Do you think the Raps are going to hedge more on D?

[vini_vidi_vici]

I read the quotes about adjusting to JV, and making him a more focal point of the offense. But I think with the additions youre likely to see more of the same.

So lets start with this. Hedgehogs: The NBA’s Best Hedging Screen Defenders

Teams like the Rockets, Warriors, and 76ers have begun to employ a switch-heavy defensive scheme when defending screens. While it may be true that these aggressive, switching defenses are the future of the NBA, there are a number of teams and players that have been very successful at defending screens while hedging at a high rate rather than switching.

Note: All stats assume a minimum of 1,000 total screens defended.

PATRICK PATTERSON: 5.1 POINTS ALLOWED PER 100 SCREENS, 45.5 HEDGE%

Among all qualifying players, Patterson has, by far, the highest Hedge%, a full 6.8 percentage points ahead of second place. Patterson’s 5.1 Points Allowed per 100 Screens puts him fourth best in the league this season. While an average defender in the aggregate (0.99 Points Allowed per Shot), Patrick is quick on his feet and does a great job cutting off players attempting to drive to the rim.

AMIR JOHNSON: 5.1 POINTS ALLOWED PER 100 SCREENS, 31.0 HEDGE%

Patrick’s frontcourt teammate in Toronto reveals a teamwide commitment to a hedge-centered screen defense. Dwane Casey has a roster full of nimble frontcourt players with above-average lateral quickness. The Raptors led the league in team Hedge% at 23.4 percent. Amir is, similarly to Patterson, an average overall defender that excels at limiting guards from turning corners, forcing them into subpar shots.

LUIS SCOLA: 6.0 POINTS ALLOWED PER 100 SCREENS, 35.2 HEDGE%

The Pacers hedge on 12.6 percent of their shots, making Scola stick out on their roster (Luis hedges nearly 15 percent more than the next man on the roster, Chris Copeland). Scola lacks the ability to switch without creating mismatches on the floor and struggles when simply dropping zone because he doesn’t have the athleticism or the lateral quickness necessary to protect the rim. This makes hedging hard a necessary defensive strategy for the veteran Argentinian. On such plays, Scola can surprise quicker guards with his aggressiveness and his quick hands as they try to turn the corner.

Committing to hedging can decrease an individual player’s number of points allowed on any particular screen but can be detrimental to overall team defense if the rest of the roster does not rotate effectively when the ball gets reversed. Toronto, for example, is a below-average defensive squad even though they have two frontcourt players that rank highly in screen defense. It may be the case that the emerging positionless NBA will make switching on screens a more popular and effective strategy, but the players above demonstrate that successful screening can be done by hedging hard and preventing the initial drive from guards.

So with presumably Scola getting some burn at PF/C and PP getting an increased workload, we could see alot of the same as AJ/PP duo of years past. And then theres DMC who could get alot of burn at the 3-4.

Among the 240 players who defended at least 100 on-ball screens in 2014-2015, Carroll ranked 33rd in Hedge% (24.18). His tendency to hedge often forced opposing ball handlers into hesitating momentarily before reacting, which was invaluable for an Atlanta team that finished the year with the league’s seventh-best defense. Having the quickness and defensive awareness to recover following a hedge allowed Carroll to lock down an opponent’s top perimeter threat and stifle on-ball action all at once. Carroll’s hedging abilities fit exactly with the Raptors’ defensive scheme, as they led the entire league last season in team Hedge% (26.03).

Theres alot more good stuff about the DMC signing using Vantage stats, but id rather keep it to the D principles in general. So even though its been said we are going to accentuate JVs, do you really think they have done so in a way to help? I mean DMCs weakness is his Keep-in-front rate and Contest rate, so that doesnt bode well if were trying to stop initial penetration right?

I guess im just skeptical how this is all going to work, what say you??

[Lord Eder]

I didn't really get the quotes stating the defence was going to change with JV on the floor in the first place. It's not like he ever hedged on screens anyway. He would always drop back.

What I'm guessing from the quotes is that they'll implement freezing out the screener more often when he is on the floor. But I can't see a complete overhaul of the system.

