Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[thamadkant]

Suns were willing to trade Stoudemire for Curry... by Kerr/Sarver

Think about that for a minute...

Curry was considered Nash-like and potentially heir to Nash back then.
Saying he didnt become a star until now is also disregarding that he had 2 bad ankle injuries in his early days....

Curry was always going to be at minimum, a borderline star... even better than Bledsoe or Knight currently.

Now with the modern NBA the way it is... Curry and players like him are having/will have their golden era.

You just can't say this stuff because the Suns wanted him in the draft. Does that mean Brandon Wright had superstar potential? After all, he went just 1 spot later in the previous year's draft than Curry, and the Suns wanted Wright also in that Amare trade.

The fact is that after numerous seasons in the NBA, including seasons in which he was healthy 90+% of the time, Steph Curry was a non all-star who got extended to a $12 million a year deal because he simply wasn't considered a superstar or potential superstar (hell, people in FA have gotten maxes based solely on potential before, and Steph still didn't), which many commentators thought was an overpay at the time. He was never an all-nba player until this past season, age 27. His game stepped up dramatically across the board. It's not as if he was always this good but never healthy--in individual groups of games he never played at this level. His per game numbers jumped too.

Also, the last part has no real justification, particularly when you look at their numbers at similar ages, and particularly when you factor in how awful Curry was defensively (one of the worst in the league until this season).

WTF are you on about Brandan Wright?
Who mentioned Brandan Wright?

Did I mention Brandan Wright?

I mentioned Curry... I mentioned Kerr loving Curry's potential and was happy to trade Stoudemire for him...
Did that NOT happen?
Was I the only one horrified when the Warriors reneged on the trade?

ALL-STAR??? As in the one Fans vote for?... Popularity contest you mean??

IN MY BOOK... Curry was a borderline STAR... as in a VERY GOOD player.
The EYE test says it..
His stats says it...
IN MY BOOK he was a "STAR", which is a word I use to describe really really really good players.

And GO SEARCH the threads where Curry being paid 12 million a year was risky due to his ankles at the time.

Its likely Curry would of gotten 14+ million or what ever the max was at the time if he didnt have ankle concerns.

And why the hell am I debating with you about why I like Curry?
What is your point??

My point... Curry is GOOD.. VERY GOOD.... Why are you making something simple complicated?

And dont mention Knight or Bledsoe, because I think these 2 are ALSO "stars", very good players... just not as good as Curry.

[Moochthemonkey]

jesus 1UPZ, why are you getting so defensive lol

The point is, Curry has surpassed expectations from when he was drafted. He didn't show he was worthy of a max contract, regardless of his ankle issues or not prior to a season ago, maybe. That is a reasonable consensus.

There is no reason to think Bledsoe, Knight cannot take off and be star players...not even good as Curry, but star players..

You never implied the opposite, but other posters in this thread did.

[Moochthemonkey]

I see Price wasn't included in the new poll. Keep hating. When he surprises y'all this season look here first.

[jredsaz]

Guys, I'm thinking the cap magic at work here might be the $5.5 mil Dragic exception, which may still leave us with some minor cap space to sign and/or absorb. The exception from Dragic is exactly $5.5 per ESPN.

Isn't it a trade exception? Since the Nets renounced his rights making him an UFA, I don't think we can do a sign and trade to get him, right? But if we can use it to sign a player, wouldn't we have to be over the cap to use it?

They rescinded the QO, not sure if that means they lose bird rights, it just makes him a UFA like any other UFA, I think. UFA's can be signed and traded and if bird rights are still there they can go over the cap to do it. The value of the contract, and the value of Dragic's trade expception matched exactly, that's what is making me think that. I could be off base, but it would seem to make some sense.

cbafaq.com:

"Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed."

Unless he actually signs a 3 year deal with only the first year guaranteed the reported contract does not meet the rules for a S&T.

However, he is eligible for a S&T with the Nets even after having his rights renounced earlier today. And the number $5.5 million is what ESPN reports as the value of the Dragic trade exemption.

Weems contract at $2.8 mil would fit into the room exemption AND the $1.5 guaranteed to Price can be worked into the cap a couple of different ways.

[JTrain]

Rough Draft:

[TASTIC]

I remember that i said Teletovic would be nice 2 weeks ago.

Good call.

Thanks.



Btw it was 1 week ago not 2 sorry.

Got you by 8 hours bro


Actually by a few months...Man I didn't realise my Mirza mancrush had surpassed my Anthony Randolph one!

[AtheJ415]

Suns were willing to trade Stoudemire for Curry... by Kerr/Sarver

Think about that for a minute...

Curry was considered Nash-like and potentially heir to Nash back then.
Saying he didnt become a star until now is also disregarding that he had 2 bad ankle injuries in his early days....

