Zach Lowe article on Suns and Sixers rebuild going in different directions

[bondom34]

The verge of contention?

Huh??

Contending for what? They haven't made the playoffs in 5 years guy

They've barely missed the playoffs. The Sixers barely won 20 games.

They went 10-18 without dragic and IT

Also Noel went from the worst offensive big in beginning of year to a plus player offensively after the Allstar break

His offensive metrics are better than len's the 2nd half

Len also was injured for a decent chunk of that time, and his plus/minus numbers still were better than Noel. I'd take Noel over him, but its not a "blow him out of the water, no debate" kind of thing.

[HartfordWhalers]

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

Brand was pretty much the top free agent when Philly got him, with him taking Philly's offer over equal money from LAC. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629test Ford actually had Brand the top unrestricted free agent, and Iguodala the top restricted one, and both signed.

Which pretty much killed the team's cap space till post Bynum burn down. But this year the team was only targeting 1-3 players, and they managed to get on Jimmy Butler's shortlist of 4 teams to visit.

[bondom34]

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

Brand was pretty much the top free agent when Philly got him, with him taking Philly's offer over equal money from LAC. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629test Ford actually had Brand the top unrestricted free agent, and Iguodala the top restricted one, and both signed.

Which pretty much killed the team's cap space till post Bynum burn down. But this year the team was only targeting 1-3 players, and they managed to get on Jimmy Butler's shortlist of 4 teams to visit.

So 7 years ago. And the Bynum thing is why I get what Philly's doing, but I'd still rather be in Phoenix's current position. I just see an easier way to get into contention from where they are right now.

[joyeuxnoel]

They've barely missed the playoffs. The Sixers barely won 20 games.

They went 10-18 without dragic and IT

Also Noel went from the worst offensive big in beginning of year to a plus player offensively after the Allstar break

His offensive metrics are better than len's the 2nd half

Len also was injured for a decent chunk of that time, and his plus/minus numbers still were better than Noel. I'd take Noel over him, but its not a "blow him out of the water, no debate" kind of thing.

Plus minus is a pretty misleading stat when you're comparing a bottom 5 record team to a near playoff team in the west

A better stat is how much better/worse the team is when player x is on the floor

I believe the sixers were +5 better with NN on the floor, not sure about alex len

[HartfordWhalers]

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

Brand was pretty much the top free agent when Philly got him, with him taking Philly's offer over equal money from LAC. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629test Ford actually had Brand the top unrestricted free agent, and Iguodala the top restricted one, and both signed.

Which pretty much killed the team's cap space till post Bynum burn down. But this year the team was only targeting 1-3 players, and they managed to get on Jimmy Butler's shortlist of 4 teams to visit.

So 7 years ago. And the Bynum thing is why I get what Philly's doing, but I'd still rather be in Phoenix's current position. I just see an easier way to get into contention from where they are right now.

So 7 years ago they got the best free agent (which in hindsight failed), and just this year were on Butler's shortlist of just 4 teams. Not sure why you are ignoring that second one. Put another way, Philly has been considered by a prime free agent every time they have had cap and tried.

[bondom34]

They went 10-18 without dragic and IT

Also Noel went from the worst offensive big in beginning of year to a plus player offensively after the Allstar break

His offensive metrics are better than len's the 2nd half

Len also was injured for a decent chunk of that time, and his plus/minus numbers still were better than Noel. I'd take Noel over him, but its not a "blow him out of the water, no debate" kind of thing.

Plus minus is a pretty misleading stat when you're comparing a bottom 5 record team to a near playoff team in the west

A better stat is how much better/worse the team is when player x is on the floor

I believe the sixers were +5 better with NN on the floor, not sure about alex len

Yeah, don't know how to do on/off by month, but for the season Noel was plus 0.3 net rating, Len plus 0.8.

