OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

[Podirk]

????????

Are you confused?
Has Bosh ever been anything more than an energy guy on defense?
Because last i checked they had to bring in guys like Battier to work around that guys lack of defense.. and of course, when that ship sailed, Bosh failed miserably defensively.... ask the Spurs how that worked for them.

This is some fine revisionist history to try to make your point, which you're failing at. At this point it sort of appears you are just throwing stuff at a wall and trying to see what sticks. And it isn't a lot.

You're throwing out a lot of guys who aren't good defenders, but none of them are nearly as bad (Statistically) as Enes Kanter. What you're failing to see is that Kanters value stems purely from his Offense. You got to see that offense when he was given his way on offense, because KD was out. You'll see this year that those numbers won't translate as well when he is 3rd/4th fiddle. For a 3rd/4th fiddle, you typically want them to be able to play defense.

I'll go ahead and say it now. He'll look lack luster when he isn't getting so many shots, and mid season fans will start to notice the team does much better with Adams out there. Next offseason comes around and you're wishing you'd had money for a role player to entice Durant. A role player whose role actually fits with what you need.

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

[Bravenewworld]

So you just missed last season then.

Again... what the flying **** does last season have to do with next season?
If we were healthy, with a set roster and the same coach... okay.
That was not the case was it? It was not even close to the case was it? I mean..... if "the case" was earth, then last year, would be planet X (300 million light years for the non-astronomy ppl).

So again, if last season means nothing, and his career in Utah means nothing, this is 70 million dollars with zero proof. That's not good.

Okay. Well go argue with presti and everyone else who seems to understand his value.
You've once again focused WAY too much on crap that has no relevance or is questionable at best. Don't argue with me on the subject, argue with everyone who says this takes OKC from being a bad dream, to a nightmare for teams int he West.

[Waynearchetype]

No he's not. But if we are going by qualified, he is above anyone on these boards.
But its also not like we cant see these things for ourselves. Bosh had a horrible def. eff. for most of his career.

Your proof is all hearsay and zero evidence.

Kanter would be good as a 6th man, but keep in mind he forced his way out of Utah because of a perceived slight due to minutes. The team atmosphere supported by vets might keep that from happening again, but there are a lot of IFs for a 17 million dollar contract with a trade kicker.

[bondom34]

Again... what the flying **** does last season have to do with next season?
If we were healthy, with a set roster and the same coach... okay.
That was not the case was it? It was not even close to the case was it? I mean..... if "the case" was earth, then last year, would be planet X (300 million light years for the non-astronomy ppl).

So again, if last season means nothing, and his career in Utah means nothing, this is 70 million dollars with zero proof. That's not good.

Okay. Well go argue with presti and everyone else who seems to understand his value.
You've once again focused WAY too much on crap that has no relevance or is questionable at best. Don't argue with me on the subject, argue with everyone who says this takes OKC from being a bad dream, to a nightmare for teams int he West.

So we're only paying attention to the good data, ignoring the bad.

[Bravenewworld]

No he's not. But if we are going by qualified, he is above anyone on these boards.
But its also not like we cant see these things for ourselves. Bosh had a horrible def. eff. for most of his career.

Your proof is all hearsay and zero evidence.

Kanter would be good as a 6th man, but keep in mind he forced his way out of Utah because of a perceived slight due to minutes. The team atmosphere supported by vets might keep that from happening again, but there are a lot of IFs for a 17 million dollar contract with a trade kicker.

Eh. It is what it is. IMO i think Kanter understood the Jazz are a go no where team that were not helping his career. Minutes, whatever.
I dont think there are a lot of "ifs" there. You and many others, seem to gloss over what winning does for players attitude and comfort level.

[Podirk]

So you just missed last season then.

Again... what the flying **** does last season have to do with next season?
If we were healthy, with a set roster and the same coach... okay.
That was not the case was it? It was not even close to the case was it? I mean..... if "the case" was earth, then last year, would be planet X (300 million light years for the non-astronomy ppl).

So again, if last season means nothing, and his career in Utah means nothing, this is 70 million dollars with zero proof. That's not good.

That's not at all what's being said....
Screw the numbers and go to DraftExpress style grading.

Strengths
Rebounds
strong in the paint
can shoot

Weaknesses
p and r defense *pathetic
defense *poor

Showed possibility of being a passer/ ok court vision.

No matter how many minutes/who he is out there with Kanter should at least be able to get points off of rebound put backs / dump offs from a drive. He may be able to hit some pick and pop depending on who all is in.
He will need to be paired with a good defender.

[Bravenewworld]

So again, if last season means nothing, and his career in Utah means nothing, this is 70 million dollars with zero proof. That's not good.

