OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

[Waynearchetype]

Yah.... i didnt feel it was worth it to edit it.

Why would Kanter's defense get a pass in Utah? Who has once excused his bad defense or suggested otherwise? What the **** is so hard to understand about what the Jazz did, is not reflective on us, our system, how we will use Kanter, how he fits our team? .... oh my god..... this is not even ultra basic stuff, this is before ultra basic... i don't, i dont know.
Go ask presti man. Go ask Grantland. Go ask ESPN. Go ask SI. Go ask anyone. You seem to want to bring up nonsense that no one is suggesting, not understanding how the Jazz's system is not reflective our system (that one really confuses me) blah blah blah.
And no, Kanter signed ONE sheet. We know the Blazers were not the only team to discuss contracts with him and its very unlikely the blazers were the only team to offer him a contract, but he could only sign one sheet. Again, im not sure how you are confused by this stuff... its as basic as it gets. You sign one intent sheet, you cant sign multiple, it does not mean one team offered you a contract, it does not even mean you went with the highest bidder.

It is amazing that people can show you the error in your train of logic. People can show you numbers that go against your claim. And then on top of that, you can still insinuate that they are stupid and don't grasp "Ultra Ultra Before Ultra Basic Concepts"

[Podirk]

without that PO year the total is around 35 remaining so a 5.25 15% bonus.

22.75...I bet that could bring in 1 really good player or two good players.

Again, a reminder that David Lee put up similar numbers on offense and defense. He was traded for Gerald Wallace.

This is true and it is a completely different league cap/tax wise.

They weren't wanting to trade Lee for a good player...they were looking for a team that could absorb some of the salary to lessen the Ws tax hit. They traded Lees 15 mill for Wallaces 10 and can take the tax hit this year with the team in tact and tax rising significantly.

[bondom34]

I'm not sure you're last statement even makes sense...well no it just doesn't. And I don't know what context it is, we've been critical of his D and told "its 20 games without the roster in tact" and then you praised his offense when it was the same 20 games. His defense gets a pass in Utah, but his offense is still praised. He had literally one GM throw money at him, who happens to be GM of a team who just lost a star and looks to be tanking the season and finding a way to use up a ton of unplanned cap space. There was nothing irrelevant. And RealGM isn't really a "media" site. I don't know if there are more than 5 people employed by it that are media. And I'm not employed by it at all.

Yah.... i didnt feel it was worth it to edit it.

Why would Kanter's defense get a pass in Utah? Who has once excused his bad defense or suggested otherwise? What the **** is so hard to understand about what the Jazz did, is not reflective on us, our system, how we will use Kanter, how he fits our team? .... oh my god..... this is not even ultra basic stuff, this is before ultra basic... i don't, i dont know.
Go ask presti man. Go ask Grantland. Go ask ESPN. Go ask SI. Go ask anyone. You seem to want to bring up nonsense that no one is suggesting, not understanding how the Jazz's system is not reflective our system (that one really confuses me) blah blah blah.
And no, Kanter signed ONE sheet. We know the Blazers were not the only team to discuss contracts with him and its very unlikely the blazers were the only team to offer him a contract, but he could only sign one sheet. Again, im not sure how you are confused by this stuff... its as basic as it gets. You sign one intent sheet, you cant sign multiple, it does not mean one team offered you a contract, it does not even mean you went with the highest bidder.

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

[Bravenewworld]

It is amazing that people can show you the error in your train of logic. People can show you numbers that go against your claim. And then on top of that, you can still insinuate that they are stupid and don't grasp "Ultra Ultra Before Ultra Basic Concepts"

Really? What numbers have been posted that go against my claim?

Do i need to remind you of what my claim is?
Its that his poor defense is not a major issue for OKC. Please tell me, what numbers have been shown to suggest anything differently?
What? the 20 game stretch? Yah... if you want to put value in a 20 game stretch where a quarter of the roster was injured including 2 highly important starters, had 7 new players from the start of the season and a different coach... and think that will some how reflect on us next season, healthy, with having those new players fora season and a new coach... okay. Go ahead... you can go right ahead and think that. Personally, ive been doing this basketball thing far too long to think that stretch is reflective of anything. Could it be? Sure. It could be 100% spot on. But anyone who pays attention wouldnt bank on it. BTW, that list includes the people who are paid to figure these things out... soooooo.... ya.

As for the last little part. I don't know what to say or where to go with it, when someone does not understand what one team does, is not reflective of someone else. I dont even understand how someone can begin to say this in a serious manner.

[Podirk]

I'm not sure you're last statement even makes sense...well no it just doesn't. And I don't know what context it is, we've been critical of his D and told "its 20 games without the roster in tact" and then you praised his offense when it was the same 20 games. His defense gets a pass in Utah, but his offense is still praised. He had literally one GM throw money at him, who happens to be GM of a team who just lost a star and looks to be tanking the season and finding a way to use up a ton of unplanned cap space. There was nothing irrelevant. And RealGM isn't really a "media" site. I don't know if there are more than 5 people employed by it that are media. And I'm not employed by it at all.