Even with the loss of Amir, you still have the guys in the front court able to carry out that defensive principal, as you've stated. Which is another reason I don't particularly understand everyone's issue with Patterson starting if we go into the season with him at the 4. He's one of the most active defensive players I've seen at his position. Him and Amir were fantastic at hedging and being agile enough to recover. They were our best front court together, and if Scola can provide what Patterson did normally I believe Patterson can take over the Amir role in the defensive scheme. He's not a great rebounder is really the only legitimate qualm I could see with Patterson at the 4.

[vini_vidi_vici]

I didn't really get the quotes stating the defence was going to change with JV on the floor in the first place. It's not like he ever hedged on screens anyway. He would always drop back.

What I'm guessing from the quotes is that they'll implement freezing out the screener more often when he is on the floor. But I can't see a complete overhaul of the system.

Even with the loss of Amir, you still have the guys in the front court able to carry out that defensive principal, as you've stated. Which is another reason I don't particularly understand everyone's issue with Patterson starting if we go into the season with him at the 4. He's one of the most active defensive players I've seen at his position. Him and Amir were fantastic at hedging and being agile enough to recover. They were our best front court together, and if Scola can provide what Patterson did normally I believe Patterson can take over the Amir role in the defensive scheme. He's not a great rebounder is really the only legitimate qualm I could see with Patterson at the 4.

Sorry perhaps I wasnt clear.

Im saying, it seems like were going to hedge at the same rate if not more, despite leading the league. There was a quote by MU earlier this summer where he mentioned the team was likely to change the D based on JV, it wasnt specified how or what.

That aside, PP is nowhere near the rim protector or PnR defender Amir is (esp when healthy, he was top 10 in both, 2-3 yrs ago I wrote about it then). I dont have an issue with PP starting just that I think he inhibits the defense purely on replacing a stallwart like Amir. As you mentioned hes not a great rebounder, but either was Amir, so perhaps its a wash and the team will still be a bad rebounding team.

I felt like initially upon the signings youd see a more switching defense (JV aside) more akin to the top defenses (as mentioned in the article). But the more I read/research, I think its likely we see more of the same, and thats what im trying to articulate through this thread. How much change to the philosophy/principles are we really likely to see? Im starting to think, very little despite the MU quote, and based on the personnel attained esp with the bigs (BB aside, who I dont think is likely to see the mins some project).

[Zeno]

Didn't Wright also have a poor keep-in-front rate and it was his ability with screens that made his defence above average. At least that is what I remember reading somewhere on here.

[Lord Eder]

I didn't really get the quotes stating the defence was going to change with JV on the floor in the first place. It's not like he ever hedged on screens anyway. He would always drop back.

What I'm guessing from the quotes is that they'll implement freezing out the screener more often when he is on the floor. But I can't see a complete overhaul of the system.

Even with the loss of Amir, you still have the guys in the front court able to carry out that defensive principal, as you've stated. Which is another reason I don't particularly understand everyone's issue with Patterson starting if we go into the season with him at the 4. He's one of the most active defensive players I've seen at his position. Him and Amir were fantastic at hedging and being agile enough to recover. They were our best front court together, and if Scola can provide what Patterson did normally I believe Patterson can take over the Amir role in the defensive scheme. He's not a great rebounder is really the only legitimate qualm I could see with Patterson at the 4.

Sorry perhaps I wasnt clear.

Im saying, it seems like were going to hedge at the same rate if not more, despite leading the league. There was a quote by MU earlier this summer where he mentioned the team was likely to change the D based on JV, it wasnt specified how or what.

That aside, PP is nowhere near the rim protector or PnR defender Amir is (esp when healthy, he was top 10 in both, 2-3 yrs ago I wrote about it then). I dont have an issue with PP starting just that I think he inhibits the defense purely on replacing a stallwart like Amir. As you mentioned hes not a great rebounder, but either was Amir, so perhaps its a wash and the team will still be a bad rebounding team.

I felt like initially upon the signings youd see a more switching defense (JV aside) more akin to the top defenses (as mentioned in the article). But the more I read/research, I think its likely we see more of the same, and thats what im trying to articulate through this thread. How much change to the philosophy/principles are we really likely to see? Im starting to think, very little despite the MU quote, and based on the personnel attained esp with the bigs (BB aside, who I dont think is likely to see the mins some project).

I don't think we'll see much change in the system either. Like I said, perhaps they'll implement a few things, especially with bringing in Greer from the Bulls, but I can't see the entire philosophy being changed.

