Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland

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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#181 » by WarFan » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:44 am

Jables wrote:At least Boozer and Lee tried, they had their deficiencies but they were good teammates and didn't quit mid game. And would pass the ball, quite well sometimes. Kanter is, no question, consistently the worst passer in the NBA. And statistically the worst big man defender in the NBA. All the while showing some worrying personality issues during his Jazz exit. If you think that's worth all that money go for it.

Read the whole thread nodding along with the assessments about his atrocious D but just shocked that nobody mentioned dudes a total black hole until the last post.

The only reason for OKC to match this monster offer is if Durant absolutely demands it and I would hope he's smarter than that. It's not about OKC being cheap, this is a horrible contract that will become hard to move very quickly.

I'm not sure what the right price is for Enes (probably because I'd never want him on my team) but this is ridiculous.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#182 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:32 pm

TaylorMonkey wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Shem wrote:So a player who barely played on a championship team getting traded is breaking up a team now? Unless Curry, Thompson, Bogut, Barnes, or Iggy... basically an important rotational play is traded, especially Thompson or Curry, that's not a breakup.

I said in the previous post to that iit was different.

Bondom, that's not "breaking up a team" at all. Lee was getting DNP's during the end of the season and most of playoffs. And Lee wanted to go to a place where he would actually get minutes after being a good soldier which coincided with Lacob saving tax. If Lee wanted to stay and was getting a 20+ minute rotation, he might have been kept.

This is sort of the equivalent of saying OKC broke up their team had they had won it all and traded Collison's declining backup or Jeremy Lamb on their last year when they wanted to go. Maybe the equivalent of trading Perkins. Lee was eventually the 9th or 10th man on the depth chart. It's certainly much less of a breakup than trading Harden after reaching the finals. Lee would be a 1 and Harden would be a 10 as far as squad breakups go. Not meaning to delabor that trade, but putting things in perspective by comparison.

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#183 » by LofJ » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:43 pm

I'm leaning towards the opinion that letting Kanter go to Portland is the right move for OKC from a competitive standpoint. Bigs like him that make absolutely no effort to play defense do not help you win, in fact they do the opposite. Portland may want to tank and in that case signing Kanter to an offer sheet was smart, but regardless I think it's the wrong move for Presti to match this offer. Kanter is a losing basketball player and isn't worth anywhere near a max contract.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#184 » by tidho » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:19 pm

There is one right answer here - do what Durant wants.

Yes, when you consider the luxery tax implications a guy like Kanter isn't going to be worth it, but OKC has to take a more wholistic view. There are some guys on that team you could move to lessen the luxery tax blow too if you had to.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#185 » by jazzfan1980 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:38 pm

kd 35 wrote:
Nolan wrote:I don't hate Kanter as much as most people around here do but why is Portland interested in him? Their front court is already pretty crowded.


It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet]



Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.
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Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#186 » by StocktonShorts » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:43 pm

jazzfan1980 wrote:
kd 35 wrote:
Nolan wrote:I don't hate Kanter as much as most people around here do but why is Portland interested in him? Their front court is already pretty crowded.


It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet]



Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.


That contract they offered Wes Matthews was so toxic the Jazz couldn't match it. They sure dodged a bullet on that one!

/greenestfont
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#187 » by NBAfan3024 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:14 pm

wonder who with cap space takes on jones then.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#188 » by TaylorMonkey » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:01 pm

bondom34 wrote:
TaylorMonkey wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I said in the previous post to that iit was different.

Bondom, that's not "breaking up a team" at all. Lee was getting DNP's during the end of the season and most of playoffs. And Lee wanted to go to a place where he would actually get minutes after being a good soldier which coincided with Lacob saving tax. If Lee wanted to stay and was getting a 20+ minute rotation, he might have been kept.

