Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland

[GswStorm3]

Bondom, that's not "breaking up a team" at all. Lee was getting DNP's during the end of the season and most of playoffs. And Lee wanted to go to a place where he would actually get minutes after being a good soldier which coincided with Lacob saving tax. If Lee wanted to stay and was getting a 20+ minute rotation, he might have been kept.

This is sort of the equivalent of saying OKC broke up their team had they had won it all and traded Collison's declining backup or Jeremy Lamb on their last year when they wanted to go. Maybe the equivalent of trading Perkins. Lee was eventually the 9th or 10th man on the depth chart. It's certainly much less of a breakup than trading Harden after reaching the finals. Lee would be a 1 and Harden would be a 10 as far as squad breakups go. Not meaning to delabor that trade, but putting things in perspective by comparison.

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.

That's being generous considering you have very little to show for that trade.

lol at even comparing the returns from Harden and Lee. That makes no sense at all.

[bondom34]

And that's what I said. But trading for Wallace is worse than trading for actual NBA players. The return for Lee would be a 1 and Harden like a 5 in comparison too, I know the trade wasn't ideal but I'm gonna be flat honest, most OKC fans don't care that much about it and everyone else won't let it go. Its the Bill Simmons effect.

That's being generous considering you have very little to show for that trade.

lol at even comparing the returns from Harden and Lee. That makes no sense at all.

Again, comparing something at all to 10 million in dead weight.

[a_sensei]

It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet]

Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.

That contract they offered Wes Matthews was so toxic the Jazz couldn't match it. They sure dodged a bullet on that one!

/greenestfont

Neither Millsap nor Matthews contracts ended up being over market value. Both were smart moves. Kanter, not so sure about this one if OKC doesn't match.

[GswStorm3]

That's being generous considering you have very little to show for that trade.

lol at even comparing the returns from Harden and Lee. That makes no sense at all.

Again, comparing something at all to 10 million in dead weight.

Still doesn't make it rational because the circumstances are completely different.

[bondom34]

lol at even comparing the returns from Harden and Lee. That makes no sense at all.

Again, comparing something at all to 10 million in dead weight.

Still doesn't make it rational because the circumstances are completely different.

Sorta, but the comparison wasn't really meant to be exact. Was just saying if you're bashing one, bash em both. Harden would have put OKC in the tax anyway, and they let him go for other reasons IMO, he wanted out. That's all I'm sayin.

[Agenda42]

Sorta, but the comparison wasn't really meant to be exact. Was just saying if you're bashing one, bash em both. Harden would have put OKC in the tax anyway, and they let him go for other reasons IMO, he wanted out. That's all I'm sayin.

Harden didn't want out. Harden wanted max. Presti offered him sixth man money. Didn't think he could support three max players in OKC.

In hindsight, if Presti knew about the upcoming TV deal, he probably would have maxed Harden out.

[bondom34]

Sorta, but the comparison wasn't really meant to be exact. Was just saying if you're bashing one, bash em both. Harden would have put OKC in the tax anyway, and they let him go for other reasons IMO, he wanted out. That's all I'm sayin.

Harden didn't want out. Harden wanted max. Presti offered him sixth man money. Didn't think he could support three max players in OKC.

In hindsight, if Presti knew about the upcoming TV deal, he probably would have maxed Harden out.

Actually from people who've worked for the team I've heard Harden wanted out. It wasn't sixth man money, it was a pretty small difference. Harden earned it too.

[monopoman]

I don't hate Kanter as much as most people around here do but why is Portland interested in him? Their front court is already pretty crowded.

It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet]

Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.

Plenty of teams have had this done to them, how about the Batum contract offer by the Wolves that forced Portland to match.

The point of a RFA is to see what the market sets for the players, crap last year Dallas offered the max to Parsons and Houston didn't match. Notice how they both play in the same division, and how the Wolves and Blazers play in the same division.

Acting like Portland is the only team to offer contracts to RFA's is a joke.

[Effigy]

Sorta, but the comparison wasn't really meant to be exact. Was just saying if you're bashing one, bash em both. Harden would have put OKC in the tax anyway, and they let him go for other reasons IMO, he wanted out. That's all I'm sayin.

Harden didn't want out. Harden wanted max. Presti offered him sixth man money. Didn't think he could support three max players in OKC.