I haven't watched enough of Corey Joseph to be able to formulate an opinion, but from what I've heard he's good at guarding PnR from the point guard position, I'm sure having a player like that at the point of attack and being able to get through screens will make a huge difference from Greivis.

I feel as though they'll ICE here and there with JV on the floor. But I'd assume we'll see the same amount of hedging and scrambling as last season.

All they've done this offseason is bring in defensive minded, athletic players... The narrative of the offseason fits the defensive system.

Not to make this a thread about Patterson, but I think Patterson can be the defender that Amir was, or close to it, talking strictly about PnR here, he's got the right tools, physically and mentally. I really am going to miss the Amir/PAtterson front line. But I'm not sure that Amir exists anymore.


Bottom line I don't think we'll see much change in terms of the defense except for effectiveness.

[Johnny Bball]

Nope, because some teams can just put JV in the PNR instead of the PF like Washington did and we are ****. They want to keep JV off the perimeter and drive it outside (said as much) and not steer the PG down the middle, but doubt this means hedging since that means putting him on the perimeter and he's too slow. Probabaly also means we will see lots of PP LS 4th quarters. Or we ICE with JV, or JV and all bigs, but again I don't think JV is quick enough for that.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Didn't Wright also have a poor keep-in-front rate and it was his ability with screens that made his defence above average. At least that is what I remember reading somewhere on here.

Which Wright? Brandan? Sorry im not sure who youre inferring.

I don't think we'll see much change in the system either. Like I said, perhaps they'll implement a few things, especially with bringing in Greer from the Bulls, but I can't see the entire philosophy being changed.

I haven't watched enough of Corey Joseph to be able to formulate an opinion, but from what I've heard he's good at guarding PnR from the point guard position, I'm sure having a player like that at the point of attack and being able to get through screens will make a huge difference from Greivis.

I feel as though they'll ICE here and there with JV on the floor. But I'd assume we'll see the same amount of hedging and scrambling as last season.

All they've done this offseason is bring in defensive minded, athletic players... The narrative of the offseason fits the defensive system.

Not to make this a thread about Patterson, but I think Patterson can be the defender that Amir was, or close to it, talking strictly about PnR here, he's got the right tools, physically and mentally. I really am going to miss the Amir/PAtterson front line. But I'm not sure that Amir exists anymore.


Bottom line I don't think we'll see much change in terms of the defense except for effectiveness.

Let me preface with I think talent changes things, and to your point better defenders should equate to better defense. To me I was more implying the system which you seem to agree, wont be changing much.

CJ was in the 49th percentile guarding PnR Ball handlers, so fairly mediocre. Like you I dont know enough to know what he will provide.

I think thats fair, I disagree about the the PP vs AJ stuff, but it does have merit (esp with Amirs regression last year). Its going to interesting to watch how PP (if he does start and get the bulk of the mins at PF) fares replacing him tho.

[Lord Eder]

I agree with you, that not much should change, if we're looking strictly at the front court guys. Hedging plays to their strengths, as evident by the numbers you posted.

Where I'd be playing devils advocate is by saying its a 2 man defensive assignment really. It comes down to how new guys like Joseph, Delon and Powell are at keeping with the ball handler through screens. If they're effective at it, then the big guarding the screener will have a better opportunity to drop back without being such a liability. You're likely giving up a contested mid range jump shot instead of a point guard driving head on into a back pedalling big.


The difference between having a combo of Lowry and Joseph or Lowry and Wright at the guards versus Lowry and Vasquez or Lowry and Lou or Lou and Vasquez will be what gives us the opportunity to explore other strategies on defending screen action.

If these guys can fight through screens and contain pressure on the ball handler through them, I can see more drop back being implemented.

It'll be nice to have the option at least, keep the offense guessing.

We'll see I guess. Is it October yet?

[Double Helix]

First off, anybody surprised that 2Pat wasn't a league leader in this doesn't watch this team close enough. I had hoped I might find an old post just now where I raved about this aspect of Patterson but gave up quick. I always assumed he was elite at it though so cool to see. The Scola bit is interesting as well.

I think we will change to the Bulls concept most of the time and that Casey will have this in his back pocket in a playoff series as a wrinkle. But it does sound like we're changing. I'll try to find the TSN clip.


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[vini_vidi_vici]

I agree with you, that not much should change, if we're looking strictly at the front court guys. Hedging plays to their strengths, as evident by the numbers you posted.