[BullyKing]

Stockpiling picks is nice but teams full of 20-23 year olds don't just win. At some point you gotta get some veterans and commit to winning. I think OKC was the only exception but they basically drafted THREE guys who ended up winning MVPs or being legitimate MVP candidates.

Ah, this thread went on fairly long before the sacrifice offered at the altar of "veteranosity". The funny thing about 20-23 year olds is they turn into 24-28 year olds. The point is to get your Curry (27), Klay (25), and Draymond (25) then worry about adding the supporting pieces later. You get veterans when you are ready to compete. Beforehand, they just get in the way of playing time for the kids. The Sixers have always kept enough veterans around to make sure the kids learn how to be professionals (Thad, JRich, Luc).

[perezident]

Sixers organization is so bad right now. No free agent wants to even fly over that city to get to their destination....hell...even draftees are pissed to be going there. Every year bragging about tanking and still missing on talent so high in the draft year in and out.

The Embid thing was so unfortunate. Sixers can't catch a break. Meanwhile Hinikie is being praised for what? Nabbing high lottery picks year after year? Sooner or later they will have to cash in on those young studs and try to use them as trade bait and mirror what Celtics did in 07.

But, things are awful down in Philly basketball wise

[gaspar]

Len also was injured for a decent chunk of that time, and his plus/minus numbers still were better than Noel. I'd take Noel over him, but its not a "blow him out of the water, no debate" kind of thing.

Plus minus is a pretty misleading stat when you're comparing a bottom 5 record team to a near playoff team in the west

A better stat is how much better/worse the team is when player x is on the floor

I believe the sixers were +5 better with NN on the floor, not sure about alex len

Yeah, don't know how to do on/off by month, but for the season Noel was plus 0.3 net rating, Len plus 0.8.

NBA.com shows +1.6 for Len and +0.1 for Noel.

[millslapper]

But the difference is: Phoenix theoretical has a shot for the title. Their fans hope for the playoffs and when it happens to be next season, it is there. it is unrealistic, but in secret and wet dreams the possibility is there.

i don't know if i would be interested in the next jazz season, hadn't they made that big step after the allstarbreak. now the hope is playoffs and who knows? slim chances, but why not take a shot at a setup for the ages

philly has to hope that Okafor is the real deal. he shows potential, but has no midrange shot and is bad at freethrows. the last franchise changer with this weaknesses was shaq, and i'm not sure that Okafor is that dominant. Noel is "only" a defensive changer, like Gobert, really important, but stranded without proper teammates.
next years draft seems to be not that strong. embiid going to have a hard time coming back. so all philly fans could go through a lot more years of pain. don't forget that they create a losing culture. hard to get over this hump.

because of that, fighting for the playoffs with mini title chances is the better for the fans in my opinion.

[Knosh]

https://web.archive.org/web/20081012130112/http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629test Ford actually had Brand the top unrestricted free agent, and Iguodala the top restricted one, and both signed.

fixed that for you.

[rsavaj]

I'm not sure I get why Philly vs Phoenix has kinda turned into a thing. I thought the whole point of Lowe's article was that there doesn't seem to be a clearcut "right" way to rebuild.

[JDizzel3000]

1. Yep, Wolves I still debate. Towns hasn't played a game, Lavine really wasn't great, and Wiggins is looking good.

2. Len put up similar defensive numbers to Noel, and is better offensively, so don't know where you're going there.

3. Okafor has yet to play a game.

4. Eric Bledsoe is somewhere in the 5-10 range.

5. Noel vs. Len, where to begin (and saying this I like Noel too)...
RPM: Noel is a -1.5, Len a -.74, so Len wins. Also, he wins in RAPM.

Rim Protection: Len 1.13 points saved/36, Noel 1.51, Noel wins.

Box Scores:
http://bkref.com/tiny/W9NgM

Len wins in most offensive metrics, Noel defensive. Its not far off at all.

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

6. They regressed record wise because they decided to keep the young core intact and trade an older PG for 2 future firsts.