In hindsight, if Presti knew about the upcoming TV deal, he probably would have maxed Harden out.

Actually from people who've worked for the team I've heard Harden wanted out. It wasn't sixth man money, it was a pretty small difference. Harden earned it too.

That's just damage control spin, and you shouldn't listen to it. Okc tried to resign him cheap and pay him less than he was worth. No player coming off their rookie deal has ever turned down a max contract. Remember the talks that Irving and Davis didnt want to stay with their teams? What did they both do? They took the money. If okc had offered Harden what he was worth he would still be there. Everything else is damage control.

[LofJ]

It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet]

Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.

Plenty of teams have had this done to them, how about the Batum contract offer by the Wolves that forced Portland to match.

The point of a RFA is to see what the market sets for the players, crap last year Dallas offered the max to Parsons and Houston didn't match. Notice how they both play in the same division, and how the Wolves and Blazers play in the same division.

Acting like Portland is the only team to offer contracts to RFA's is a joke.

And 1, we did it the Jazz last year with Hayward too.

[bondom34]

Harden didn't want out. Harden wanted max. Presti offered him sixth man money. Didn't think he could support three max players in OKC.

In hindsight, if Presti knew about the upcoming TV deal, he probably would have maxed Harden out.

Actually from people who've worked for the team I've heard Harden wanted out. It wasn't sixth man money, it was a pretty small difference. Harden earned it too.

That's just damage control spin, and you shouldn't listen to it. Okc trued to resign him cheap and pay him less than he was worth. No player coming off their rookie deal has ever turned down a max contract. Remember the talks that Irving and Davis didnt want to stay with their teams? What did they both do? They took the money. If okc had offered Harden what he was worth he would still be there. Everything else is damage control.

That wasn't spin though, there was talk of this pre-contract talk. Ultimately sure, they could likely have gotten him to stay, but then you still have the issue with having terrible bigs, and Harden possibly still wanting out later. Honestly I respect Harden for it, he left with class and never said a bad word or did a bad deed to OKC.

[Agenda42]

Actually from people who've worked for the team I've heard Harden wanted out. It wasn't sixth man money, it was a pretty small difference. Harden earned it too.

I think it's a respect thing. Harden is a max player. He wants a max contract. He was going to get one from 20 teams in free agency. Didn't get one from the Thunder.

I also hear that Presti wasn't willing to give him a starting role; he wanted Harden to continue to come off the bench. Again, it's a respect thing.

The last thing I hear is that when Harden was presented with OKC's final offer, they gave him an hour to sign it.

I have confidence that if Presti offers max money and the starting 2 spot in the rotation, Harden signs. I can think of only one guy ever who opted for the qualifying offer instead of taking the max extension. I think he pushed Harden out the door.

[bondom34]

Actually from people who've worked for the team I've heard Harden wanted out. It wasn't sixth man money, it was a pretty small difference. Harden earned it too.

I think it's a respect thing. Harden is a max player. He wants a max contract. He was going to get one from 20 teams in free agency. Didn't get one from the Thunder.

I also hear that Presti wasn't willing to give him a starting role; he wanted Harden to continue to come off the bench. Again, it's a respect thing.

The last thing I hear is that when Harden was presented with OKC's final offer, they gave him an hour to sign it.

I have confidence that if Presti offers max money and the starting 2 spot in the rotation, Harden signs. I think he pushed Harden out the door.

I don't know about the hour thing, that was just rumored from Harden, and I agree he'd stay on those terms. That said, I think his role was perfect when he was in OKC. I'd still have rathered him a sixth man playing a ton more minutes than a starter (though I get the "pride" factor of it). Props to the guy, I respect his decision.

[improper]

Actually from people who've worked for the team I've heard Harden wanted out. It wasn't sixth man money, it was a pretty small difference. Harden earned it too.

That's just damage control spin, and you shouldn't listen to it. Okc trued to resign him cheap and pay him less than he was worth. No player coming off their rookie deal has ever turned down a max contract. Remember the talks that Irving and Davis didnt want to stay with their teams? What did they both do? They took the money. If okc had offered Harden what he was worth he would still be there. Everything else is damage control.

That wasn't spin though, there was talk of this pre-contract talk. Ultimately sure, they could likely have gotten him to stay, but then you still have the issue with having terrible bigs, and Harden possibly still wanting out later. Honestly I respect Harden for it, he left with class and never said a bad word or did a bad deed to OKC.