This is sort of the equivalent of saying OKC broke up their team had they had won it all and traded Collison's declining backup or Jeremy Lamb on their last year when they wanted to go. Maybe the equivalent of trading Perkins. Lee was eventually the 9th or 10th man on the depth chart. It's certainly much less of a breakup than trading Harden after reaching the finals. Lee would be a 1 and Harden would be a 10 as far as squad breakups go. Not meaning to delabor that trade, but putting things in perspective by comparison.

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.


The drop off from Lee to Wallace on GSW with so few minutes left for Lee is much less than the drop off from Harden to what his return was-- the drop off from Lee's impact as a player on GSW given his minutes is like a 3 to 1, vs. Harden's value drop from a 9 to a 4 or 5, but like I said, I don't mean to belabor the point. I mean you could trade say Durant for Barbosa, or Barbosa for Steve Nash. Obviously the former trade is much worse than the latter, even though Barbosa is more of a serviceable player than Nash. So you can't really evaluate a trade just by what's brought back. You have to consider what contribution and value the outgoing asset had with the available playing time on his original team, as well as his overall trade value (Lee was considered a negative asset with his contract and decreased performance).

I didn't like the trade for basketball reasons this immediate season-- the roster was weaker, however marginally so, and Wallace is not a playable asset-- but apparently Wallace has some value as a contract that can be stretch waived. If there' is a player out there whose team is looking to drop in a cash dump, Wallace can be a target. Anyway, it remains that it's pretty hard to call the Lee trade breaking up a championship team, or that trade "worse" than other trades that are often the target of criticism.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#189 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:11 pm

TaylorMonkey wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
TaylorMonkey wrote:Bondom, that's not "breaking up a team" at all. Lee was getting DNP's during the end of the season and most of playoffs. And Lee wanted to go to a place where he would actually get minutes after being a good soldier which coincided with Lacob saving tax. If Lee wanted to stay and was getting a 20+ minute rotation, he might have been kept.

This is sort of the equivalent of saying OKC broke up their team had they had won it all and traded Collison's declining backup or Jeremy Lamb on their last year when they wanted to go. Maybe the equivalent of trading Perkins. Lee was eventually the 9th or 10th man on the depth chart. It's certainly much less of a breakup than trading Harden after reaching the finals. Lee would be a 1 and Harden would be a 10 as far as squad breakups go. Not meaning to delabor that trade, but putting things in perspective by comparison.

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.


The drop off from Lee to Wallace on GSW with so few minutes left for Lee is much less than the drop off from Harden to what his return was-- the drop off from Lee's impact as a player on GSW given his minutes is like a 3 to 1, vs. Harden's value drop from a 9 to a 4 or 5, but like I said, I don't mean to belabor the point. I mean you could trade say Durant for Barbosa, or Barbosa for Steve Nash. Obviously the former trade is much worse than the latter, even though Barbosa is more of a serviceable player than Nash. So you can't really evaluate a trade just by what's brought back. You have to consider what contribution and value the outgoing asset had with the available playing time on his original team, as well as his overall trade value (Lee was considered a negative asset with his contract and decreased performance).

I didn't like the trade for basketball reasons this immediate season-- the roster was weaker, however marginally so, and Wallace is not a playable asset-- but apparently Wallace has some value as a contract that can be stretch waived. If there' is a player out there whose team is looking to drop in a cash dump, Wallace can be a target. Anyway, it remains that it's pretty hard to call the Lee trade breaking up a championship team, or that trade "worse" than other trades that are often the target of criticism.

I'm not saying the Lee deal was awful, but it to me clearly isn't good on court value. That was the point, it was a decision made simply to save money.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#190 » by NothingButLuck » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:06 pm

bondom34 wrote:
improper wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Well that's just wrong.

OKC was the second highest payroll last year using hoopshype or bbi. And the team that literally just won the title broke up their team because of the tax. I know Lee wasn't as important, but they still did and took back Wallace.


