OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

dgonz424 · Post #1181 » by **dgonz424** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:19 pm

bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:Thunder fans, I come in peace. Curious about a few things.

Anybody recall exactly how the Harden debacle went down? I don't remember how much the front office offered him or what their payroll would look like or if the negotiations were before or after the Finals they lost to the Heat.

I'm asking to get perspective on the whole Kanter situation. Who knows? Maybe Kanter is a better fit than Harden since Westbrook and Harden are both ball dominant guards.

My personal thoughts (though not sure everyone agrees):

They offered Harden a little under what he took (I think 4/54 instead of 4/60 or something). They would still have had Perk as the starting C, and wouldn't have had Adams to replace him the last 2 years, meaning that ultimately they'd still be looking for any capable starting big this summer with nothing more than the likely taxpayer MLE to get said player. They also wouldn't have McGary to eventually replace Collison.

That said, they'd be better off at the SG obviously, but its essentially to me a one or the other situation. Would you rather be set at the wing and have a glaring hole in the middle, or be set in the frontcourt entirely or have a weakness at the 2? It wasn't an ideal situation, but to me it was alright.

I think the problems in the frontcourt stem back to when the Thunder traded for Perkins and sent off Jeff Green. I feel they could've done better than Perkins and Robinson. Kanter and Harden aren't equal value, could've done better there as well, but I have no idea who the Thunder could've traded with.

As an outsider looking in, it seems like Presti has been pretty bad in everything but the draft.

Post #1182 » by **bondom34** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:22 pm

dgonz424 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:Thunder fans, I come in peace. Curious about a few things.

Anybody recall exactly how the Harden debacle went down? I don't remember how much the front office offered him or what their payroll would look like or if the negotiations were before or after the Finals they lost to the Heat.

I'm asking to get perspective on the whole Kanter situation. Who knows? Maybe Kanter is a better fit than Harden since Westbrook and Harden are both ball dominant guards.

My personal thoughts (though not sure everyone agrees):

They offered Harden a little under what he took (I think 4/54 instead of 4/60 or something). They would still have had Perk as the starting C, and wouldn't have had Adams to replace him the last 2 years, meaning that ultimately they'd still be looking for any capable starting big this summer with nothing more than the likely taxpayer MLE to get said player. They also wouldn't have McGary to eventually replace Collison.

That said, they'd be better off at the SG obviously, but its essentially to me a one or the other situation. Would you rather be set at the wing and have a glaring hole in the middle, or be set in the frontcourt entirely or have a weakness at the 2? It wasn't an ideal situation, but to me it was alright.

I think the problems in the frontcourt stem back to when the Thunder traded for Perkins and sent off Jeff Green. I feel they could've done better than Perkins and Robinson. Kanter and Harden aren't equal value, could've done better there as well, but I have no idea who the Thunder could've traded with.

As an outsider looking in, it seems like Presti has been pretty bad in everything but the draft.

He's been awesome draft wise, but to me the only trade he was definitely on the down side of (at least that was a non-minor trade) was Harden. He basically gave up no value for Kanter so it worked out OK. The Green/Perk deal was weird, because it ultimately ended in both guys going to new teams, not being very good, and getting overpayed (Perk moreso but Green as well).

dgonz424 · Post #1183 » by **dgonz424** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:34 pm

bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:My personal thoughts (though not sure everyone agrees):

They offered Harden a little under what he took (I think 4/54 instead of 4/60 or something). They would still have had Perk as the starting C, and wouldn't have had Adams to replace him the last 2 years, meaning that ultimately they'd still be looking for any capable starting big this summer with nothing more than the likely taxpayer MLE to get said player. They also wouldn't have McGary to eventually replace Collison.

That said, they'd be better off at the SG obviously, but its essentially to me a one or the other situation. Would you rather be set at the wing and have a glaring hole in the middle, or be set in the frontcourt entirely or have a weakness at the 2? It wasn't an ideal situation, but to me it was alright.

I think the problems in the frontcourt stem back to when the Thunder traded for Perkins and sent off Jeff Green. I feel they could've done better than Perkins and Robinson. Kanter and Harden aren't equal value, could've done better there as well, but I have no idea who the Thunder could've traded with.

As an outsider looking in, it seems like Presti has been pretty bad in everything but the draft.

He's been awesome draft wise, but to me the only trade he was definitely on the down side of (at least that was a non-minor trade) was Harden. He basically gave up no value for Kanter so it worked out OK. The Green/Perk deal was weird, because it ultimately ended in both guys going to new teams, not being very good, and getting overpayed (Perk moreso but Green as well).

He has been EXCELLENT in the draft. He did okay in the Kanter trade, mostly for dumping Perkins (goes back to the issue I referred to). Jackson was traded while his stock was high and from what I recall he demanded the trade to become a starter. Green is just so inconsistent, it's frustrating. My dad's a Celtics fan and I'd watch some games. He's destined to be a journeyman.

