Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[blacksun]

They cant talk about knight because he hasnt signed yet.

Im just glad i wont have to hear analysts talk about who can among them can tell the Morris twins apart, or mix up Brandon Knight and Brendan Wright

[Moochthemonkey]

They rescinded the QO, not sure if that means they lose bird rights, it just makes him a UFA like any other UFA, I think. UFA's can be signed and traded and if bird rights are still there they can go over the cap to do it. The value of the contract, and the value of Dragic's trade expception matched exactly, that's what is making me think that. I could be off base, but it would seem to make some sense.

cbafaq.com:

"Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed."

Unless he actually signs a 3 year deal with only the first year guaranteed the reported contract does not meet the rules for a S&T.

However, he is eligible for a S&T with the Nets even after having his rights renounced earlier today. And the number $5.5 million is what ESPN reports as the value of the Dragic trade exemption.

Weems contract at $2.8 mil would fit into the room exemption AND the $1.5 guaranteed to Price can be worked into the cap a couple of different ways.

I'm stabbing in the dark a little here, and I had forgotten about the three year min. on S&T's if a 1+1+1 would do it, that would be interesting, but don't think you can have 2 non-guaranteed years in a contract. I think you can have a PO and/or a TO, but not 2 of one or the other, I think.

Weems works for room exception, Price is 10 yr. vet min. I think. Whatever it is it seemed very coincidental for it to be that exact number, and not mean something else...but right now all signs point to me being wrong...

Yeah, only P/O works for 1 year, or else Lebron would keep signing 1+1+1+1 for 20 billion year or whatever, and keep opting out when the salary cap increases.

There is around 5.5 million of space left after the Chandler signing. That money goes to Teletovic. The mid-level exception is 3.7 million which goes to Weems with a little left over. The Suns can do all while retaining Dragic's 5.5 million trade exception, I think. If they want to use it to acquire another player.

I believe the Suns are allowed to sign Ronnie Price too, because minimum salary contracts are allowed to be signed over the cap. I could be wrong about all this though

[asudevil]

We don't have the TPE anymore.

So we did lose it once the 9th came? How would we get over the cap, when we weren't allowed to physically sign anyone?

Alright, off my game tonight. Explain it to me like I'm my four year old son, please.

TPEs count against the cap....so they basically don't matter.

Let's say the suns are at $50mil in salaries. Either they have $15mil in cap space and a $5mil TPE or they renounce the TPE and have $20mil in cap space.

TPE mean nothing unless you are already over the cap

[RunDogGun]

cbafaq.com:

"Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed."

Unless he actually signs a 3 year deal with only the first year guaranteed the reported contract does not meet the rules for a S&T.

However, he is eligible for a S&T with the Nets even after having his rights renounced earlier today. And the number $5.5 million is what ESPN reports as the value of the Dragic trade exemption.

Weems contract at $2.8 mil would fit into the room exemption AND the $1.5 guaranteed to Price can be worked into the cap a couple of different ways.

I'm stabbing in the dark a little here, and I had forgotten about the three year min. on S&T's if a 1+1+1 would do it, that would be interesting, but don't think you can have 2 non-guaranteed years in a contract. I think you can have a PO and/or a TO, but not 2 of one or the other, I think.

Weems works for room exception, Price is 10 yr. vet min. I think. Whatever it is it seemed very coincidental for it to be that exact number, and not mean something else...but right now all signs point to me being wrong...

Yeah, only P/O works for 1 year, or else Lebron would keep signing 1+1+1+1 for 20 billion year or whatever, and keep opting out when the salary cap increases.

There is around 5.5 million of space left after the Chandler signing. That money goes to Teletovic. The mid-level exception is 3.7 million which goes to Weems with a little left over. The Suns can do all while retaining Dragic's 5.5 million trade exception, I think. If they want to use it to acquire another player.

I believe the Suns are allowed to sign Ronnie Price too, because minimum salary contracts are allowed to be signed over the cap. I could be wrong about all this though

That's what I was thinking since we didn't announce any other signings today. We were waiting for Tele to be signed, then the others. Once over the cap, we should get all the exceptions, right?

[RunDogGun]

We don't have the TPE anymore.

So we did lose it once the 9th came? How would we get over the cap, when we weren't allowed to physically sign anyone?

Alright, off my game tonight. Explain it to me like I'm my four year old son, please.

TPEs count against the cap....so they basically don't matter.

Let's say the suns are at $50mil in salaries. Either they have $15mil in cap space and a $5mil TPE or they renounce the TPE and have $20mil in cap space.

TPE mean nothing unless you are already over the cap

So how we're going to get over the cap, when we couldn't sign anyone? The TPE would have to have expired today for us to even have a chance to use the TPE, right?

[WeekapaugGroove]

It's interesting when you look at the roster change from the start of last season.