David Lee played eight minutes per game in the playoffs and was making fifteen million. Are you really saying that Golden State broke up their team by jettisoning a guy who didn't even make it into several games in their playoff run? Please. Lee wasn't important at all, and getting rid of your ninth best guy doesn't count as breaking up a team. The fact that you even compared Golden State getting rid of Lee to OKC trading Harden is both laughable and horribly, horribly naive.

Do you know who played more minutes per game than David Lee in the playoffs? James Jones. As a Cavs fan, will I care at all if James Jones is back next year? No, and I certainly wouldn't say that Gilbert was breaking up a potential title team. He wasn't a key component of the team. That's David Lee, except David Lee is making fourteen million more per year than James Jones.

Except Lee was actually good, Jones wasn't. And Wallace is 10 million of nothing.

Except Lee isn't good. He might actually give Kanter a run for the money for being one of the worst defensive bigs in the league if it wasn't for the Warrior defensive system. And his offense is getting worse as his long 2s jumpshots become almost non-existent. That's probably the best they could have gotten back, a Gerald Wallace. :lol:
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#191 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:10 pm

NothingButLuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
improper wrote:
David Lee played eight minutes per game in the playoffs and was making fifteen million. Are you really saying that Golden State broke up their team by jettisoning a guy who didn't even make it into several games in their playoff run? Please. Lee wasn't important at all, and getting rid of your ninth best guy doesn't count as breaking up a team. The fact that you even compared Golden State getting rid of Lee to OKC trading Harden is both laughable and horribly, horribly naive.

Do you know who played more minutes per game than David Lee in the playoffs? James Jones. As a Cavs fan, will I care at all if James Jones is back next year? No, and I certainly wouldn't say that Gilbert was breaking up a potential title team. He wasn't a key component of the team. That's David Lee, except David Lee is making fourteen million more per year than James Jones.

Except Lee was actually good, Jones wasn't. And Wallace is 10 million of nothing.

Except Lee isn't good. He might actually give Kanter a run for the money for being one of the worst defensive bigs in the league if it wasn't for the Warrior defensive system. And his offense is getting worse as his long 2s jumpshots become almost non-existent. That's probably the best they could have gotten back, a Gerald Wallace. :lol:

Lee's on heckuva lot better than Wallace.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#192 » by NothingButLuck » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:15 pm

bondom34 wrote:
NothingButLuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Except Lee was actually good, Jones wasn't. And Wallace is 10 million of nothing.

Except Lee isn't good. He might actually give Kanter a run for the money for being one of the worst defensive bigs in the league if it wasn't for the Warrior defensive system. And his offense is getting worse as his long 2s jumpshots become almost non-existent. That's probably the best they could have gotten back, a Gerald Wallace. :lol:

Lee's on heckuva lot better than Wallace.

Warriors did Lee a favor trading him to a team that will give him minutes because this season will be his contract year. The guy is a trooper for not sulking last season despite the fact he had been a starter for very long and only lost his starting job because he was injured to start the season. But he's far from being an integral part of the Warriors.

Better than one of the worst players in the league doesn't really say much. David Lee's a below average player.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#193 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:18 pm

NothingButLuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
NothingButLuck wrote:Except Lee isn't good. He might actually give Kanter a run for the money for being one of the worst defensive bigs in the league if it wasn't for the Warrior defensive system. And his offense is getting worse as his long 2s jumpshots become almost non-existent. That's probably the best they could have gotten back, a Gerald Wallace. :lol:

Lee's on heckuva lot better than Wallace.

Warriors did Lee a favor trading him to a team that will give him minutes because this season will be his contract year. The guy is a trooper for not sulking last season despite the fact he had been a starter for very long and only lost his starting job because he was injured to start the season. But he's far from being an integral part of the Warriors.

Better than one of the worst players in the league doesn't really say much. David Lee's a below average player.

He played well for them in his time there. That's more than I can say about Gerald Wallace in his last 3 years.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#194 » by aIvin adams » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:27 pm

bondom34 wrote:
NothingButLuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Lee's on heckuva lot better than Wallace.