Where I'd be playing devils advocate is by saying its a 2 man defensive assignment really. It comes down to how new guys like Joseph, Delon and Powell are at keeping with the ball handler through screens. If they're effective at it, then the big guarding the screener will have a better opportunity to drop back without being such a liability. You're likely giving up a contested mid range jump shot instead of a point guard driving head on into a back pedalling big.


The difference between having a combo of Lowry and Joseph or Lowry and Wright at the guards versus Lowry and Vasquez or Lowry and Lou or Lou and Vasquez will be what gives us the opportunity to explore other strategies on defending screen action.

If these guys can fight through screens and contain pressure on the ball handler through them, I can see more drop back being implemented.

It'll be nice to have the option at least, keep the offense guessing.

We'll see I guess. Is it October yet?

I would like to point out, despite the RGM hatred of him, GV was in the 78th percentile guarding PnR Ball Handlers, so it could actually be a drop off.

I dont think youre going to see much better PnR D if teams do as they do and spam the PnR with JV in the mix (esp because of his drop back rate being so high). And consequently, I dont think its going to help the guards deny penetration because its 1v2 on the point of attack. Now thats why I think youre likely to see more of as you said, a PP/LS combo, or DMC/JJ/etc.. in place of LS.

[Courtside]

The article didn't include Jonas, but since the thread is somewhat JV related (he being a key pieve of our frontcourt), is there a way to generate the hedge defence #s for him so we can see how he does by the same set of metrics?

[MixxSRC]

The article didn't include Jonas, but since the thread is somewhat JV related (he being a key pieve of our frontcourt), is there a way to generate the hedge defence #s for him so we can see how he does by the same set of metrics?

no idea about % but

http://www.vantagesports.com/story/VLUauyMAABhrQHtz/square-pegs-round-holes-and-the-raptors-defense

According to Vantage, when defending screens, the Raptors have the third-highest Hedge% in the league at 24.8 percent.

However, despite having such a high Hedge% as a team, Valanciunas has so far hedged on just 1.43 percent of the screens he’s defended this season. To put how low Valanciunas’s number is in context, the second-lowest Hedge% on the Raptors is Tyler Hansbrough’s 18 percent. As a more traditional big man, Jonas is far more comfortable defending near the rim, and he doesn’t really have either the footspeed or the footwork to be able to effectively hedge and subsequently recover onto his man. This means that most of the time, he’ll play more conservatively, dropping back to contain any penetration. While a perfectly acceptable strategy in isolation, this simple adjustment changes the entire defensive ethos of the Raptors when he’s on the court. As one can imagine, this can lead to confusion, and the results are often not pretty.

[Courtside]

Thanks Mixx, that's helpful. He basically never hedges.

That said... even if we had the 3rd highest hedge % in the league, why is that a good thing if we had ended up with the 28th rated defense out of 30? Does Jonas hedging at the same rate as PP or Amir move us to 24th? 19th? 14th? Or were the largest defensive issues elsewhere on the floor?

Several years back, I think when we had VC and Bosh together, we emulated what Dallas was doing in that they switched everything. The thinking is that it was better to have a guard switch onto a big or vice versa, than to hedge and need swing help around, because it meant that someone was always glued to the offensive player and their scoring percentages were lower regardless of who was defending, than when there was moments of the offensive player being open or getting uncontested looks. IIRC, that worked very well, and if teams like GSW, Houston and Philly (who despite their poor record are learning some very good habits on both ends of the floor), why would we want to go against the grain and stick to the hedging mindset that obviously yielded poor results?

[Double Helix]

This is what I was saying in the Greer/Defence-relafed threads. JV's our starter. He plays nearly 30mpg. And yet we had to basically compromise one of the key aspects of Casey's preferred defensive approach when he was out there. I hadn't even considered the confusion that could cause for others on the team but as Courtside just said... It clearly didn't work out.

Chicago's approach let's him hang back a little more by design because he'll receive help clogging the lane on the strong side by design. It's less compromise for him and more about deliberately trying to encourage the ball handler to keep it or find another shooter for a long 2. This should lead to less confusion and scrambling from him and make better use of the athleticism and anticipation of others on the team.


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[Kabookalu]

Scola ranking up there with Amir and Patterson is a huge surprise.