Okay. Well go argue with presti and everyone else who seems to understand his value.
You've once again focused WAY too much on crap that has no relevance or is questionable at best. Don't argue with me on the subject, argue with everyone who says this takes OKC from being a bad dream, to a nightmare for teams int he West.

So we're only paying attention to the good data, ignoring the bad.

No, we are putting it all in its proper context. Which you dont want to seem to do. You want to highlight things like the Jazz post Kanter, but that has nothing at all to do with us. It does not say anything about us or Kanter for us. It says the Jazz and Kanter had issues. I just.... you are acting like youve never seen a player in a bad situation go to a good situation. Or that what a player does on team A is what he will do on team B.... he's a bad defender, okay. But you're taking these things way too far with irrelevant nonsense.

go ask presti. Because im very tired of this nonsense circiual b wher you pretend to bring up issues. Youre a mod on realgm, realgm is considered a news site, go get a press pass and ask presti.

[Zagor]

Are you confused?
Has Bosh ever been anything more than an energy guy on defense?
Because last i checked they had to bring in guys like Battier to work around that guys lack of defense.. and of course, when that ship sailed, Bosh failed miserably defensively.... ask the Spurs how that worked for them.

Tell me that you are joking.
Bosh was elite in p n' r coverage, which is most important thing in modern NBA defense.
http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2013/12/18/court-vision-chris-bosh-miami-heat-defense

Kanter is historically bad defender. It is a fact. We can't deny that.
Our only hope is that he will learn from Nick and Moe Cheeks just to be close to average defender.
He is not slow like Pau Gasol, he has speed/tools to be at least average defender.

So body is not a problem but mind....like with Amare.
I hope Cheeks or Monty press him hard and ask to know everything about defensive schemes. They need to practice with him "speed" of mind, he must think faster.

If opponents can't kill us with non stop targeting of Kanter, then his contract will be fantastic thing.

[Waynearchetype]

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars. And the trade would function as if his contract was $25.6 million as well. Contracts with trade kickers aren't usually traded until near the end of their contract for this reason, they're kind of difficult.

[Bravenewworld]

Tell me that you are joking.
Bosh was elite in p n' r coverage, which is most important thing in modern NBA defense.
http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2013/12/18/court-vision-chris-bosh-miami-heat-defense

And there were a few years where Nash took more charges then anyone else. So... what? That means because he is not bad at every single aspect of defense, hes not a bad defender?

[Andre Roberstan]

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars.

Since he's a RFA who signed an offer sheet, you also have to get his permission if you trade him within a year of the signing.

[bondom34]

Okay. Well go argue with presti and everyone else who seems to understand his value.
You've once again focused WAY too much on crap that has no relevance or is questionable at best. Don't argue with me on the subject, argue with everyone who says this takes OKC from being a bad dream, to a nightmare for teams int he West.

So we're only paying attention to the good data, ignoring the bad.

No, we are putting it all in its proper context. Which you dont want to seem to do. You want to highlight things like the Jazz post Kanter, but that has nothing at all to do with us. It does not say anything about us or Kanter for us. It says the Jazz and Kanter had issues. I just.... you are acting like youve never seen a player in a bad situation go to a good situation. Or that what a player does on team A is what he will do on team B.... he's a bad defender, okay. But you're taking these things way too far with irrelevant nonsense.

go ask presti. Because im very tired of this nonsense circiual b wher you pretend to bring up issues. Youre a mod on realgm, realgm is considered a news site, go get a press pass and ask presti.

I'm not sure you're last statement even makes sense...well no it just doesn't. And I don't know what context it is, we've been critical of his D and told "its 20 games without the roster in tact" and then you praised his offense when it was the same 20 games. His defense gets a pass in Utah, but his offense is still praised. He had literally one GM throw money at him, who happens to be GM of a team who just lost a star and looks to be tanking the season and finding a way to use up a ton of unplanned cap space. There was nothing irrelevant. And RealGM isn't really a "media" site. I don't know if there are more than 5 people employed by it that are media. And I'm not employed by it at all.

[bondom34]

Again... what the flying **** does last season have to do with next season?
If we were healthy, with a set roster and the same coach... okay.
That was not the case was it? It was not even close to the case was it? I mean..... if "the case" was earth, then last year, would be planet X (300 million light years for the non-astronomy ppl).

So again, if last season means nothing, and his career in Utah means nothing, this is 70 million dollars with zero proof. That's not good.

That's not at all what's being said....
Screw the numbers and go to DraftExpress style grading.

Strengths
Rebounds
strong in the paint
can shoot

Weaknesses
p and r defense *pathetic
defense *poor

Showed possibility of being a passer/ ok court vision.

No matter how many minutes/who he is out there with Kanter should at least be able to get points off of rebound put backs / dump offs from a drive. He may be able to hit some pick and pop depending on who all is in.
He will need to be paired with a good defender.