Your team had just made the Finals with all their best players being under the age of 25! Terrible bigs clearly weren't a problem for them. They didn't lose to Miami because of their terrible bigs. They lots because Miami was just a better, older, more experienced team. It was absolutely absurd of OKC to blow up that team by trading Harden. They could have made the Finals every year for the better part of a decade, but instead they're just hoping Durant doesn't decide to bolt in a year.

Look, I get that OKC fans want to support their teams' decisions, but defending that Harden trade is just absurd. It may go down as the worst NBA trade of all time.

[bondom34]

That's just damage control spin, and you shouldn't listen to it. Okc trued to resign him cheap and pay him less than he was worth. No player coming off their rookie deal has ever turned down a max contract. Remember the talks that Irving and Davis didnt want to stay with their teams? What did they both do? They took the money. If okc had offered Harden what he was worth he would still be there. Everything else is damage control.

That wasn't spin though, there was talk of this pre-contract talk. Ultimately sure, they could likely have gotten him to stay, but then you still have the issue with having terrible bigs, and Harden possibly still wanting out later. Honestly I respect Harden for it, he left with class and never said a bad word or did a bad deed to OKC.

Your team had just made the Finals with all their best players being under the age of 25! Terrible bigs clearly weren't a problem for them. They didn't lose to Miami because of their terrible bigs. They lots because Miami was just a better, older, more experienced team. It was absolutely absurd of OKC to blow up that team by trading Harden. They could have made the Finals every year for the better part of a decade, but instead they're just hoping Durant doesn't decide to bolt in a year.

Look, I get that OKC fans want to support their teams' decisions, but defending that Harden trade is just absurd. It may go down as the worst NBA trade of all time.

I "defend" it lightly, I'm not saying they won the trade or anything, just that it happened, its over, and they came out pretty well. They ultimately improved the roster in the end IMO, and it certainly won't be the bold unless Harden wins a bunch of rings and MVP trophys.

[jazzfan1980]

It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet]

Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.

Plenty of teams have had this done to them, how about the Batum contract offer by the Wolves that forced Portland to match.

The point of a RFA is to see what the market sets for the players, crap last year Dallas offered the max to Parsons and Houston didn't match. Notice how they both play in the same division, and how the Wolves and Blazers play in the same division.

Acting like Portland is the only team to offer contracts to RFA's is a joke.

Relax man it was a joke from a fan of a rival team in the same division regarding the Blazers taking Matthews from us and offering that contract to Millsap.

[andrewww]

I don't know about the hour thing, that was just rumored from Harden, and I agree he'd stay on those terms. That said, I think his role was perfect when he was in OKC. I'd still have rathered him a sixth man playing a ton more minutes than a starter (though I get the "pride" factor of it). Props to the guy, I respect his decision.

The mistake that Presti made to begin all of this was extending Perkins in March of 2011. Perkins' only does 1 thing well if you really think about it, and that's being the primary defender on a traditional back to the basket big.

Against Miami in the 2012 finals, had Brooks' actually adjusted and went small with a Westbrook/Harden/Sefolosha/Durant/Ibaka lineup the series may have changed completely. Instead, he insisted on playing Perkins 20 minutes a game. In contrast to that, Kerr took out Bogut against the Cavs even though it might have been a shocking decision at the time, ultimately that's what separates good coaching from bad ones in the playoffs quite often.

If you had started Harden beginning in the 2012 Finals and assured him of that going forward, they could have (and should have) kept him as part of their core, if money wasn't the issue as you say. Brooks should have been long gone imo. We'll see if Billy Donovan is an upgrade soon enough.

[StocktonShorts]

With all the RFAs this year I'm absolutely stunned this is the first major offer sheet. I think this many RFAs re-signing with their own teams without first signing an offer sheet is unprecedented.

[improper]

With all the RFAs this year I'm absolutely stunned this is the first major offer sheet. I think this many RFAs re-signing with their own teams without first signing an offer sheet is unprecedented.

It's because teams know the cap spike is coming, and thus were more willing to lock down their free agents to long term deals with the knowledge that the deals wouldn't be crippling.

[inquisitive]

so when is the deadline for okc to match or not? tomorrow?