Zach Lowe article on Suns and Sixers rebuild going in different directions

[HartfordWhalers]

Is that before of after the TV money they get from the NBA?

The national money that everyone in the league gets an equal amount of? Or the local money that is shared unequally?

Divorcing an NBA team from the national contract doesn't make sense, especially as its a multi-year contract which includes years that teams are good and years that they are bad. And the local revenue has been discussed, with the Sixers getting none of any other teams deals.

Altogether the team at last estimate made more than over half the league.

Divorcing it from the shared money makes perfect sense, because the shared money is what makes it not act like a normal market.

Normal market forces don't apply at all with sports leagues. If a team does well, they are not allowed to expand. Likewise if a team loses money for 10 years, they are not allowed to shut down and go out of business. My point was to not compare NBA teams with any free market principles.

Well, then you should have a stern word with yourself:

in a normal market the Sixers would go out of business with their approach.

Sixers were more profitable than most teams in the league. Your first comment made no sense.

[perezident]

Sixers organization is so bad right now. No free agent wants to even fly over that city to get to their destination....hell...even draftees are pissed to be going there. Every year bragging about tanking and still missing on talent so high in the draft year in and out.

The Embid thing was so unfortunate. Sixers can't catch a break. Meanwhile Hinikie is being praised for what? Nabbing high lottery picks year after year? Sooner or later they will have to cash in on those young studs and try to use them as trade bait and mirror what Celtics did in 07.

But, things are awful down in Philly basketball wise

You got to love the irony of a Kings fan talking about free agents not wanting to play in Philly.

Rondo was a free agent....an All star tripple double machine

But the real irony is Philly fans bashing the Kings and their already broken glass house can't take any more stones

[bwgood77]

The national money that everyone in the league gets an equal amount of? Or the local money that is shared unequally?

Divorcing an NBA team from the national contract doesn't make sense, especially as its a multi-year contract which includes years that teams are good and years that they are bad. And the local revenue has been discussed, with the Sixers getting none of any other teams deals.

Altogether the team at last estimate made more than over half the league.

Divorcing it from the shared money makes perfect sense, because the shared money is what makes it not act like a normal market.

Normal market forces don't apply at all with sports leagues. If a team does well, they are not allowed to expand. Likewise if a team loses money for 10 years, they are not allowed to shut down and go out of business. My point was to not compare NBA teams with any free market principles.

Well, then you should have a stern word with yourself:

in a normal market the Sixers would go out of business with their approach.

Sixers were more profitable than most teams in the league. Your first comment made no sense.

He said normal market. Any company trying to be bad would go out of business. You know it.

The Sixers as of late (for fun...I saw someone post it in the Suns forum as a joke about pessimists, so I'm not trying to get a rise).

[basketbrawler]

Bleh, its all about player progress. If Okafor turns out to be a stud, Noel continues to develop, they add another top 3 talent next year, Stauskas looks decent & Saric comes over next year & looks good there is no reason why a big name FA wouldn't consider coming to Philly.

Thats the problem with tanking

There are too many 'what ifs'

[HartfordWhalers]

Divorcing it from the shared money makes perfect sense, because the shared money is what makes it not act like a normal market.

Normal market forces don't apply at all with sports leagues. If a team does well, they are not allowed to expand. Likewise if a team loses money for 10 years, they are not allowed to shut down and go out of business. My point was to not compare NBA teams with any free market principles.

Well, then you should have a stern word with yourself:

in a normal market the Sixers would go out of business with their approach.

Sixers were more profitable than most teams in the league. Your first comment made no sense.

He said normal market. Any company trying to be bad would go out of business. You know it.

The Sixers as of late (for fun...I saw someone post it in the Suns forum as a joke about pessimists, so I'm not trying to get a rise).

Sixers aren't trying to be be bad. But being the low quality team is just where they have found the best opportunity to get successful and to make more money. Profits are estimated to be higher than when the team won 15 more games, and higher than most teams winning 15 more games.

Companies often choose not to put out the most expensive 'quality' product possible and instead choose to maximize profits. In this example the Sixers are being more normal market than most teams.

[BullyKing]

Sixers organization is so bad right now. No free agent wants to even fly over that city to get to their destination....hell...even draftees are pissed to be going there. Every year bragging about tanking and still missing on talent so high in the draft year in and out.

The Embid thing was so unfortunate. Sixers can't catch a break. Meanwhile Hinikie is being praised for what? Nabbing high lottery picks year after year? Sooner or later they will have to cash in on those young studs and try to use them as trade bait and mirror what Celtics did in 07.