7. Why does it matter when a pick is conveyed? Its an asset, used as such. If I put money into a retirement fund, its still money, its still mine. It doesn't "not count" because its further in the future.

8. As a fan, I'd be miserable as a Sixers fan right now and this is even with the understanding of their logic. The Suns have a pretty talented young core. The Sixers have the pieces to potentially someday get one.

1.We're projecting in this thread obviously ....maybe you think KAT will be a bust ..idk ...I certainly feel confident projecting him to be a productive player in the leauge ...definitely as productive as any big on the Suns roster


2.These are not similar stats ....

Nerlens Noel: top 10 in blocks and steals, 5% block percentage, 2.9% steal percentage, DWS of 4.2, DBPM of 4.5

Alex Len: 5.3 block percentage, 1.1% steal percentage, DWS of 2.1, DBPM of 2.3

I don't know what your talking about but if you consider that to be "similar" defensive impact ...more power to you ...


Additionally on offense outside of Lens shooting % and Noel's assist rate ... I don't really see a resounding difference ...and mind you we're evaluating a rookie and a second year players seasons ...I don't believe Noel will shoot 45% again as he showed post all star break posting

13/10/2 on 53% TS

3.The "he has not played a game yet" point will end in October ....so hold on to it while you can ..lol

4.

-CP3
-Westbrook
-Wall
-Conley
-Curry
-Irving
-Dragic
-Lillard
-Lowry
-Teague

Sooooooooooo Bledsoe is better than which one of these guys again?

5. The Suns whiffed on their two big dog targets Two seasons in a row and yet again your trying to sell me on how that's a good thing? Lol ....it just a bizarre ....funny enough the guy that they did sign is going to stifle the minutes that their young so called talented big needs ...yet again ...to you.... This is a "good thing"

6.Hmmmm they regressed because they traded their PG ....yet I'm pretty sure they brought in a guy to replace him .....who looked terrible while there might I add ...yet ....I'm suppose to believe this team is on the uptick.........right


7. What do you mean why does it matter? It matters because (unless traded) that picks relevancy to this current teams rebuild has no tangible affect being that far out ... The whole argument that Suns fans have tried to make is that in the now they are in a better spot than the sixers ...yet your using an asset that can't be collected upon until 5 years from now to prove that point?? That is ridiculously contradictory to the whole foundation of the Suns fans argument.... If you want to talk about "future picks" there is no team in the NBA with more of those assets than the 6ers ...point blank


8.As a fan I'd be missable watching my team not make the playoffs for 5 straight years with no end in sight ...the Suns "talented young core" won them all of 39 games next year ...if there's some sort of redeemable value in that to Suns fans more power to them

[wickedwrister]

I'm not sure what the average age of the RealGM poster is, but as I've gotten a bit older, the "championship or bust" mentality has grown less attractive to me. As a fan of the NBA's winningest franchise without a title/the 4th highest winning percentage in NBA history, winning a title sure would be grand, but I don't think the team is an absolute failure if they never win a championship. 29 teams don't win a title every year; does that mean that their fans shouldn't watch them? Shouldn't attend their games?

Sports are supposed to be fun. Watching the Suns lose isn't very fun at all. I don't know if I would continue watching the Suns if they decided to lose 60 or 70 games every year. Now that I'm closer to 30 than 20, I don't have the time/patience anymore to stress about the Suns potentially never winning a title. My priorities as a fan have shifted. Watching basketball is one of my favorite diversions when I need to check out of the real world for a bit. When I come home from work, I want to watch a fun, competitive team filled with guys I like rooting for.

Sure, I understand the logic behind "you need superstars to win a title-->one of the easiest ways to get a superstar is to get a top 3 pick-->let's lose for 5 years and get enough top 3 picks that we're bound to get a superduperstar!", but man...those would be 5 miserable years for me as a fan.