Warriors did Lee a favor trading him to a team that will give him minutes because this season will be his contract year. The guy is a trooper for not sulking last season despite the fact he had been a starter for very long and only lost his starting job because he was injured to start the season. But he's far from being an integral part of the Warriors.

Better than one of the worst players in the league doesn't really say much. David Lee's a below average player.

He played well for them in his time there. That's more than I can say about Gerald Wallace in his last 3 years.


i think the most relevant part of NBL's post is that the Dubs were doing him a favor. they were being standup dudes bc Lee was a professional for them last year. that's the big diff imo
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#195 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:29 pm

aIvin adams wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
NothingButLuck wrote:Warriors did Lee a favor trading him to a team that will give him minutes because this season will be his contract year. The guy is a trooper for not sulking last season despite the fact he had been a starter for very long and only lost his starting job because he was injured to start the season. But he's far from being an integral part of the Warriors.

Better than one of the worst players in the league doesn't really say much. David Lee's a below average player.

He played well for them in his time there. That's more than I can say about Gerald Wallace in his last 3 years.


i think the most relevant part of NBL's post is that the Dubs were doing him a favor. they were being standup dudes bc Lee was a professional for them last year. that's the big diff imo

And tbh I think OKC ddi the same w/ Harden. He wanted his own team, they let him have it.
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Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#196 » by Melvinlocker » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:34 pm

I'm not a fan of this contract. Enes is not a good defensive center and on top of it all, he shows some very concerning character flaws.


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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#197 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:36 pm

:lol:

I'm not sure which pair of fanbases want a guy less, Portland/OKC with Kanter at 17 mil or Dallas/Brooklyn with D Will at any price.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#198 » by Pattycakes » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:45 pm

As a Blazer fan, I hope to god that this isn't our "big catch" of the off season. I would throw that one back in the water very quickly.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#199 » by Soca » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:08 pm

bondom34 wrote:
TaylorMonkey wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I said in the previous post to that iit was different.

Bondom, that's not "breaking up a team" at all. Lee was getting DNP's during the end of the season and most of playoffs. And Lee wanted to go to a place where he would actually get minutes after being a good soldier which coincided with Lacob saving tax. If Lee wanted to stay and was getting a 20+ minute rotation, he might have been kept.

This is sort of the equivalent of saying OKC broke up their team had they had won it all and traded Collison's declining backup or Jeremy Lamb on their last year when they wanted to go. Maybe the equivalent of trading Perkins. Lee was eventually the 9th or 10th man on the depth chart. It's certainly much less of a breakup than trading Harden after reaching the finals. Lee would be a 1 and Harden would be a 10 as far as squad breakups go. Not meaning to delabor that trade, but putting things in perspective by comparison.

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.


That's being generous considering you have very little to show for that trade.
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Re: Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland 

Post#200 » by bondom34 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:09 pm

Soca wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
TaylorMonkey wrote:Bondom, that's not "breaking up a team" at all. Lee was getting DNP's during the end of the season and most of playoffs. And Lee wanted to go to a place where he would actually get minutes after being a good soldier which coincided with Lacob saving tax. If Lee wanted to stay and was getting a 20+ minute rotation, he might have been kept.

This is sort of the equivalent of saying OKC broke up their team had they had won it all and traded Collison's declining backup or Jeremy Lamb on their last year when they wanted to go. Maybe the equivalent of trading Perkins. Lee was eventually the 9th or 10th man on the depth chart. It's certainly much less of a breakup than trading Harden after reaching the finals. Lee would be a 1 and Harden would be a 10 as far as squad breakups go. Not meaning to delabor that trade, but putting things in perspective by comparison.

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.


That's being generous considering you have very little to show for that trade.

The jump from Perkins to Adams alone gives it a 5 to me. Add on McGary and a year of K Mart as a mild bonus.
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