And go to what DX said about his defense 4 years ago. It says exactly what he still is.

[Podirk]

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars. And the trade would function as if his contract was $25.6 million as well. Contracts with trade kickers aren't usually traded until near the end of their contract for this reason, they're kind of difficult.

Fair point, is that including the option year? I don't believe the option year is included on remaining amount.

[Waynearchetype]

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars. And the trade would function as if his contract was $25.6 million as well. Contracts with trade kickers aren't usually traded until near the end of their contract for this reason, they're kind of difficult.

Fair point, is that including the option year? I don't believe the option year is included on remaining amount.

My figure does include it, although you're right I'm not sure it should. Does anyone know?

Still, that would be a 5~ million addition to his salary for that year. I would say it is unlikely he would be traded until after the end of his second year of that contract in any scenario.

[Waynearchetype]

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars. And the trade would function as if his contract was $25.6 million as well. Contracts with trade kickers aren't usually traded until near the end of their contract for this reason, they're kind of difficult.

Fair point, is that including the option year? I don't believe the option year is included on remaining amount.

My figure does include it, although you're right I'm not sure it should. Does anyone know?

Still, that would be a 5~ million addition to his salary for that year. I would say it is unlikely he would be traded until after the end of his second year of that contract in any scenario.

[Podirk]

And you know how well Thunder have done at that so far... ...not well at all.
Obviously Thunder will have a lot more money, but everyone will have a lot more money.

Instead of fighting FA craziness (when Thunder will have the most important one to resign), Presti should sign this current max offer of 70 mill (truthfully more like 54 mill cause Kanter will opt out) and see what he can trade for next year...and if it is a free agent work a sign and trade. Opens up more possibilities.

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars. And the trade would function as if his contract was $25.6 million as well. Contracts with trade kickers aren't usually traded until near the end of their contract for this reason, they're kind of difficult.

Fair point, is that including the option year? I don't believe the option year is included on remaining amount.

without that PO year the total is around 35 remaining so a 5.25 15% bonus.

22.75...I bet that could bring in 1 really good player or two good players.

[Bravenewworld]

I'm not sure you're last statement even makes sense...well no it just doesn't. And I don't know what context it is, we've been critical of his D and told "its 20 games without the roster in tact" and then you praised his offense when it was the same 20 games. His defense gets a pass in Utah, but his offense is still praised. He had literally one GM throw money at him, who happens to be GM of a team who just lost a star and looks to be tanking the season and finding a way to use up a ton of unplanned cap space. There was nothing irrelevant. And RealGM isn't really a "media" site. I don't know if there are more than 5 people employed by it that are media. And I'm not employed by it at all.

Yah.... i didnt feel it was worth it to edit it.

Why would Kanter's defense get a pass in Utah? Who has once excused his bad defense or suggested otherwise? What the **** is so hard to understand about what the Jazz did, is not reflective on us, our system, how we will use Kanter, how he fits our team? .... oh my god..... this is not even ultra basic stuff, this is before ultra basic... i don't, i dont know.
Go ask presti man. Go ask Grantland. Go ask ESPN. Go ask SI. Go ask anyone. You seem to want to bring up nonsense that no one is suggesting, not understanding how the Jazz's system is not reflective our system (that one really confuses me) blah blah blah.
And no, Kanter signed ONE sheet. We know the Blazers were not the only team to discuss contracts with him and its very unlikely the blazers were the only team to offer him a contract, but he could only sign one sheet. Again, im not sure how you are confused by this stuff... its as basic as it gets. You sign one intent sheet, you cant sign multiple, it does not mean one team offered you a contract, it does not even mean you went with the highest bidder.

[Podirk]

If you attempt to trade him next year his 17.5 salary gets a bonus of 8.1 (%15 of the remaining amount on his contract). You'd have to find a team willing to take on $25.6 million dollars. And the trade would function as if his contract was $25.6 million as well. Contracts with trade kickers aren't usually traded until near the end of their contract for this reason, they're kind of difficult.

Fair point, is that including the option year? I don't believe the option year is included on remaining amount.

My figure does include it, although you're right I'm not sure it should. Does anyone know?

Still, that would be a 5~ million addition to his salary for that year. I would say it is unlikely he would be traded until after the end of his second year of that contract in any scenario.

I think that's the best case he get's traded in his last guaranteed year. Though year two is plausible.

"Option years are not counted when determining the remaining value of the contract" from cbafaq...

[Waynearchetype]

without that PO year the total is around 35 remaining so a 5.25 15% bonus.

22.75...I bet that could bring in 1 really good player or two good players.

Again, a reminder that David Lee put up similar numbers on offense and defense. He was traded for Gerald Wallace.