Yah.... i didnt feel it was worth it to edit it.

Why would Kanter's defense get a pass in Utah? Who has once excused his bad defense or suggested otherwise? What the **** is so hard to understand about what the Jazz did, is not reflective on us, our system, how we will use Kanter, how he fits our team? .... oh my god..... this is not even ultra basic stuff, this is before ultra basic... i don't, i dont know.
Go ask presti man. Go ask Grantland. Go ask ESPN. Go ask SI. Go ask anyone. You seem to want to bring up nonsense that no one is suggesting, not understanding how the Jazz's system is not reflective our system (that one really confuses me) blah blah blah.
And no, Kanter signed ONE sheet. We know the Blazers were not the only team to discuss contracts with him and its very unlikely the blazers were the only team to offer him a contract, but he could only sign one sheet. Again, im not sure how you are confused by this stuff... its as basic as it gets. You sign one intent sheet, you cant sign multiple, it does not mean one team offered you a contract, it does not even mean you went with the highest bidder.

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

Those teams all seriosuly need help...and they know Thunder would match...so why tie up cap space for 3 days. PDX is just trying to catch their breath from this horrible FA period for them.

[Bravenewworld]

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

And again.
WTF does that have to do with us?
Are we the Jazz?
Are our rosters the same?
Do we run the same system?
Are Quinn and Donovan actually the same person?
Are our teams even remotely similar?

[bondom34]

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

And again.
WTF does that have to do with us?
Are we the Jazz?
Are our rosters the same?
Do we run the same system?
Are Quinn and Donovan actually the same person?
Are our teams even remotely similar?

Is Kanter the same? Yes.

[bondom34]

Yah.... i didnt feel it was worth it to edit it.

Why would Kanter's defense get a pass in Utah? Who has once excused his bad defense or suggested otherwise? What the **** is so hard to understand about what the Jazz did, is not reflective on us, our system, how we will use Kanter, how he fits our team? .... oh my god..... this is not even ultra basic stuff, this is before ultra basic... i don't, i dont know.
Go ask presti man. Go ask Grantland. Go ask ESPN. Go ask SI. Go ask anyone. You seem to want to bring up nonsense that no one is suggesting, not understanding how the Jazz's system is not reflective our system (that one really confuses me) blah blah blah.
And no, Kanter signed ONE sheet. We know the Blazers were not the only team to discuss contracts with him and its very unlikely the blazers were the only team to offer him a contract, but he could only sign one sheet. Again, im not sure how you are confused by this stuff... its as basic as it gets. You sign one intent sheet, you cant sign multiple, it does not mean one team offered you a contract, it does not even mean you went with the highest bidder.

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

Those teams all seriosuly need help...and they know Thunder would match...so why tie up cap space for 3 days. PDX is just trying to catch their breath from this horrible FA period for them.

They all needed bigs, and nobody offered.

[Waynearchetype]

Those teams all seriosuly need help...and they know Thunder would match...so why tie up cap space for 3 days. PDX is just trying to catch their breath from this horrible FA period for them.

Catch their breath? Portland is roughly $20 Million away from the salary floor with no one to spend money on. I don't see this as anything but a "We spend it now or we spend it later and get nothing out of it" move that is gambling on the small chance that Kanter can improve his defense. They aren't competing and they know that, which means a gamble is worthwhile for them.

They've also trolled a few teams in their division by doing similar things in the past. Mostly the Jazz. The Jazz connection is probably why they are doing this lol.

[Bravenewworld]

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

And again.
WTF does that have to do with us?
Are we the Jazz?
Are our rosters the same?
Do we run the same system?
Are Quinn and Donovan actually the same person?
Are our teams even remotely similar?

Is Kanter the same? Yes.

And again, what does that have to do with us as a team?
What overall are you drawing from that?

[bondom34]

And again.
WTF does that have to do with us?
Are we the Jazz?
Are our rosters the same?
Do we run the same system?
Are Quinn and Donovan actually the same person?
Are our teams even remotely similar?

Is Kanter the same? Yes.

And again, what does that have to do with us as a team?
What overall are you drawing from that?

That Kanter's deficiencies remain the same. He's got great strength, but at least the same deficiency, and paying that this much money doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Waynearchetype]

And again, what does that have to do with us as a team?
What overall are you drawing from that?

Have you ever had a single link in a chain break? All the others might be sturdy as hell, but if one goes...

[Podirk]

Pretty much everyone has said the same thing. The Jazz defense was fantastic. After Kanter. And nobody else offered him. The Knicks didn't, the Mavs didn't, the Bucks didn't, nobody.