Out - goran, Thomas, ennis, green, Marcus, Randolph, plumlee, Lakers pick and the wolves pick that will become 2 2nd

In- knight, price, booker, weems, leuer, mirza, chandler, 2 Miami 1sts, Cleveland 2016 1st, and the 2nd from Detroit

The second group makes it a much more balanced roster. Too early to tell if it's a much better group of tallent.

[AtheJ415]

Who makes around $10 mil a year we could acquire, assuming we have the trade exception and Tucker is who is dumped? I'm still not of the belief Markieff gets dumped for a player or picks that isn't substantial and young. You just don't trade guys age 25 with that many years left of such a bargain contract. Tucker imo is the guy we should be shopping. Similar off the court issues, 6 years older, with a contract that is soon to be up.

[gaspar]

So we did lose it once the 9th came? How would we get over the cap, when we weren't allowed to physically sign anyone?

Alright, off my game tonight. Explain it to me like I'm my four year old son, please.

TPEs count against the cap....so they basically don't matter.

Let's say the suns are at $50mil in salaries. Either they have $15mil in cap space and a $5mil TPE or they renounce the TPE and have $20mil in cap space.

TPE mean nothing unless you are already over the cap

So how we're going to get over the cap, when we couldn't sign anyone? The TPE would have to have expired today for us to even have a chance to use the TPE, right?

I'm not sure what you are asking about.

[asudevil]

cbafaq.com:

"Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed."

Unless he actually signs a 3 year deal with only the first year guaranteed the reported contract does not meet the rules for a S&T.

However, he is eligible for a S&T with the Nets even after having his rights renounced earlier today. And the number $5.5 million is what ESPN reports as the value of the Dragic trade exemption.

Weems contract at $2.8 mil would fit into the room exemption AND the $1.5 guaranteed to Price can be worked into the cap a couple of different ways.

I'm stabbing in the dark a little here, and I had forgotten about the three year min. on S&T's if a 1+1+1 would do it, that would be interesting, but don't think you can have 2 non-guaranteed years in a contract. I think you can have a PO and/or a TO, but not 2 of one or the other, I think.

Weems works for room exception, Price is 10 yr. vet min. I think. Whatever it is it seemed very coincidental for it to be that exact number, and not mean something else...but right now all signs point to me being wrong...

Yeah, only P/O works for 1 year, or else Lebron would keep signing 1+1+1+1 for 20 billion year or whatever, and keep opting out when the salary cap increases.

There is around 5.5 million of space left after the Chandler signing. That money goes to Teletovic. The mid-level exception is 3.7 million which goes to Weems with a little left over. The Suns can do all while retaining Dragic's 5.5 million trade exception, I think. If they want to use it to acquire another player.

I believe the Suns are allowed to sign Ronnie Price too, because minimum salary contracts are allowed to be signed over the cap. I could be wrong about all this though

Any exception a team has counts against the cap and has a cap hold even if they haven't used it.

I'll build off my previous example.

Let's say the suns have $50mil in committed contracts and want to make an offer for Aldridge. All of their TPEs, MLE, LLE count against what we all see as $20mil in cap space. So with those still as cap holds we would only have around $10mil to spent.

In order to be able to sign Aldridge outright we would have to renounce those exemptions to free up cap space....meaning that they would go away even though we would be out of cap space after signing him.

[RunDogGun]

Aren't TPE good for a year? What would be the point of us getting the TPE in the Goran trade if it is gone before we have a chance to get over the cap, in which to use it?

[Moochthemonkey]

We don't have the TPE anymore.

So we did lose it once the 9th came? How would we get over the cap, when we weren't allowed to physically sign anyone?

Alright, off my game tonight. Explain it to me like I'm my four year old son, please.

TPEs count against the cap....so they basically don't matter.

Let's say the suns are at $50mil in salaries. Either they have $15mil in cap space and a $5mil TPE or they renounce the TPE and have $20mil in cap space.

TPE mean nothing unless you are already over the cap

yeah, I think you're right. My post is wrong.

In that case there would still be around 1 million left in cap space after these three recent signings. But a player could be had for the taxpayer midlevel, meaning there is technically 3.8 million left to sign a player?

[RunDogGun]

I'm stabbing in the dark a little here, and I had forgotten about the three year min. on S&T's if a 1+1+1 would do it, that would be interesting, but don't think you can have 2 non-guaranteed years in a contract. I think you can have a PO and/or a TO, but not 2 of one or the other, I think.

Weems works for room exception, Price is 10 yr. vet min. I think. Whatever it is it seemed very coincidental for it to be that exact number, and not mean something else...but right now all signs point to me being wrong...

Yeah, only P/O works for 1 year, or else Lebron would keep signing 1+1+1+1 for 20 billion year or whatever, and keep opting out when the salary cap increases.

