Summer League Fun

[carey]

I haven't seen any difference between TJ last year and TJ this year - except the shot's not falling as well this year. Archie, OTOH, looks much improved, both in terms of passing and shooting. Still not a great a ballhandler, still not a great defender, but I think he'll play this season. Pretty obvious that Booker's not going to leapfrog him in the rotation.

I love how things are obvious 2 games into Summer League. The only thing I'm even remotely comfortable saying about a Suns player is that Brown isn't ready for the NBA (and who knows he might come out and hit 5 3s next game.)

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I haven't seen any difference between TJ last year and TJ this year - except the shot's not falling as well this year. Archie, OTOH, looks much improved, both in terms of passing and shooting. Still not a great a ballhandler, still not a great defender, but I think he'll play this season. Pretty obvious that Booker's not going to leapfrog him in the rotation.

I love how things are obvious 2 games into Summer League. The only thing I'm even remotely comfortable saying about a Suns player is that Brown isn't ready for the NBA (and who knows he might come out and hit 5 3s next game.)

I mean, it IS pretty obvious. Not only is Archie much more prepared from a physical standpoint, but he's paid some dues and, at this point, a better 3 point shooter. This makes some sense - after all, he's been practicing that shot for 2 years.

I'd be stoked if we actually had a talent glut at the 2 spot. GMs would be calling non-stop.

[Damkac]

Goodwin and Bledsoe are very similar. Same strenghts and weaknesses (except for defence that is Bledsoe's strenght and Goodwin's weakness).
I wonder if the same users support both Goodwin and Bledsoe and the same users wants them gone.

[JMac1]

I haven't seen any difference between TJ last year and TJ this year - except the shot's not falling as well this year. Archie, OTOH, looks much improved, both in terms of passing and shooting. Still not a great a ballhandler, still not a great defender, but I think he'll play this season. Pretty obvious that Booker's not going to leapfrog him in the rotation.

I love how things are obvious 2 games into Summer League. The only thing I'm even remotely comfortable saying about a Suns player is that Brown isn't ready for the NBA (and who knows he might come out and hit 5 3s next game.)

Brown doesn't even play. When he did play, his shot looked good. They keep playing that sorry Pekovic lookalike..... He is horrible!!!

[MrMiyagi]

I haven't seen any difference between TJ last year and TJ this year - except the shot's not falling as well this year. Archie, OTOH, looks much improved, both in terms of passing and shooting. Still not a great a ballhandler, still not a great defender, but I think he'll play this season. Pretty obvious that Booker's not going to leapfrog him in the rotation.

I love how things are obvious 2 games into Summer League. The only thing I'm even remotely comfortable saying about a Suns player is that Brown isn't ready for the NBA (and who knows he might come out and hit 5 3s next game.)

Brown doesn't even play. When he did play, his shot looked good. They keep playing that sorry Pekovic lookalike..... He is horrible!!!

Yeah, Harrelson has been pretty bad.

[MrMiyagi]

Goodwin and Bledsoe are very similar. Same strenghts and weaknesses (except for defence that is Bledsoe's strenght and Goodwin's weakness).
I wonder if the same users support both Goodwin and Bledsoe and the same users wants them gone.

Probably. I know I like both of them. In my opinion, Goodwin has improved a lot, his jump shot isn't immaculate, but it's getting the job done now. I think his next area to improve in is just slowing it down. He's playing very aggressively which is what is leading to some of his mistakes. Like on defense, he has long arms and can disrupt passing lanes and bother ball-handlers, but he gambles on steals too often instead of bodying up his man and preventing him from dribbling where he wants to go.

[Frank Lee]

i watched a portion of the game. I feel like Goodwin is that young Barbosa kid that we had long ago. Plays with fire, drives the lane, sporadic outside shot. Neither had this defined role. Backup PG, or SG. And there is a clear division on this board regarding their success at the NBA level.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The best thing for Archie (just like with Barbosa) is to have some stability in his role and with the people he plays with and behind. I was frustrated last year when Archie had a few good games in a row... And then he was sat? For Thornton or whoever... It was really frustrating to watch and I can't imagine what he was feeling. Works hard, shows some success, and gets benched. That how you kill someone's drive and passion.

