OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

[Marcus50]

There seems to be a general acceptance among OKC supporters that Adams, after earning the starting role at the start of last season will happily roll over in favour of Kanter starting. I am not so sure that it is going to do his confidence any favors at all. Essentially it is management signalling to him that he was not up to the starters role. Presti went hard after 3 potential starters at center initially trying to sign Pau Gasol, then Brook Lopez and finally Kanter. So you wonder what messaging Adams is getting from the coaching staff and management while all this pantomime around the Kanter resigning is going on.

I suspect Adams might be a little more competitive than many give him credit for and losing the starting role is going to sting a little especially if his minutes are more limited as they are likely to be.

[bondom34]

I'm OK with either starting at this point tbh, and honestly I think Adams is a competitor. The fact that you were being considered benched for Pau Gasol isn't something to be ashamed of, nor Lopez.

[Marcus50]

I'm OK with either starting at this point tbh, and honestly I think Adams is a competitor. The fact that you were being considered benched for Pau Gasol isn't something to be ashamed of, nor Lopez.

Agree and I expect it would be easy to accept a Gasol or Lopez taking your starting gig. Not quite so sure about Kanter

[bondom34]

I'm OK with either starting at this point tbh, and honestly I think Adams is a competitor. The fact that you were being considered benched for Pau Gasol isn't something to be ashamed of, nor Lopez.

Agree and I expect it would be easy to accept a Gasol or Lopez taking your starting gig. Not quite so sure about Kanter

We don't know for sure Kanter's starting . Honestly, I'm torn and I think at the worst they have an even split. Adams may start anyway.

[Thunderhead]

How do you quantify , a player on the team who holds other players accountable to play defense ?

You can't. All the advanced stats in the world won't measure that.

What I know for sure, is that after Perk left this past season, the defense went to chit . I can't put that into statistical form, its just what happened.

The defense was about league average so long as Enes Kanter was not present on the court. Serge Ibaka only playing 350 minutes after the trade due to injury had a bigger effect on the defense being poor than Perkins being missing.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think our defense is doomed next season if we don't sign Perkins?

I have suspicions, that the focus is changing to offense. In spite of how it may have appeared, when Presti said the Thunder were a defensive team first, that created offense from stops and TO's , and wanted to play offense in transition .... that was not just coach speak or empty cliche.

I would have to see what develops. We got a clue yesterday when Donovan says he likes what Roberson brought to the starting unit. But there's much more to be revealed, the rest of that interview with Darnell was focused on offense. Right now, I got a hunch this team will be more about offense than defense.

So to say they would be " doomed " without Perk , no .... but if playing defense was the focus, he's a good guy to have on your team. But I think Presti is moving on to something new, so Perk became very expendable.

You also over look , that Perk was a vet on a young team, that needed a veteran's presence. Perk also could see and anticipate what was happening on the court and communicate. That's something a young rookie just can't do. You can not discount experience. Mark Gasol and ZBo can't jump over a phone book, but they together, make one of the better inside defenses in the league. Its not all about athletic ability nor offense.

[Thunderhead]

Oh, I certainly see Perk as a value move. He wasn't traded til he was semi palatable in trade and even then needed a draft pick attached. There were better players available most likely sooner, and I stick up for Perk when I see it, but his trade definitely smelled of timing to maximize value.

What this discussion boils down to ..... is the same old argument about whether to amnesty Perk.

And the same old question comes up, if he were amnestied, who was going to start at center, and this is where it becomes nothing more than speculation and subjective opinion.

I think if Presti thought he could have improved that position earlier than he did, he would've made that move, and the only move realistically available, was amnesty of Perk.

Presti used the draft to replace Perk , which is his MO . Adams was Perks' replacement, and Perks role changed to being a mentor. Adams minutes slowly increased with time, until he was the starter.

And really, I don't see a lot wrong with expecting value in return for a player. Maybe GSW's move for Iggy paid off, but it could've gone south also. GSW made a lot of other changes AFTER they acquired Iggy.

[Old Man Game]

There seems to be a general acceptance among OKC supporters that Adams, after earning the starting role at the start of last season will happily roll over in favour of Kanter starting. I am not so sure that it is going to do his confidence any favors at all. Essentially it is management signalling to him that he was not up to the starters role. Presti went hard after 3 potential starters at center initially trying to sign Pau Gasol, then Brook Lopez and finally Kanter. So you wonder what messaging Adams is getting from the coaching staff and management while all this pantomime around the Kanter resigning is going on.