Not to be inflammatory but it seems like Presti overreacted to Harden shrinking in the Finals and the team has suffered since then. I'd argue that they were bound to peak just short of a ring because of the trade for Perkins. Brooks never seemed like much of a factor anyway.

Enough from me. Thanks for the talk. Best of luck to you guys and I hope your team doesn't deal with health issues next season.

Post #1184 » by **bondom34** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:54 pm

dgonz424 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:
I think the problems in the frontcourt stem back to when the Thunder traded for Perkins and sent off Jeff Green. I feel they could've done better than Perkins and Robinson. Kanter and Harden aren't equal value, could've done better there as well, but I have no idea who the Thunder could've traded with.

As an outsider looking in, it seems like Presti has been pretty bad in everything but the draft.

He's been awesome draft wise, but to me the only trade he was definitely on the down side of (at least that was a non-minor trade) was Harden. He basically gave up no value for Kanter so it worked out OK. The Green/Perk deal was weird, because it ultimately ended in both guys going to new teams, not being very good, and getting overpayed (Perk moreso but Green as well).

He has been EXCELLENT in the draft. He did okay in the Kanter trade, mostly for dumping Perkins (goes back to the issue I referred to). Jackson was traded while his stock was high and from what I recall he demanded the trade to become a starter. Green is just so inconsistent, it's frustrating. My dad's a Celtics fan and I'd watch some games. He's destined to be a journeyman.

Not to be inflammatory but it seems like Presti overreacted to Harden shrinking in the Finals and the team has suffered since then. I'd argue that they were bound to peak just short of a ring because of the trade for Perkins. Brooks never seemed like much of a factor anyway.

Enough from me. Thanks for the talk. Best of luck to you guys and I hope your team doesn't deal with health issues next season.

Yep, pretty much agreed, and no prob stop by any time!

Soonerule · Post #1185 » by **Soonerule** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:43 pm

bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:He's been awesome draft wise, but to me the only trade he was definitely on the down side of (at least that was a non-minor trade) was Harden. He basically gave up no value for Kanter so it worked out OK. The Green/Perk deal was weird, because it ultimately ended in both guys going to new teams, not being very good, and getting overpayed (Perk moreso but Green as well).

He has been EXCELLENT in the draft. He did okay in the Kanter trade, mostly for dumping Perkins (goes back to the issue I referred to). Jackson was traded while his stock was high and from what I recall he demanded the trade to become a starter. Green is just so inconsistent, it's frustrating. My dad's a Celtics fan and I'd watch some games. He's destined to be a journeyman.

Not to be inflammatory but it seems like Presti overreacted to Harden shrinking in the Finals and the team has suffered since then. I'd argue that they were bound to peak just short of a ring because of the trade for Perkins. Brooks never seemed like much of a factor anyway.

Enough from me. Thanks for the talk. Best of luck to you guys and I hope your team doesn't deal with health issues next season.

Yep, pretty much agreed, and no prob stop by any time!

Don't forget, the financial dynamics of the Thunder ownership group changed dramatically when George Kaiser and his b-b-b-billions bought into the team last April.

The Harden situation probably would have played out very differently if the Thunder had Kaiser then. The Perk trade? Obviously, Perk was an offensive stiff, but he did bring a tough minded attitude that served the Thunder pretty well, especially on defense. Before Perk, we struggled to stop anything. Obvioulsly promoting Serge helped a great deal, but replacing Nenad Krstic was a big help as well. The results didn't turn out too bad either.

The Waiter's move? that's a tough one.

dgonz424 · Post #1186 » by **dgonz424** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:23 pm

Soonerule wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:
He has been EXCELLENT in the draft. He did okay in the Kanter trade, mostly for dumping Perkins (goes back to the issue I referred to). Jackson was traded while his stock was high and from what I recall he demanded the trade to become a starter. Green is just so inconsistent, it's frustrating. My dad's a Celtics fan and I'd watch some games. He's destined to be a journeyman.

Not to be inflammatory but it seems like Presti overreacted to Harden shrinking in the Finals and the team has suffered since then. I'd argue that they were bound to peak just short of a ring because of the trade for Perkins. Brooks never seemed like much of a factor anyway.

Enough from me. Thanks for the talk. Best of luck to you guys and I hope your team doesn't deal with health issues next season.

Yep, pretty much agreed, and no prob stop by any time!

Don't forget, the financial dynamics of the Thunder ownership group changed dramatically when George Kaiser and his b-b-b-billions bought into the team last April.

The Harden situation probably would have played out very differently if the Thunder had Kaiser then. The Perk trade? Obviously, Perk was an offensive stiff, but he did bring a tough minded attitude that served the Thunder pretty well, especially on defense. Before Perk, we struggled to stop anything. Obvioulsly promoting Serge helped a great deal, but replacing Nenad Krstic was a big help as well. The results didn't turn out too bad either.