Its time to play the kid else he will be the one who decides to go elsewhere. Likely, his best contribution will come on his next contract.

[bigfoot]

i watched a portion of the game. I feel like Goodwin is that young Barbosa kid that we had long ago. Plays with fire, drives the lane, sporadic outside shot. Neither had this defined role. Backup PG, or SG. And there is a clear division on this board regarding their success at the NBA level.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The best thing for Archie (just like with Barbosa) is to have some stability in his role and with the people he plays with and behind. I was frustrated last year when Archie had a few good games in a row... And then he was sat? For Thornton or whoever... It was really frustrating to watch and I can't imagine what he was feeling. Works hard, shows some success, and gets benched. That how you kill someone's drive and passion.

Its time to play the kid else he will be the one who decides to go elsewhere. Likely, his best contribution will come on his next contract.

Barbosa started in the NBA when he was 20. He had been playing professionally in Brazil since he was 17. Goodwin has been playing professionally since he was 19. Still this is the year for Goodwin to put up or shut up. It still comes down to defense ... is he willing to play and train hard on both ends of the court.

[AtheJ415]

This is exactly what I was thinking. The best thing for Archie (just like with Barbosa) is to have some stability in his role and with the people he plays with and behind. I was frustrated last year when Archie had a few good games in a row... And then he was sat? For Thornton or whoever... It was really frustrating to watch and I can't imagine what he was feeling. Works hard, shows some success, and gets benched. That how you kill someone's drive and passion.

Its time to play the kid else he will be the one who decides to go elsewhere. Likely, his best contribution will come on his next contract.

Barbosa started in the NBA when he was 20. He had been playing professionally in Brazil since he was 17. Goodwin has been playing professionally since he was 19. Still this is the year for Goodwin to put up or shut up. It still comes down to defense ... is he willing to play and train hard on both ends of the court.

Age 20 is never the year for anybody to put up or shut up. Don't care that Barbosa managed to play at 20 surrounded by multiple all-nba players in a system that demanded he play 0 defense.

[bigfoot]

Its time to play the kid else he will be the one who decides to go elsewhere. Likely, his best contribution will come on his next contract.

Barbosa started in the NBA when he was 20. He had been playing professionally in Brazil since he was 17. Goodwin has been playing professionally since he was 19. Still this is the year for Goodwin to put up or shut up. It still comes down to defense ... is he willing to play and train hard on both ends of the court.

Age 20 is never the year for anybody to put up or shut up. Don't care that Barbosa managed to play at 20 surrounded by multiple all-nba players in a system that demanded he play 0 defense.

Goodwin will be 21 at the start of this season. Next year he will have to compete with Booker and Bogdan Bogdanović, who will be 24 at the start of the season and has been playing in Euroleague and for the Serbian National team. If Goodwin doesn't show something this season he will be trade bait for next years free agent crop.

[lilfishi22]

We're taking it slow with Goodwin but having shown only minor improvements after two seasons and coming up to his third, it's not unthinkable we could just give up on him and use him as trade bait as bigfoot mentioned. At some point, you have to decide whether you are using your development resources efficiently and effectively.

Archie doesn't need to come in and be an LB level spark of the bench but he needs to be able to contribute consistently somewhere, whether that is being an aggressive cutter or better defender or better yet, a reliable 3PT shooter.

[StarMaker]

I knew many people among the suns fans don't like Archie Goodwin. However, he is still young and has potential, even though he will turn 21 years old next month. I think he is not a trouble maker and coaches don't think he has to contribute a lot to the team in order to join the playoff this season. So it would be OK to keep him one or two more years. IMO, if Suns trade him right now, we wouldn't get a good asset we are pleased with in return for Goodwin.