Maybe Philly wins a title before Phoenix does, maybe they don't, but I like the idea of watching a squad that has a reasonable shot at winning more games than they lose. Might not win Phoenix any titles, but it sure as hell makes my day a bit better.

Well put and this really is the only legitimate critique of the current Sixers plan. That being said as a young-ish fan (early 30s) who has sat through years and years of the Sixers, Flyers and Eagles being playoff teams that couldn't close and outside of one Phillies title in 2008 been left with few positives in Philly sports for the last 30 years. The 2001 Sixers are revered for getting curb stomped by (an all-time great) Lakers team. The Sixers in particular spent years and years chasing mediocrity behind ownership that had a mandate to be in the playoffs yearly leading to numerous decisions that placed short term gains over long term building.

The other half of it is these last 2 years really haven't been miserable. The overall team isn't great and about every 20 games or so they get embarrassed on the court but after years of watching Doug Collins and Larry Brown inspired coaching leading to guys like George Lynch and Evan Turner jacking up 16 footers I'll actually say the last two years have been a better more entertaining product on the court.

I get it, I really do. The Sixers plan wouldn't have made sense for about 28 or maybe even 29 other teams in the NBA. If I was a fan of Memphis right now who I think is one player away from being a title contender I would be livid if the team got blown up but then again there is a big difference between Marc Gasol and Spencer Hawes. Maybe Philly fans are just so starved for well thought out, intelligent management we will follow them down whatever rabbit hole they choose.

I'm thrilled at the job Hinkie has done. 2 years ago I wouldn't have expected them to have even one guy as talented as Noel or Okafor but instead they have both and a mega lottery ticket in Embiid. After seeing this thread in the GB every other week for the past 2 years I don't expect many more people to understand where Philly fans are coming from but just know we aren't miserable and enjoying the ride.

[BullyKing]

Sixers organization is so bad right now. No free agent wants to even fly over that city to get to their destination....hell...even draftees are pissed to be going there. Every year bragging about tanking and still missing on talent so high in the draft year in and out.

The Embid thing was so unfortunate. Sixers can't catch a break. Meanwhile Hinikie is being praised for what? Nabbing high lottery picks year after year? Sooner or later they will have to cash in on those young studs and try to use them as trade bait and mirror what Celtics did in 07.

But, things are awful down in Philly basketball wise

You got to love the irony of a Kings fan talking about free agents not wanting to play in Philly.

[saintEscaton]

Wow, there's no way I'd take Detroit, I wouldn't take Philly either. The Magic are close, and the Wolves I don't know enough yet. I'd probably take the Bucks and Jazz but need more of a sample to see the Jazz are as good as the last 20 games were showing first. Phoenix has the following:

I don't see why you wouldn't take Detroit ...if your comparing the two teams I'd take Drummond as having a better future than anyone on the Suns and Reggie Jackson is definitely on the level of the Suns guards ....then you throw in Stanley Johnson and the fact that another top ten pick is more than likely on its way and I really don't get your logic behind that


The Wolves? That's debatable to you? Wiggins,Lavine,Shabazz,KAT .....really??

Philly has 4 first round picks next season ...Big Jah who I fell will be better than anyone on the Suns roster moving forward NN who put up some historically great defensive numbers during the second half of the season ...again I don't get your point

A roster younger than the Wolves and Pistons.

This is disingenuous argumentation ...the wolves core is much younger than the Suns ...guys like Kevin Garnett who will not be apart of their future artificially inflate the teams average age

All of their own picks (Minnesota owes one, not sure on Detroit). Plus 3 extra firsts including a few from Miami right around when I'd say Wade is retiring. A top 5-10 PG signed long term, a big man who's close in ability to Noel, great flexibility, and was about a day away from luring LMA there. One free agent and they could be top 4 in the west to me. That's where I'd rather be.

#1 - who's there top 5 PG who speak of?