The Waiter's move? that's a tough one.

I can't forget what I didn't even know :lol:

The Perk trade wasn't a travesty, I just feel you guys could've fetched more for Green.

Seems like you guys have had riches in guards and fowards and had to pour too many assets into the center position. All I'm saying is those extras could've fetched more than Perkins and Kanter. My personal opinion. Maybe I'm spoiled with Riley.

Post #1187 » by **bondom34** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:28 pm

Also, off topic sorta but speaking on bad big play, Hash got tosdrd from a summer league game today lol.

Thunderhead · Post #1188 » by **Thunderhead** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:37 am

Done deal

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/620391205398929408[/tweet]

Soonerule · Post #1189 » by **Soonerule** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:41 am

dgonz424 wrote:
I can't forget what I didn't even know

The Perk trade wasn't a travesty, I just feel you guys could've fetched more for Green.

Seems like you guys have had riches in guards and fowards and had to pour too many assets into the center position. All I'm saying is those extras could've fetched more than Perkins and Kanter. My personal opinion. Maybe I'm spoiled with Riley.

My apologies, I was directing that response to bondom. (I was on my secondary computer when I made that response and it really really hates this website for some reason.... primarily because it is a piece of junk....) Typing a response on it takes forever and trying to trim one down to just the previous comment is a nightmare.

So add a bit of history to what I said; at the time of the Harden trade the Thunder were more ..... let's say... limited before George Kaiser bought into the ownership group in April of last year. Forbes lists Kaiser's worth somewhere north of $9.3 billion. Wow, it boggles the mind to think about that kind of money and the power it can provide. If I remember right, the owner he bought out was worth about 3/4 of a billion, hardly chicken feed, but you catch the drift I'm sure.

At the time of the Perkin's trade, Ron Adams was one of the Thunder assistants and I have always felt he played some part in the decision making process there and as I said to bondom, it wasn't a total disaster until Brooks thought Perk could out rebound Bosh in the 2012 Finals, lol. What a maroon.... (goat me all you want bondom, it's true.... inside joke dgonz424, pay no attention).

The Kanter trade, IMO, was a rush job brought about when Reggie Jackson wouldn't ride out the season and wanted to be traded. It was rumored that Presti went after Lopez first, but when that fell through he went with Kanter. At the time, I felt the best part of that trade was DJ Augustin. He stepped in for Rose pretty nicely at Chicago and is perfectly happy coming off the bench. He'll do until Cameron Payne gets up to speed.

... and you should be spoiled with Pat Riley, he has done a great job for you guys.

Soonerule · Post #1190 » by **Soonerule** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:47 am

Thunderhead wrote:Done deal

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/620391205398929408[/tweet]

Here's hoping for the best.... :party:

.... I'll be the guy on the right.

Oh well.

Post #1191 » by **bondom34** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:50 am

Welp, he's the Thunder's. Look at it this way, the kid is still young and never played with the team healthy. They also won a ton before Serge went out, I've been talking myself into this, I'm good with it.

Thunder up!

dgonz424 · Post #1192 » by **dgonz424** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:52 am

Soonerule wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:
I can't forget what I didn't even know

The Perk trade wasn't a travesty, I just feel you guys could've fetched more for Green.

Seems like you guys have had riches in guards and fowards and had to pour too many assets into the center position. All I'm saying is those extras could've fetched more than Perkins and Kanter. My personal opinion. Maybe I'm spoiled with Riley.

My apologies, I was directing that response to bondom. (I was on my secondary computer when I made that response and it really really hates this website for some reason.... primarily because it is a piece of junk....) Typing a response on it takes forever and trying to trim one down to just the previous comment is a nightmare.

So add a bit of history to what I said; at the time of the Harden trade the Thunder were more ..... let's say... limited before George Kaiser bought into the ownership group in April of last year. Forbes lists Kaiser's worth somewhere north of $9.3 billion. Wow, it boggles the mind to think about that kind of money and the power it can provide. If I remember right, the owner he bought out was worth about 3/4 of a billion, hardly chicken feed, but you catch the drift I'm sure.

At the time of the Perkin's trade, Ron Adams was one of the Thunder assistants and I have always felt he played some part in the decision making process there and as I said to bondom, it wasn't a total disaster until Brooks thought Perk could out rebound Bosh in the 2012 Finals, lol. What a maroon.... (goat me all you want bondom, it's true.... inside joke dgonz424, pay no attention).

The Kanter trade, IMO, was a rush job brought about when Reggie Jackson wouldn't ride out the season and wanted to be traded. It was rumored that Presti went after Lopez first, but when that fell through he went with Kanter. At the time, I felt the best part of that trade was DJ Augustin. He stepped in for Rose pretty nicely at Chicago and is perfectly happy coming off the bench. He'll do until Cameron Payne gets up to speed.