I suspect Adams might be a little more competitive than many give him credit for and losing the starting role is going to sting a little especially if his minutes are more limited as they are likely to be.

Interesting thought. I would assume Kanter coming back and being made the starter means Steven will eventually be the Asik to Kanter's Noah or the Gortat to Kanter's Howard. In other words, a high quality center that will eventually go elsewhere to start/for more cash.

[Thunderhead]

Looks like Donovan is meeting with the media in Orlando, and providing a small amount of insight into how the Thunder are gonna play basketball ... he dances around some direct questions from Royce here, but there is some things to be gleaned

http://espn.go.com/blog/okc-thunder/post/_/id/585/qa-with-new-thunder-coach-billy-donovan

[bondom34]

Oh, I certainly see Perk as a value move. He wasn't traded til he was semi palatable in trade and even then needed a draft pick attached. There were better players available most likely sooner, and I stick up for Perk when I see it, but his trade definitely smelled of timing to maximize value.

What this discussion boils down to ..... is the same old argument about whether to amnesty Perk.

And the same old question comes up, if he were amnestied, who was going to start at center, and this is where it becomes nothing more than speculation and subjective opinion.

I think if Presti thought he could have improved that position earlier than he did, he would've made that move, and the only move realistically available, was amnesty of Perk.

Presti used the draft to replace Perk , which is his MO . Adams was Perks' replacement, and Perks role changed to being a mentor. Adams minutes slowly increased with time, until he was the starter.

And really, I don't see a lot wrong with expecting value in return for a player. Maybe GSW's move for Iggy paid off, but it could've gone south also. GSW made a lot of other changes AFTER they acquired Iggy.

It isn't the question of whether to amnesty though, as that would have been admitting failure and selling low essentially. What he ended up doing was waiting til the downside of Perk was at least small enough where he could be used as a cap ballast in trade and got something in return.

[Thunderhead]

Oh, I certainly see Perk as a value move. He wasn't traded til he was semi palatable in trade and even then needed a draft pick attached. There were better players available most likely sooner, and I stick up for Perk when I see it, but his trade definitely smelled of timing to maximize value.

What this discussion boils down to ..... is the same old argument about whether to amnesty Perk.

And the same old question comes up, if he were amnestied, who was going to start at center, and this is where it becomes nothing more than speculation and subjective opinion.

I think if Presti thought he could have improved that position earlier than he did, he would've made that move, and the only move realistically available, was amnesty of Perk.

Presti used the draft to replace Perk , which is his MO . Adams was Perks' replacement, and Perks role changed to being a mentor. Adams minutes slowly increased with time, until he was the starter.

And really, I don't see a lot wrong with expecting value in return for a player. Maybe GSW's move for Iggy paid off, but it could've gone south also. GSW made a lot of other changes AFTER they acquired Iggy.

It isn't the question of whether to amnesty though, as that would have been admitting failure and selling low essentially. What he ended up doing was waiting til the downside of Perk was at least small enough where he could be used as a cap ballast in trade and got something in return.

And this is the point where it becomes purely conjecture or subjective opinion.

I don't think there were better players available, not players that fit what Presti wanted for the Thunder.

What I recall from looking at players available in those windows when Perk could've been amnestied, is I saw nothing that made the Thunder better.

Perk had no problem hooking up with a contender after he was waived by Utah. And yes, his minutes were sparse with the Cavs, but he has " something " a lot of teams wanted. Defining what that is ..... well .... its definitely beyond advanced stats.

And I'm done with this tired old argument about whether Perk should be / should have been amnestied.

[bondom34]

What this discussion boils down to ..... is the same old argument about whether to amnesty Perk.

And the same old question comes up, if he were amnestied, who was going to start at center, and this is where it becomes nothing more than speculation and subjective opinion.

I think if Presti thought he could have improved that position earlier than he did, he would've made that move, and the only move realistically available, was amnesty of Perk.

Presti used the draft to replace Perk , which is his MO . Adams was Perks' replacement, and Perks role changed to being a mentor. Adams minutes slowly increased with time, until he was the starter.