#2 - 3 extra first? You realize that one of those doesn't come until 2021? That's 5 years away my guy? The team may not even be intact as it is currently constructed by that time...a big man close to Noel? Are you serious?? I don't know where your getting your information from ...but you might want to do some actual research on the season that Noel had last season ....here's a great grantland article on it

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/

Len is about as much of Nerleans Noel as Eddy Curry was "BABY SHAQ" lol

Lastly I'm trying to understand how LOSING out on a prime free agent is somehow being spun as a good thing ...that is amazing to me ...so they strike out on LeBron last year ...they strike out on LMA this year and your telling me that that's good and that's where you'd want to be ...?? I'm sorry man that ...is simply insane to me...no offense


The interesting thing about this is over the past 2 seasons the Suns have actually regressed record wise ...yet I'm being told they have a better future than these other teams?


Interesting.

1. Yep, Wolves I still debate. Towns hasn't played a game, Lavine really wasn't great, and Wiggins is looking good.

2. Len put up similar defensive numbers to Noel, and is better offensively, so don't know where you're going there.

3. Okafor has yet to play a game.

4. Eric Bledsoe is somewhere in the 5-10 range.

5. Noel vs. Len, where to begin (and saying this I like Noel too)...
RPM: Noel is a -1.5, Len a -.74, so Len wins. Also, he wins in RAPM.

Rim Protection: Len 1.13 points saved/36, Noel 1.51, Noel wins.

Box Scores:
http://bkref.com/tiny/W9NgM

Len wins in most offensive metrics, Noel defensive. Its not far off at all.

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

6. They regressed record wise because they decided to keep the young core intact and trade an older PG for 2 future firsts.

7. Why does it matter when a pick is conveyed? Its an asset, used as such. If I put money into a retirement fund, its still money, its still mine. It doesn't "not count" because its further in the future.

8. As a fan, I'd be miserable as a Sixers fan right now and this is even with the understanding of their logic. The Suns have a pretty talented young core. The Sixers have the pieces to potentially someday get one.

Thanks for being the voice of reason backing us up, Bondom. Posters on the General Board like JDizzel seem to spew their irrational vitriol to sh*t on all things Suns backed up wit porous argumentation as seen above. Still LOLing at that remark comparing Len to Eddy Freakin Curry and Noel to a prime Shaq

[JDizzel3000]

Cut it off wherever you'd like to, ultimately it doesn't matter to me that right now, the Suns have built a pretty solid team who are on the verge of contention. The Sixers (as much as I respect and understand their plan) don't have any foreseeable winning in the near future. I can't honestly look at that team and say in 3 years they'll be winning anything.

The verge of contention?


Huh??


Contending for what? They haven't made the playoffs in 5 years guy

They've barely missed the playoffs. The Sixers barely won 20 games.

I'll ask again since you seem to have either missed or avoided my question ...


Contending for what? They haven't made the playoffs in 5 years and finished 5 or 6 games out of the playoff race ...

[JDizzel3000]

I don't see why you wouldn't take Detroit ...if your comparing the two teams I'd take Drummond as having a better future than anyone on the Suns and Reggie Jackson is definitely on the level of the Suns guards ....then you throw in Stanley Johnson and the fact that another top ten pick is more than likely on its way and I really don't get your logic behind that


The Wolves? That's debatable to you? Wiggins,Lavine,Shabazz,KAT .....really??

Philly has 4 first round picks next season ...Big Jah who I fell will be better than anyone on the Suns roster moving forward NN who put up some historically great defensive numbers during the second half of the season ...again I don't get your point



This is disingenuous argumentation ...the wolves core is much younger than the Suns ...guys like Kevin Garnett who will not be apart of their future artificially inflate the teams average age






#1 - who's there top 5 PG who speak of?