... and you should be spoiled with Pat Riley, he has done a great job for you guys.

Oh no, I just noticed you actually did quote bondom. It's just that I got a notification of being quoted and I didn't notice bondom's short response, so I responded to your post. You were right.

I've read reports that the previous Thunder owner was a major cheapskate.

I've NEVER liked Perkins. Used to watch him play for the Celtics since my dad's a Bostonian and I jokingly nicknamed him "Prison Face". To not be able to out rebound Bosh is RIDICULOUS for a guy of that build. Absolutely worthless.

I read that rumor about Lopez to OKC, yeah. Weird that it didn't work out. Billy King is a MORON that needed to dump salary and could've gotten rid of an injury prone Lopez. Would've been worth a shot for you guys, though. Perkins is tuuurrrblllleee *Charles Barkley voice* I'm surprised Prokhorov hasn't had King whacked for destroying that franchise.

bbms · Post #1193 » by **bbms** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:56 am

On the Harden debacle:

1- NBA cap was tougher to manage.
2- Thunder wasn't ready to go deep into cap.
3 - He didn't want to take a paycut like WEstbrook and Ibaka.
4 - I think Thunder really liked Jeremy Lamb. He had a draft profile that Presti enjoy drafting.

Enviado do meu iPhone usando o RealGM Forums

KD35Brah · Post #1194 » by **KD35Brah** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:06 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/620393415482736640[/tweet]

KD35Brah · Post #1195 » by **KD35Brah** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:13 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/620399827109543940[/tweet]

Post #1196 » by **bondom34** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:23 am

Alright, I'm happy with this, it isn't ideal, but better than letting him walk. And just keep remembering the games before Serge went down.

Soonerule · Post #1197 » by **Soonerule** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:29 am

KD35Brah wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/620399827109543940[/tweet]

Hey, I've stated my piece, but he is, for better or worse "our boy" ...for however long. So go get'em kid! I'm a Thunder fan, I'm sure not going to root against him.... talk about him? that's another story all together... but never root against him.

Maybe I have the kid all wrong and he will work on his defense. At this point he can't defend a brick, but I'm sure with hard work he will upgrade his skills and be able to guard the little old ladies from the Edmond rest home by the end of the season lol I kid, I'm sure he'll be able to stone those little old men too, at least the one's on oxygen..... :eyebrows:

Thunderhead · Post #1198 » by **Thunderhead** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:41 am

We are seeing , just the beginning of salary inflation from the new TV money. Ya gotta put this in the perspective of two years from now , and on top of that, a new CBA, which I think the BRI is gonna swing back to the players rather than 50/50.

Every player will be making far more money.

Post #1199 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:54 am

dgonz424 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
dgonz424 wrote:Thunder fans, I come in peace. Curious about a few things.

Anybody recall exactly how the Harden debacle went down? I don't remember how much the front office offered him or what their payroll would look like or if the negotiations were before or after the Finals they lost to the Heat.

I'm asking to get perspective on the whole Kanter situation. Who knows? Maybe Kanter is a better fit than Harden since Westbrook and Harden are both ball dominant guards.

My personal thoughts (though not sure everyone agrees):

They offered Harden a little under what he took (I think 4/54 instead of 4/60 or something). They would still have had Perk as the starting C, and wouldn't have had Adams to replace him the last 2 years, meaning that ultimately they'd still be looking for any capable starting big this summer with nothing more than the likely taxpayer MLE to get said player. They also wouldn't have McGary to eventually replace Collison.

That said, they'd be better off at the SG obviously, but its essentially to me a one or the other situation. Would you rather be set at the wing and have a glaring hole in the middle, or be set in the frontcourt entirely or have a weakness at the 2? It wasn't an ideal situation, but to me it was alright.

I think the problems in the frontcourt stem back to when the Thunder traded for Perkins and sent off Jeff Green. I feel they could've done better than Perkins and Robinson. Kanter and Harden aren't equal value, could've done better there as well, but I have no idea who the Thunder could've traded with.

As an outsider looking in, it seems like Presti has been pretty bad in everything but the draft.

I'm just a guy on the internet, but my cubiclemate worked with the girlfriend of one of the Thunder players. He said she told him in the summer, before any of the Harden trade stuff came out, that Harden wanted out.

FWIW.

Soonerule · Post #1200 » by **Soonerule** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:05 am

Thunderhead wrote:We are seeing , just the beginning of salary inflation from the new TV money. Ya gotta put this in the perspective of two years from now , and on top of that, a new CBA, which I think the BRI is gonna swing back to the players rather than 50/50.

Every player will be making far more money.

no doubt, and in honor of Kanter's future "middle tier" contract, I have made his image my avatar.