I think that veteran players passing off their skills to younger players gets overrated. Nonetheless I'm hoping that Scola, who's slower and even more unathletic than Jonas, can teach him something here.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Thanks Mixx, that's helpful. He basically never hedges.

That said... even if we had the 3rd highest hedge % in the league, why is that a good thing if we had ended up with the 28th rated defense out of 30? Does Jonas hedging at the same rate as PP or Amir move us to 24th? 19th? 14th? Or were the largest defensive issues elsewhere on the floor?

Several years back, I think when we had VC and Bosh together, we emulated what Dallas was doing in that they switched everything. The thinking is that it was better to have a guard switch onto a big or vice versa, than to hedge and need swing help around, because it meant that someone was always glued to the offensive player and their scoring percentages were lower regardless of who was defending, than when there was moments of the offensive player being open or getting uncontested looks. IIRC, that worked very well, and if teams like GSW, Houston and Philly (who despite their poor record are learning some very good habits on both ends of the floor), why would we want to go against the grain and stick to the hedging mindset that obviously yielded poor results?

This is exactly why im asking do you think we will hedge more, because despite what MU said in isolation about one player, and the boards seemingly focused on that one comment (as the posters tend to do, AB subbed in for defense/REB, JV beng asked to bulk up, etc..), how much merit does it have considering the personnel.

Ppl seem to think because they are asking JV to drop back more, for which he already dropped back a tonne (contrary to MUs point of hedging less, less than 1.34%??) its going to drastically change our defense. Id argue it wont, and with the guys brought in LS/DMC, it seems to indicate were doubling down on this, dependent on how much you think PP/LS/DMC are going to play, im willing to bet all 3 play more than yrs past (again unless the Raps get a TT or something).

I dont think JV is going to hedge more in general terms, but how much less than 1.43% can he? I mean it would seem anecdotally you would see more just because the number is so low, thus the query. And if ppl seem to think (as I do, and many others) JV is the problem defensively in the PnR, does asking JV to do more of what hes doing consequently a good thing too?? (sorry for the Qs, but I honestly dont know, thus why I broached the discussion).

Initially when I saw the signing and MU (?, might have been DC) mention the JV stuff, I felt it would be more heavily switching on the perimeter, and funneling guys to the sidelines for the rim protection of JV. The problem is then why add guys who excel in those areas (hedging) and promote them (along with PP) as our options at the 4? and why not get better personnel to suit the needs of JV?? (for example, stronger keep in front % guys, as its DMCs weakness for example).

I also thought initially we would adopt a more switching D with DMC at the 4 and guys 1-4 able to switch match ups, sort of like a GSW hybrid (I mentioned this in the Meet Demarre Carroll thread I made). Again the more I read/research I dont think it to be true.

Id be willing to bet that the actually substance of the changes, isnt going to be much and thats why I brought up the thread, Greer signing/one MU comment aside. Again its tough to know until we get some games in and a full training camp. I will say regarding your first point, DC had a group of fairly mediocre defenders (outside Amir) in the top 10 the year prior using the same defensive principles, so thats why I think they were getting guys who catered to that virtue and DCs system.

To quote another PnR D article by Vantage, check it out btw..

Different teams apply different schemes in a variety of scenarios. That much is obvious. Labeling any one scheme better or worse than another is a more complex proposition that requires further analysis in team-specific deep dives.

While there is a slight overall correlation between Drop% and defensive rating, there is no indication of a significant causal relationship. The group of Moderates indicates how crucial execution is. Clearly, there are a series of other factors that are determinative of a quality NBA defense.

The strategy that a team chooses to implement is influenced by a series of contextual issues: personnel, opponent, time, and score, as well as coaching and managerial preferences.

Context is crucial. Vacuums do not exist in the NBA. How should your team defend on-ball screens? The answer might be more complicated than you think.

Which is why I broached the subject, im not unequivocally we say one is better than the other, just that personnel atleast statistically seems to suit this hedging style, 1 or 2 players (JV and possibly BB, altho im not sure how BB fares hedging) aside. The coaching emphasized something similar the last 2 years. The management seemed to get players of this ilk (as I outlined), similar to my belief in the issues defensively heading into the year last year, and how that came to fruition (changing a 3+D 6th man/etc.. for LW/etc..). Lets not forget, the 4 yrs prior to GSW, coach Spo promoted a heavy blitzing D and it won him 2 championships and 4 appearances in the finals (yes I know talent wins, as it did with GSW, just saying anecdotally).