There is around 5.5 million of space left after the Chandler signing. That money goes to Teletovic. The mid-level exception is 3.7 million which goes to Weems with a little left over. The Suns can do all while retaining Dragic's 5.5 million trade exception, I think. If they want to use it to acquire another player.

I believe the Suns are allowed to sign Ronnie Price too, because minimum salary contracts are allowed to be signed over the cap. I could be wrong about all this though

Any exception a team has counts against the cap and has a cap hold even if they haven't used it.

I'll build off my previous example.

Let's say the suns have $50mil in committed contracts and want to make an offer for Aldridge. All of their TPEs, MLE, LLE count against what we all see ad $20mil in cap space. So with those still as cap holds we would only have around $10mil to spent.

In order to be able to sign Aldridge outright we would have to renounce those exemptions to free up cap space....meaning that they would go away even though we would be out of cap space after signing him.

so you are saying we renounced the rights to the TPE to be able to sign Tele?

[asudevil]

Yeah, only P/O works for 1 year, or else Lebron would keep signing 1+1+1+1 for 20 billion year or whatever, and keep opting out when the salary cap increases.

There is around 5.5 million of space left after the Chandler signing. That money goes to Teletovic. The mid-level exception is 3.7 million which goes to Weems with a little left over. The Suns can do all while retaining Dragic's 5.5 million trade exception, I think. If they want to use it to acquire another player.

I believe the Suns are allowed to sign Ronnie Price too, because minimum salary contracts are allowed to be signed over the cap. I could be wrong about all this though

Any exception a team has counts against the cap and has a cap hold even if they haven't used it.

I'll build off my previous example.

Let's say the suns have $50mil in committed contracts and want to make an offer for Aldridge. All of their TPEs, MLE, LLE count against what we all see ad $20mil in cap space. So with those still as cap holds we would only have around $10mil to spent.

In order to be able to sign Aldridge outright we would have to renounce those exemptions to free up cap space....meaning that they would go away even though we would be out of cap space after signing him.

so you are saying we renounced the rights to the TPE to be able to sign Tele?

Yes...well more than likely.

[RunDogGun]

I got it. I didn't realize they count against the cap, even though you did say it.

[JTrain]

Draft:

[Moochthemonkey]

Any exception a team has counts against the cap and has a cap hold even if they haven't used it.

I'll build off my previous example.

Let's say the suns have $50mil in committed contracts and want to make an offer for Aldridge. All of their TPEs, MLE, LLE count against what we all see ad $20mil in cap space. So with those still as cap holds we would only have around $10mil to spent.

In order to be able to sign Aldridge outright we would have to renounce those exemptions to free up cap space....meaning that they would go away even though we would be out of cap space after signing him.

so you are saying we renounced the rights to the TPE to be able to sign Tele?

Yes...well more than likely.

wait, I'm confused af now lol.

They could have still signed Teletovic with the remaining cap space (which includes the Dragic trade exception), and kept the exception per my reasoning above.

Why would they renounce the trade exception then, if it can be used as a tool to acquire another player, if needed?

Thanks for your explanations, btw.

[Moochthemonkey]

Draft:

any chance me and RunDog can get a limited edition Ronnie Price cover

[RunDogGun]

so you are saying we renounced the rights to the TPE to be able to sign Tele?

Yes...well more than likely.

wait, I'm confused af now lol.

They could have still signed Teletovic with the remaining cap space (which includes the Dragic trade exception), and kept the exception per my reasoning above.

Why would they renounce the trade exception then, if it can be used as a tool to acquire another player, if needed?

Thanks for your explanations, btw.

because he is saying they count against the cap. So we didn't have the space, it was being taken up by the TPE. If we signed Knight right after Chandler, then we would still have it, but then to get Tele, we would need the Nets, and most likely lose an asset. So renounce the TPE, gain that cap space that was a cap hold, and sign Tele without any issues.

[RunDogGun]

I think what is throwing many off is the amount of the TPE matching that of Tele's contract. I'm assuming it was money they knew they had, because they couldn't use. I get it now, thanks ASU!

[asudevil]

wait, I'm confused af now lol.

They could have still signed Teletovic with the remaining cap space (which includes the Dragic trade exception), and kept the exception per my reasoning above.

Why would they renounce the trade exception then, if it can be used as a tool to acquire another player, if needed?

Thanks for your explanations, btw.

We would renounce it for one reason...and i'll use hypothetical examples.

1.) Suns have $63mil in committed salaries before signing him to a $5mil contract. Since our Dragic TPE ($5mil) counts against the cap, in reality we only have $2mil or so to offer Tele a contract. By renouncing the TPE, we release that money, and now have up to $7mil to spend.

And lets say the suns could sign Tele without renouncing the TPE. Great. But since the TPE still counts against the cap, what would you rather have.

a.) a TPE that can used to trade for a player
b.) Cap space that can either be used to trade for a player or sign a FA.