[AtheJ415]

Barbosa started in the NBA when he was 20. He had been playing professionally in Brazil since he was 17. Goodwin has been playing professionally since he was 19. Still this is the year for Goodwin to put up or shut up. It still comes down to defense ... is he willing to play and train hard on both ends of the court.

Age 20 is never the year for anybody to put up or shut up. Don't care that Barbosa managed to play at 20 surrounded by multiple all-nba players in a system that demanded he play 0 defense.

Goodwin will be 21 at the start of this season. Next year he will have to compete with Booker and Bogdan Bogdanović, who will be 24 at the start of the season and has been playing in Euroleague and for the Serbian National team. If Goodwin doesn't show something this season he will be trade bait for next years free agent crop.

Maybe. Maybe not. Also Bogdan is a 3 as much as a 2 on this team. And he's outplaying Booker right now.

[LukasBMW]

I think Barbosa is a good comparison to Goodwin. Barbosa was always out of control, had no outside shot and looked like garbage his first few years.

If Goodwin can turn into a polished Barbosa, he was well worth the 29th pick.

[lilfishi22]

I think Barbosa is a good comparison to Goodwin. Barbosa was always out of control, had no outside shot and looked like garbage his first few years.

If Goodwin can turn into a polished Barbosa, he was well worth the 29th pick.

Except LB was pretty much able to contribute right away. He came into the league with 3PT range and in his first 40 games alone, he shot over 40% from the 3.

Essentially, LB had a role on the team right and had at least one successfully translated skill right away, whereas Archie after two seasons is still trying to find his.

[GetYourPHX]

I really think the Lakers will regret taking Russell over Okafor.

[LukasBMW]

I really think the Lakers will regret taking Russell over Okafor.

Plus a million.

Noel and Okafor will be a solid front line in this league. Both will make at least a couple all star teams.

Then add in their future picks and stockpile of young talent plus whoever they trade Embiid for and things are looking up in Philly.

[bwgood77]

I knew many people among the suns fans don't like Archie Goodwin. However, he is still young and has potential, even though he will turn 21 years old next month. I think he is not a trouble maker and coaches don't think he has to contribute a lot to the team in order to join the playoff this season. So it would be OK to keep him one or two more years. IMO, if Suns trade him right now, we wouldn't get a good asset we are pleased with in return for Goodwin.

I don't think there are many who don't like him. There are some who don't think he will ever get much playing time in real games unless it is garbage time, but those that think that will probably be wrong. He is a little erratic and is not a good shooter. He has hit some nice shots in SL but we know that's completely different than hitting them in a regular NBA game.

I just think Bogdan will be far more ready. I expect Weems to play more than Goodwin.

[bwgood77]

I really think the Lakers will regret taking Russell over Okafor.

I just looked at Russell and Randle's stats for tonight's game. Not impressive. And people expect their team to be "pretty good" when these guys have to face real nba competition. I think there is a good chance they keep their top 3 protected pick this year.

[StarMaker]

I knew many people among the suns fans don't like Archie Goodwin. However, he is still young and has potential, even though he will turn 21 years old next month. I think he is not a trouble maker and coaches don't think he has to contribute a lot to the team in order to join the playoff this season. So it would be OK to keep him one or two more years. IMO, if Suns trade him right now, we wouldn't get a good asset we are pleased with in return for Goodwin.

I don't think there are many who don't like him. There are some who don't think he will ever get much playing time in real games unless it is garbage time, but those that think that will probably be wrong. He is a little erratic and is not a good shooter. He has hit some nice shots in SL but we know that's completely different than hitting them in a regular NBA game.

I just think Bogdan will be far more ready. I expect Weems to play more than Goodwin.

Maybe you're right.

However I don't think Teletovic, Price, and Weems secure much more minutes than Goodwin, Warren. IMO, at least one or two of them would be like Anthony Tolliver. So I think Archie still leaves room for getting much playing time. But totally it's up to him.