Curry was always going to be at minimum, a borderline star... even better than Bledsoe or Knight currently.

Now with the modern NBA the way it is... Curry and players like him are having/will have their golden era.

You just can't say this stuff because the Suns wanted him in the draft. Does that mean Brandon Wright had superstar potential? After all, he went just 1 spot later in the previous year's draft than Curry, and the Suns wanted Wright also in that Amare trade.

The fact is that after numerous seasons in the NBA, including seasons in which he was healthy 90+% of the time, Steph Curry was a non all-star who got extended to a $12 million a year deal because he simply wasn't considered a superstar or potential superstar (hell, people in FA have gotten maxes based solely on potential before, and Steph still didn't), which many commentators thought was an overpay at the time. He was never an all-nba player until this past season, age 27. His game stepped up dramatically across the board. It's not as if he was always this good but never healthy--in individual groups of games he never played at this level. His per game numbers jumped too.

Also, the last part has no real justification, particularly when you look at their numbers at similar ages, and particularly when you factor in how awful Curry was defensively (one of the worst in the league until this season).

WTF are you on about Brandan Wright?
Who mentioned Brandan Wright?

Did I mention Brandan Wright?

I mentioned Curry... I mentioned Kerr loving Curry's potential and was happy to trade Stoudemire for him...
Did that NOT happen?
Was I the only one horrified when the Warriors reneged on the trade?

ALL-STAR??? As in the one Fans vote for?... Popularity contest you mean??

IN MY BOOK... Curry was a borderline STAR... as in a VERY GOOD player.
The EYE test says it..
His stats says it...
IN MY BOOK he was a "STAR", which is a word I use to describe really really really good players.

And GO SEARCH the threads where Curry being paid 12 million a year was risky due to his ankles at the time.

Its likely Curry would of gotten 14+ million or what ever the max was at the time if he didnt have ankle concerns.

And why the hell am I debating with you about why I like Curry?
What is your point??

My point... Curry is GOOD.. VERY GOOD.... Why are you making something simple complicated?

And dont mention Knight or Bledsoe, because I think these 2 are ALSO "stars", very good players... just not as good as Curry.

No--I mentioned Brandan Wright, and for a very obvious reason. If your logic held, then Brandan Wright was also seen as a superstar because he was drafted high and the Suns demanded him in the Amare trade. Since Wright is obviously not a superstar, your logic is pretty much useless. If you wanted to say Curry was universally seen as a superstar from day 1 simply because Steve Kerr thought highly of him, then I'd ask why he was even there at 7 to be selected, because 6 other teams didn't see it. To buy your logic here is to believe that Ekpe Udoh had superstar potential because a team wanted him badly enough to take him in the top 3 of the draft. You're going off of one or 2 GMs, because all the other GMs that existed didn't trade up to grab him and 6 others had picks and passed on him.

I'm not questioning you liking Curry. I'm questioning what he did that qualifies him as a superstar potential since draft day, and a superstar since age 23 when his numbers and overall play was no better than Brandon Knight, and is debatable when factoring D for Bledsoe at 25. But now I get it--it's the eye test. I find it hilarious that the eye test is your justification while claiming the all-star game, in which people make really stupid decisions based on their own eye-tests, is laughed off. His numbers and impact when factoring in both sides of the ball was not noticeably greater than either player at similar ages, and his athletic ceiling is probably lower than both. So really, what I'm saying, is that your certainty that Knight and Bledsoe can't be superstars or aren't and that Curry has been since his 3rd year in the league, is backed solely by your eye test. His contract extension, which is the exact definition of market value since it is set by the actual market in question, doesn't back that claim. Wes Matthews just got a full max coming off a huge injury. Amare got a max after a huge knee surgery that scared his own team, who has more info on him than anyone, into not matching him. Saying Curry only didn't get a max because of his injuries ignores the entire history of FA, particularly since Curry's weren't career-threatening injuries.

[thamadkant]

jesus 1UPZ, why are you getting so defensive lol

The point is, Curry has surpassed expectations from when he was drafted. He didn't show he was worthy of a max contract, regardless of his ankle issues or not prior to a season ago, maybe. That is a reasonable consensus.

There is no reason to think Bledsoe, Knight cannot take off and be star players...not even good as Curry, but star players..

You never implied the opposite, but other posters in this thread did.

It seems my positive view of Curry is being questioned.

As if I said Bledsoe or Knight are terrible or something, I just said Curry is good and better even during his first 3 years.

I actually think Knight hS the potential to be Arenas-lite. So I see him on a good regard too. I never mentioned knight or Bledsoe can't be stars l... When I already think they are on their way there. I'm defending Curry... Who is perfect star for today's 3pt obsess NBA.