Ill be at work most of the day, im extremely tired so hopefully that rant made sense in the direction of what I wanted the thread. Ill probably be gone until the weekend but look forward to reading some response, altho my thread tend to die off quick as im a pariah around these parts and spur more complaints than actually dialogue hah. Take care all.

[Double Helix]

Thanks Mixx, that's helpful. He basically never hedges.

That said... even if we had the 3rd highest hedge % in the league, why is that a good thing if we had ended up with the 28th rated defense out of 30? Does Jonas hedging at the same rate as PP or Amir move us to 24th? 19th? 14th? Or were the largest defensive issues elsewhere on the floor?

Several years back, I think when we had VC and Bosh together, we emulated what Dallas was doing in that they switched everything. The thinking is that it was better to have a guard switch onto a big or vice versa, than to hedge and need swing help around, because it meant that someone was always glued to the offensive player and their scoring percentages were lower regardless of who was defending, than when there was moments of the offensive player being open or getting uncontested looks. IIRC, that worked very well, and if teams like GSW, Houston and Philly (who despite their poor record are learning some very good habits on both ends of the floor), why would we want to go against the grain and stick to the hedging mindset that obviously yielded poor results?

This is exactly why im asking do you think we will hedge more, because despite what MU said in isolation about one player, and the boards seemingly focused on that one comment (as the posters tend to do, AB subbed in for defense/REB, JV beng asked to bulk up, etc..), how much merit does it have considering the personnel.

Ppl seem to think because they are asking JV to drop back more, for which he already dropped back a tonne (contrary to MUs point of hedging less, less than 1.34%??) its going to drastically change our defense. Id argue it wont, and with the guys brought in LS/DMC, it seems to indicate were doubling down on this, dependent on how much you think PP/LS/DMC are going to play, im willing to bet all 3 play more than yrs past (again unless the Raps get a TT or something).

I dont think JV is going to hedge more in general terms, but how much less than 1.43% can he? I mean it would seem anecdotally you would see more just because the number is so low, thus the query. And if ppl seem to think (as I do, and many others) JV is the problem defensively in the PnR, does asking JV to do more of what hes doing consequently a good thing too?? (sorry for the Qs, but I honestly dont know, thus why I broached the discussion).

Initially when I saw the signing and MU (?, might have been DC) mention the JV stuff, I felt it would be more heavily switching on the perimeter, and funneling guys to the sidelines for the rim protection of JV. The problem is then why add guys who excel in those areas (hedging) and promote them (along with PP) as our options at the 4? and why not get better personnel to suit the needs of JV?? (for example, stronger keep in front % guys, as its DMCs weakness for example).

I also thought initially we would adopt a more switching D with DMC at the 4 and guys 1-4 able to switch match ups, sort of like a GSW hybrid (I mentioned this in the Meet Demarre Carroll thread I made). Again the more I read/research I dont think it to be true.

Id be willing to bet that the actually substance of the changes, isnt going to be much and thats why I brought up the thread, Greer signing/one MU comment aside. Again its tough to know until we get some games in and a full training camp. I will say regarding your first point, DC had a group of fairly mediocre defenders (outside Amir) in the top 10 the year prior using the same defensive principles, so thats why I think they were getting guys who catered to that virtue and DCs system.

To quote another PnR D article by Vantage, check it out btw..

Different teams apply different schemes in a variety of scenarios. That much is obvious. Labeling any one scheme better or worse than another is a more complex proposition that requires further analysis in team-specific deep dives.

While there is a slight overall correlation between Drop% and defensive rating, there is no indication of a significant causal relationship. The group of Moderates indicates how crucial execution is. Clearly, there are a series of other factors that are determinative of a quality NBA defense.

The strategy that a team chooses to implement is influenced by a series of contextual issues: personnel, opponent, time, and score, as well as coaching and managerial preferences.

Context is crucial. Vacuums do not exist in the NBA. How should your team defend on-ball screens? The answer might be more complicated than you think.

Which is why I broached the subject, im not unequivocally we say one is better than the other, just that personnel atleast statistically seems to suit this hedging style, 1 or 2 players (JV and possibly BB, altho im not sure how BB fares hedging) aside. The coaching emphasized something similar the last 2 years. The management seemed to get players of this ilk (as I outlined), similar to my belief in the issues defensively heading into the year last year, and how that came to fruition (changing a 3+D 6th man/etc.. for LW/etc..). Lets not forget, the 4 yrs prior to GSW, coach Spo promoted a heavy blitzing D and it won him 2 championships and 4 appearances in the finals (yes I know talent wins, as it did with GSW, just saying anecdotally).