#2 - 3 extra first? You realize that one of those doesn't come until 2021? That's 5 years away my guy? The team may not even be intact as it is currently constructed by that time...a big man close to Noel? Are you serious?? I don't know where your getting your information from ...but you might want to do some actual research on the season that Noel had last season ....here's a great grantland article on it

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/

Len is about as much of Nerleans Noel as Eddy Curry was "BABY SHAQ" lol

Lastly I'm trying to understand how LOSING out on a prime free agent is somehow being spun as a good thing ...that is amazing to me ...so they strike out on LeBron last year ...they strike out on LMA this year and your telling me that that's good and that's where you'd want to be ...?? I'm sorry man that ...is simply insane to me...no offense


The interesting thing about this is over the past 2 seasons the Suns have actually regressed record wise ...yet I'm being told they have a better future than these other teams?


Interesting.

1. Yep, Wolves I still debate. Towns hasn't played a game, Lavine really wasn't great, and Wiggins is looking good.

2. Len put up similar defensive numbers to Noel, and is better offensively, so don't know where you're going there.

3. Okafor has yet to play a game.

4. Eric Bledsoe is somewhere in the 5-10 range.

5. Noel vs. Len, where to begin (and saying this I like Noel too)...
RPM: Noel is a -1.5, Len a -.74, so Len wins. Also, he wins in RAPM.

Rim Protection: Len 1.13 points saved/36, Noel 1.51, Noel wins.

Box Scores:
http://bkref.com/tiny/W9NgM

Len wins in most offensive metrics, Noel defensive. Its not far off at all.

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

6. They regressed record wise because they decided to keep the young core intact and trade an older PG for 2 future firsts.

7. Why does it matter when a pick is conveyed? Its an asset, used as such. If I put money into a retirement fund, its still money, its still mine. It doesn't "not count" because its further in the future.

8. As a fan, I'd be miserable as a Sixers fan right now and this is even with the understanding of their logic. The Suns have a pretty talented young core. The Sixers have the pieces to potentially someday get one.

Thanks for being the voice of reason backing us up, Bondom. Posters on the General Board like JDizzel seem to spew their irrational vitriol to sh*t on all things Suns backed up wit porous argumentation as seen above. Still LOLing at that remark comparing Len to Eddy Freakin Curry and Noel to a prime Shaq

Unfortunately your reading comprehension failed you

[bondom34]

1. Yep, Wolves I still debate. Towns hasn't played a game, Lavine really wasn't great, and Wiggins is looking good.

2. Len put up similar defensive numbers to Noel, and is better offensively, so don't know where you're going there.

3. Okafor has yet to play a game.

4. Eric Bledsoe is somewhere in the 5-10 range.

5. Noel vs. Len, where to begin (and saying this I like Noel too)...
RPM: Noel is a -1.5, Len a -.74, so Len wins. Also, he wins in RAPM.

Rim Protection: Len 1.13 points saved/36, Noel 1.51, Noel wins.

Box Scores:
http://bkref.com/tiny/W9NgM

Len wins in most offensive metrics, Noel defensive. Its not far off at all.

5. Being considered by a prime free agent is a good thing. I can't remember Philly having that happen, and don't see it happening soon.

6. They regressed record wise because they decided to keep the young core intact and trade an older PG for 2 future firsts.

7. Why does it matter when a pick is conveyed? Its an asset, used as such. If I put money into a retirement fund, its still money, its still mine. It doesn't "not count" because its further in the future.

8. As a fan, I'd be miserable as a Sixers fan right now and this is even with the understanding of their logic. The Suns have a pretty talented young core. The Sixers have the pieces to potentially someday get one.

1.We're projecting in this thread obviously ....maybe you think KAT will be a bust ..idk ...I certainly feel confident projecting him to be a productive player in the leauge ...definitely as productive as any big on the Suns roster


2.These are not similar stats ....

Nerlens Noel: top 10 in blocks and steals, 5% block percentage, 2.9% steal percentage, DWS of 4.2, DBPM of 4.5

Alex Len: 5.3 block percentage, 1.1% steal percentage, DWS of 2.1, DBPM of 2.3

I don't know what your talking about but if you consider that to be "similar" defensive impact ...more power to you ...


