say for a Dumars offseason.

Baynes and Reggie could end up being very overpaid if they don't perform. Meeks will need to play better or be considered an overpaid FA signing

Post #18 » by **Cowology** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 3:45 am

Great points about fit and identity.

We had talent under Dumars but it never seemed to mesh. You saw that in both high priced FA who underperformed as well as in our inability to develop our own picks.

I do think Dumars had a vision, but as somebody else said in another he was trying to plug square pegs into round holes. He wanted every guard we had to play like him. He wanted CV and Josh to be Sheed. He got locked into an idea and it tainted everything he did. He kept trying to recreate something instead of trying to get the most out of what he had.

Stan on the other hand is going after fit as much as talent. He also has a vision, but one which is in unison with the players we have and are targeting. There is synergy within our roster that has been lacking. Whether it works or not we'll have to wait and see but this is a throw back to the Carlisle days when we actually maximized our potential instead of burying it.

Pharaoh · Post #19 » by **Pharaoh** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 8:33 am

I think the biggest thing will be fit - as stated numerous times SVG beefed up oir scouting department in order to run a ruler over the entire league and find guys that fit the system.

Time will tell if we've found those guys but I can't imagine us trading for dudes that don't fit. Stan watches too much film to make that mistake

Joe? Seemed to he throwing money at a problem with no idea what that problem was!

The year we signed BG & CV we had $18 mil in space, Stuckey, Billups, Rip, Double A, Maxiell & Prince locked in - why sign BG at all? Why sign a perimeter 4?

We needed bigs that could play inside...and in the end traded Double A to clear additional space to sign Chris Wilcox lol

The year we signed Josh Smith & traded for Jennings we had Dre, Monroe, Middleton, KCP & Knight...why move those guys on?

Because Gores said he wanted the playoffs? So tell him to STFU & be patient, sign some role playing vets and see what you have...

But Joe had lost it by then. He stuck around 5 years too long. We should thank Gores every day for SVG cause at the very least he's gonna put the work in to turn this thing around