[AtheJ415]

I see Price wasn't included in the new poll. Keep hating. When he surprises y'all this season look here first.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see the Price signing as more of a mentor value for Bledsoe and Knight than anything else. He's the one FA move the Suns have made that I've disliked. Like I said, hope I'm wrong.

[Revived]

Wow REALLY high expectations for Gerald Green?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1398903#start_here

[Moochthemonkey]

I see Price wasn't included in the new poll. Keep hating. When he surprises y'all this season look here first.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see the Price signing as more of a mentor value for Bledsoe and Knight than anything else. He's the one FA move the Suns have made that I've disliked. Like I said, hope I'm wrong.

Personally, I see Price as being a borderline NBA All 3rd team player. But I've been called a homer before, so

[RaisingArizona]

Wow REALLY high expectations for Gerald Green?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1398903#start_here

They're going to be disappointed

[AtheJ415]

So next year when Bogdan comes over, assuming Weems works out, we trade Tucker right? Or can we straight decline his deal? I remember something about nonguaranteed money in his final season.

[SideSwipe]

Isn't it a trade exception? Since the Nets renounced his rights making him an UFA, I don't think we can do a sign and trade to get him, right? But if we can use it to sign a player, wouldn't we have to be over the cap to use it?

They rescinded the QO, not sure if that means they lose bird rights, it just makes him a UFA like any other UFA, I think. UFA's can be signed and traded and if bird rights are still there they can go over the cap to do it. The value of the contract, and the value of Dragic's trade expception matched exactly, that's what is making me think that. I could be off base, but it would seem to make some sense.

cbafaq.com:

"Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed."

Unless he actually signs a 3 year deal with only the first year guaranteed the reported contract does not meet the rules for a S&T.

However, he is eligible for a S&T with the Nets even after having his rights renounced earlier today. And the number $5.5 million is what ESPN reports as the value of the Dragic trade exemption.

Weems contract at $2.8 mil would fit into the room exemption AND the $1.5 guaranteed to Price can be worked into the cap a couple of different ways.

I'm stabbing in the dark a little here, and I had forgotten about the three year min. on S&T's if a 1+1+1 would do it, that would be interesting, but don't think you can have 2 non-guaranteed years in a contract. I think you can have a PO and/or a TO, but not 2 of one or the other, I think.

Weems works for room exception, Price is 10 yr. vet min. I think. Whatever it is it seemed very coincidental for it to be that exact number, and not mean something else...but right now all signs point to me being wrong...

[Moochthemonkey]

So next year when Bogdan comes over, assuming Weems works out, we trade Tucker right? Or can we straight decline his deal? I remember something about nonguaranteed money in his final season.

yes, only 1.5 is guaranteed if he is waived before July 2016

[RunDogGun]

Guys, I'm thinking the cap magic at work here might be the $5.5 mil Dragic exception, which may still leave us with some minor cap space to sign and/or absorb. The exception from Dragic is exactly $5.5 per ESPN.

Isn't it a trade exception? Since the Nets renounced his rights making him an UFA, I don't think we can do a sign and trade to get him, right? But if we can use it to sign a player, wouldn't we have to be over the cap to use it?

yeah I don't think it can be a sign and trade since the Nets renounced his rights.

I also think you lose your trade exceptions once you go under the cap so I think the dragic one is gone as of today. I didn't know this rule but saw some NBA cap dude like Coon explaining this to some Knicks fans on twitter.

Sidswipe said that they rescinded the QO, which is not his rights really, right?

As for your second comment, I think it's period of time we have it for, but we do have to be over the cap to use the TPE, from what I remember.

[gaspar]

We don't have the TPE anymore.

[RunDogGun]

I see Price wasn't included in the new poll. Keep hating. When he surprises y'all this season look here first.

I already claimed him two days before we signed him. I don't know how I called it, or maybe I wished on it? Who knows.

Either way, I'm glad he is back. Dude pays hard no matter how many minutes he is given. He averaged 1.6 steals last year, which ties our best Bledsoe last year.

I liked him when we first had him, that's why DRK put my name on his appreciation thread from 2011.

Canoe maybe? Two paddles?

[RunDogGun]

We don't have the TPE anymore.

So we did lose it once the 9th came? How would we get over the cap, when we weren't allowed to physically sign anyone?

Alright, off my game tonight. Explain it to me like I'm my four year old son, please.

[NTB]

Good call.

Thanks.



Btw it was 1 week ago not 2 sorry.

Got you by 8 hours bro


Actually by a few months...Man I didn't realise my Mirza mancrush had surpassed my Anthony Randolph one!

LOL nice.