Those teams all seriosuly need help...and they know Thunder would match...so why tie up cap space for 3 days. PDX is just trying to catch their breath from this horrible FA period for them.

They all needed bigs, and nobody offered.

If the team was serious about a big they would have asked for a sign and trade..cause you don't lock up cap space for 3 days for possibly NO reason.

Mavs had there Center until yesterday, then they traded for Zaza.
Bucks got Monroe.
Knicks got Robin Lopez

with exception of Mavs (who wold have been true if not for DJ) the teams signed UFA...cause there is no matching crap..just sign and move on.

[Bravenewworld]

That Kanter's deficiencies remain the same. He's got great strength, but at least the same deficiency, and paying that this much money doesn't make a ton of sense.

...... yet again, this is what everyone in the NBA expected of this situation. Clearly there is a level of sense it makes if you don't try to add nonsense... if you dont try to say things like "jazz had best defense for 20 games after Kanter" and suggesting that we can draw anything from that and apply it to our team.

Again, i hope youre paying attention to what happens when you focus on nit picked advanced stats too much. Because right now you've used this stuff to justify arguing against the value every single professional and anyone in the know seems to understand.

[Podirk]

Those teams all seriosuly need help...and they know Thunder would match...so why tie up cap space for 3 days. PDX is just trying to catch their breath from this horrible FA period for them.

Catch their breath? Portland is roughly $20 Million away from the salary floor with no one to spend money on. I don't see this as anything but a "We spend it now or we spend it later and get nothing out of it" move that is gambling on the small chance that Kanter can improve his defense. They aren't competing and they know that, which means a gamble is worthwhile for them.

They've also trolled a few teams in their division by doing similar things in the past. Mostly the Jazz. The Jazz connection is probably why they are doing this lol.

Right, this is just a trolling...they have put the Thunder in a damned if you do/don't scenario.

[Bravenewworld]

And again, what does that have to do with us as a team?
What overall are you drawing from that?

Have you ever had a single link in a chain break? All the others might be sturdy as hell, but if one goes...

I mean.. that's a great analogy if we were not talking about a team of 15 players that make up for one another faults and consist of mostly imperfect players.

[bondom34]

That Kanter's deficiencies remain the same. He's got great strength, but at least the same deficiency, and paying that this much money doesn't make a ton of sense.

...... yet again, this is what everyone in the NBA expected of this situation. Clearly there is a level of sense it makes if you don't try to add nonsense... if you dont try to say things like "jazz had best defense for 20 games after Kanter" and suggesting that we can draw anything from that and apply it to our team.

Again, i hope youre paying attention to what happens when you focus on nit picked advanced stats too much. Because right now you've used this stuff to justify arguing against the value every single professional and anyone in the know seems to understand.

I've never used anything to argue what every professional understands. Every one understands he's an awful, terrible, horrendous sieve on defense. And the fact that an entire career of evidence that points to this is worrisome, and signing him to a 70 mil contract and blindly saying "its different now" is wild to me.

[Soonerule]

There is a very simple explanation why Kanter's defense.... or total lack of defense is very relevant. He is a center and listed solely as a center. I have seen the excuse used that Utah misused him by playing him at power forward instead of his natural position on this very board. There is nothing behind a bad defensive center but pay-dirt for opposing teams.

Zach Randolph and Chris Bosh are listed as center/PF, ZBo spends the vast majority of his time on the floor primarily playing the 4 with an elite defensive center behind him. I'm not entirely sure why Bosh is even mentioned because he has a career BPM of 1.4 that is well below what his BPM average was at Toronto which negates the argument that Kanter's numbers will improve when KD returns. Defensively, Bosh is no Marc Gasol, but he is better than Kanter and his career -3.1 BPM. When Bosh went from being the man in Toronto to #3 in the pecking order in Miami, his numbers went down, not up. Doesn't exactly strengthen the argument that Kanter's numbers will be better with all the kids back together.

[Soonerule]

And again, what does that have to do with us as a team?
What overall are you drawing from that?

Have you ever had a single link in a chain break? All the others might be sturdy as hell, but if one goes...

I mean.. that's a great analogy if we were not talking about a team of 15 players that make up for one another faults and consist of mostly imperfect players.

A better one is a house built on quicksand. Best materials in the world won't save a house with no foundation.

[Waynearchetype]

And again, what does that have to do with us as a team?
What overall are you drawing from that?

Have you ever had a single link in a chain break? All the others might be sturdy as hell, but if one goes...

I mean.. that's a great analogy if we were not talking about a team of 15 players that make up for one another faults and consist of mostly imperfect players.

Let's go with some examples from last year.

DET W/ Smith
DET W/O Smith

GSW playing Lee
GSW Not playing Lee

Mavs W/ Rondo
Mavs W/O Rondo.

On / Off numbers do directly impact teams win totals. Sometimes removing a single weak link can make the whole team stronger.