Ill be at work most of the day, im extremely tired so hopefully that rant made sense in the direction of what I wanted the thread. Ill probably be gone until the weekend but look forward to reading some response, altho my thread tend to die off quick as im a pariah around these parts and spur more complaints than actually dialogue hah. Take care all.

It's actually because of the current compromise to Casey's scheme that we've implemented for JV which doesn't have him hedging that I suspect this Greer hire will bring forth a bigger change overall. Masai was asked by Brent Berry about what the Raptors were going to do to try and get JV to play more late into games. That's when Masai responded that they intended to bring in new schemes and push the ball away from the centre with less hedging. He was responding to this specifically for JV but it could just as easily be a communication issue where Masai meant it beyond JV personally. Greer was formally announced like a week after as Casey's defensive coordinator by Woj. I mean, what's more likely? That Masai was unaware that JV wasn't hedging? Or, that he and Casey talked about the compromise impacting the approach and causing confusion and coming up with a new approach while bringing in the perfect guy to help implement that new approach? I believe it's the latter.

It's possible we go with a several different schemes depending on who is out there and what the opposition is doing. Veteran teams can get a little more mix and match and with 2 playoff rounds under our belt and some playoff experience for the guys we've brought in I'm hoping they're capable of a few different approaches. There's usually an adjustment to be made in any series beyond substitutions so the more versatile this group becomes defensively the better equipped we will be to adapt if one approach seems like it will work better than another. Casey said on TSN radio that he actually likes 2Pat in that bench unit and that he sees James Johnson playing more minutes at the 4. Hard to imagine Scola and Valanciunas starting together so if 2Pat is kept in his current role then JJ may get some starts. If not, 2Pat has the speed to thrive in either scheme. Maybe a bench unit plays closer to our current style but our starters more regularly take on more of the Bulls approach? Lots of questions. Hopefully we get answers soon and good results regardless!

[ATLTimekeeper]

I thought Ujiri said we would employ ICE. I didn't listen to the interview, though, that's just what the OP said in that thread. I'm sure Casey will continue to hedge his other bigs a fair amount.

[Double Helix]

I thought Ujiri said we would employ ICE. I didn't listen to the interview, though, that's just what the OP said in that thread. I'm sure Casey will continue to hedge his other bigs a fair amount.

This is the exact quote:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/blakemurphyodc/status/619649413711921152[/tweet]

This was in response to a question about what the Raptors would do differently to ensure that JV can get more 4th quarter minutes. Greer was then announced officially by Woj as the new architect of the team's defence. Connecting the dots and considering that Masai hasn't always been the strongest communicator in English it seems more likely to me that we will be implementing the Bulls approach on a more regular basis overall because he had to know that Valanciunas didn't allow Casey's preferred approach to work as well because of the compromise was given for JV not to hedge. That scheme with the JV compromise obviously didn't work out particularly well and was exploited almost ruthlessly by the Wizards in the pick and roll. Valanciunas is more important to the team than that scheme in particular so it seems like they're aiming to implement some new schemes that are better suited to his strengths as part of the design.






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[Shabazz]

I'd say it's pretty clear the Raptors are acquiring players who are more adept at hedging. This is what Dwane Casey's system calls for, and there's a precedent that this defence can work successfully. This roster seems a lot better defensively than the one constructed two years ago, and that was a top-10 defence. My concern isn't with the system itself, but instead the perceived lack of adaptability that is needed to succeed.

You can hedge all you want throughout an 82-game season, but come playoffs, it's all about strategy and versatility. You need players who can do multiple things, and adapt to changing game plans from day to day, practice to practice, session to session. That means, at the very least, a roster of players who can play solid on-ball defence, and who have above average basketball IQ. Thankfully, this current team looks to be much more adept at overall defence. However, my main concern (especially come playoff time), is when the opponent figures out a counter to the Raptors' hedging ways, can the Raptors adapt? If the defensive system required a couple of wrinkles, can the players execute these changes? I'm a little more confident in this current group than the one that got swept by the Wizards.