Additionally on offense outside of Lens shooting % and Noel's assist rate ... I don't really see a resounding difference ...and mind you we're evaluating a rookie and a second year players seasons ...I don't believe Noel will shoot 45% again as he showed post all star break posting

13/10/2 on 53% TS

3.The "he has not played a game yet" point will end in October ....so hold on to it while you can ..lol

4.

-CP3
-Westbrook
-Wall
-Conley
-Curry
-Irving
-Dragic
-Lillard
-Lowry
-Teague

Sooooooooooo Bledsoe is better than which one of these guys again?

5. The Suns whiffed on their two big dog targets Two seasons in a row and yet again your trying to sell me on how that's a good thing? Lol ....it just a bizarre ....funny enough the guy that they did sign is going to stifle the minutes that their young so called talented big needs ...yet again ...to you.... This is a "good thing"

6.Hmmmm they regressed because they traded their PG ....yet I'm pretty sure they brought in a guy to replace him .....who looked terrible while there might I add ...yet ....I'm suppose to believe this team is on the uptick.........right


7. What do you mean why does it matter? It matters because (unless traded) that picks relevancy to this current teams rebuild has no tangible affect being that far out ... The whole argument that Suns fans have tried to make is that in the now they are in a better spot than the sixers ...yet your using an asset that can't be collected upon until 5 years from now to prove that point?? That is ridiculously contradictory to the whole foundation of the Suns fans argument.... If you want to talk about "future picks" there is no team in the NBA with more of those assets than the 6ers ...point blank


8.As a fan I'd be missable watching my team not make the playoffs for 5 straight years with no end in sight ...the Suns "talented young core" won them all of 39 games next year ...if there's some sort of redeemable value in that to Suns fans more power to them

1. I think so too, but they've still got 2 very good core players maybe 3 if Rubio counts. Wiggins/KAT/Rubio? Could be good, maybe not, though more likely they are.

2. Again, offense is half the game. I never said what you're saying I did. I said overall they've shown similar production. Offense + defense.

3. Well, Phoenix has a pretty good looking rookie too, so there's that as well.

4. I take CP3, Curry, Westbrook, Irving, Wall all over him for sure. He's close to Lillard/Conley/Lowry/Teague/Dragic. One of the best defensive PGs in the game and a crazy athlete, doesn't put up eye popping box score stats but is capable of it at times, he's certainly in the mix.

5. They got Chandler? And what targets did Philly whiff on? They were a bit worse off huh?

6. Knight got hurt....though it doesn't seem you paid much actual attention to the Suns, you just enjoy critiquing them.

7. Future picks can still be used as current currency. Hence "why does it matter". Those picks are just as valuable as any other, as you said they can be traded. You can use that asset before 5 years from now.

8. As a fan I'd be miserable watching a team with very little cohesiveness win 25 games a year and prior to that be a treadmill level team the years before.

[bondom34]

The verge of contention?


Huh??


Contending for what? They haven't made the playoffs in 5 years guy

They've barely missed the playoffs. The Sixers barely won 20 games.

I'll ask again since you seem to have either missed or avoided my question ...


Contending for what? They haven't made the playoffs in 5 years and finished 5 or 6 games out of the playoff race ...

OK. This is a simple point that honestly can't even get over your head...

The Suns, by virtue of winning, having a young roster, cap space, and assets, can be seen by free agents as somewhere to be considered to go to. The Sixers last major signing was in 2008. The Suns just signed Tyson Chandler and nearly got Aldridge (they didn't get him, but was he giving Philly a meeting I missed?). You add one top free agent to that team and they're likely top 4 in the west. That's a contender. Philly won't be able to do that because no free agent will even look at them until they're respectable which is at least 3 years off. So you're hoping to get a few good young players good enough to get a free agent to go there in 3 years. The Suns are through the first part, on to the second.