And really, I don't see a lot wrong with expecting value in return for a player. Maybe GSW's move for Iggy paid off, but it could've gone south also. GSW made a lot of other changes AFTER they acquired Iggy.

It isn't the question of whether to amnesty though, as that would have been admitting failure and selling low essentially. What he ended up doing was waiting til the downside of Perk was at least small enough where he could be used as a cap ballast in trade and got something in return.

And this is the point where it becomes purely conjecture or subjective opinion.

I don't think there were better players available, not players that fit what Presti wanted for the Thunder.

What I recall from looking at players available in those windows when Perk could've been amnestied, is I saw nothing that made the Thunder better.

Perk had no problem hooking up with a contender after he was waived by Utah. And yes, his minutes were sparse with the Cavs, but he has " something " a lot of teams wanted. Defining what that is ..... well .... its definitely beyond advanced stats.

And I'm done with this tired old argument about whether Perk should be / should have been amnestied.

But that isn't even what I'm saying. I'm just saying that whatever side you take, Perk ultimately wasn't amnestied, and was traded. That alone was a value move.

[KD35Brah]

Looks like Donovan is meeting with the media in Orlando, and providing a small amount of insight into how the Thunder are gonna play basketball ... he dances around some direct questions from Royce here, but there is some things to be gleaned

http://espn.go.com/blog/okc-thunder/post/_/id/585/qa-with-new-thunder-coach-billy-donovan

Great read.

[Andre Roberstan]

There seems to be a general acceptance among OKC supporters that Adams, after earning the starting role at the start of last season will happily roll over in favour of Kanter starting. I am not so sure that it is going to do his confidence any favors at all. Essentially it is management signalling to him that he was not up to the starters role. Presti went hard after 3 potential starters at center initially trying to sign Pau Gasol, then Brook Lopez and finally Kanter. So you wonder what messaging Adams is getting from the coaching staff and management while all this pantomime around the Kanter resigning is going on.

I suspect Adams might be a little more competitive than many give him credit for and losing the starting role is going to sting a little especially if his minutes are more limited as they are likely to be.

Interesting thought. I would assume Kanter coming back and being made the starter means Steven will eventually be the Asik to Kanter's Noah or the Gortat to Kanter's Howard. In other words, a high quality center that will eventually go elsewhere to start/for more cash.

I think long-term if KD stays Adams is more likely to stay than Kanter, especially if he continues to grow the way he has. It's unlikely Kanter's defense ever goes from rotten to passable, but it's much more likely that Stevie develops into something like RoLo, which is an ideal fit for the team.

[kd 35]

Could y'all see Dallas throwing money bags at Kanter now that he's probably the best big left on the market? I still think he signs with OKC but I wouldn't be surprised if Dallas made a big offer after losing DJ. They could theoretically offer the same 4/$80M, right?

[bondom34]

Nah, a DIrk/Kanter pairing is just awful. Can't see them really wanting him.

[kd 35]

You're right. I guess I'm just worried about them being desperate. And to be fair, Dirk won't be around too much longer.

[Bravenewworld]

I think in today's Grantland podcast Rose might have made a Freudian slip. There is a moment where he said Kanter has resigned with OKC but as the conversation went on he seemed to highlight him being a FA.
I dunno. It just caught my ear and it would not be the first time weve heard these slips from Rose with him trying to pretend he didnt say what he did.

[Old Man Game]

Nah, a DIrk/Kanter pairing is just awful. Can't see them really wanting him.

The fact that it'd have to be a 4 year max is the only thing giving me hope. I wouldn't think they'd want to tie up that kind of money in a guy like Kanter. Otherwise I could see them trying it if they thought they could get him for something more reasonable in money or years.

[Podirk]

Royce Youngs write up on the Thunders salary/tax situation was a good read if you haven't yet.

No way Presti puts himself in the situation over the apron right? That limits the team so much even just for one year. I think the Kanter situation is somewhat similar to the Harden situation as far as contract reasons. Presti didn't want to go too far into the tax that there wasn't a way out..thus the near max offer to Harden. Now Presti doesn't want to go over the apron so he is looking for a contract that , after salary dumps, can get team salary in under the apron.

[Balkman32]

Tibor Pleiss has signed with the Utah Jazz.