But, things are awful down in Philly basketball wise

You got to love the irony of a Kings fan talking about free agents not wanting to play in Philly.

Rondo was a free agent....an All star tripple double machine

But the real irony is Philly fans bashing the Kings and their already broken glass house can't take any more stones

Sorry, didn't realize we were pretending this was 2010. Congrats on beating out CSKA Moscow for Rondo's services.

[wickedwrister]

Is that before of after the TV money they get from the NBA?

The national money that everyone in the league gets an equal amount of? Or the local money that is shared unequally?

Divorcing an NBA team from the national contract doesn't make sense, especially as its a multi-year contract which includes years that teams are good and years that they are bad. And the local revenue has been discussed, with the Sixers getting none of any other teams deals.

Altogether the team at last estimate made more than over half the league.

Divorcing it from the shared money makes perfect sense, because the shared money is what makes it not act like a normal market.

Normal market forces don't apply at all with sports leagues. If a team does well, they are not allowed to expand. Likewise if a team loses money for 10 years, they are not allowed to shut down and go out of business. My point was to not compare NBA teams with any free market principles.

it is a completely different market and in a different market the Sixers likely don't go about things this way. That being said they knew that before choosing to go down this path.

[bwgood77]

Well, then you should have a stern word with yourself:





Sixers were more profitable than most teams in the league. Your first comment made no sense.

He said normal market. Any company trying to be bad would go out of business. You know it.

The Sixers as of late (for fun...I saw someone post it in the Suns forum as a joke about pessimists, so I'm not trying to get a rise).

Sixers aren't trying to be be bad. But being the low quality team is just where they have found the best opportunity to get successful and to make more money. Profits are estimated to be higher than when the team won 15 more games, and higher than most teams winning 15 more games.

Companies often choose not to put out the most expensive 'quality' product possible and instead choose to maximize profits. In this example the Sixers are being more normal market than most teams.

OK, so I will take you for your word, being a Sixers fan that they are trying to be good right now. I understand that the Sixers approach nets them more money. Yes, some companies put out cheap stuff in hopes for a profit. I don't like to buy that stuff though.

[HartfordWhalers]

He said normal market. Any company trying to be bad would go out of business. You know it.

The Sixers as of late (for fun...I saw someone post it in the Suns forum as a joke about pessimists, so I'm not trying to get a rise).

Sixers aren't trying to be be bad. But being the low quality team is just where they have found the best opportunity to get successful and to make more money. Profits are estimated to be higher than when the team won 15 more games, and higher than most teams winning 15 more games.

Companies often choose not to put out the most expensive 'quality' product possible and instead choose to maximize profits. In this example the Sixers are being more normal market than most teams.

OK, so I will take you for your word, being a Sixers fan that they are trying to be good right now. I understand that the Sixers approach nets them more money. Yes, some companies put out cheap stuff in hopes for a profit. I don't like to buy that stuff though.

I wouldn't say they are trying to be good right now either at all. That is definitely not what my take on what they are doing, or what the team has said.

By their words, the team's goal is to get to great (a place past good). And they are willing to be patient to get there, and be bad instead of decent in the mean time if they think it helps the chances. But, the goal is definitely not to be bad.

[bwgood77]

Sixers aren't trying to be be bad. But being the low quality team is just where they have found the best opportunity to get successful and to make more money. Profits are estimated to be higher than when the team won 15 more games, and higher than most teams winning 15 more games.

Companies often choose not to put out the most expensive 'quality' product possible and instead choose to maximize profits. In this example the Sixers are being more normal market than most teams.

OK, so I will take you for your word, being a Sixers fan that they are trying to be good right now. I understand that the Sixers approach nets them more money. Yes, some companies put out cheap stuff in hopes for a profit. I don't like to buy that stuff though.

I wouldn't say they are trying to be good right now either at all. That is definitely not what my take on what they are doing, or what the team has said.

By their words, the team's goal is to get to great (a place past good). And they are willing to be patient to get there, and be bad instead of decent in the mean time if they think it helps the chances. But, the goal is definitely not to be bad.

OK, well that is my thought as well...maybe I misunderstood something earlier. My apologies.

[BullyKing]

Bleh, its all about player progress. If Okafor turns out to be a stud, Noel continues to develop, they add another top 3 talent next year, Stauskas looks decent & Saric comes over next year & looks good there is no reason why a big name FA wouldn't consider coming to Philly.

Thats the problem with tanking

There are too many 'what ifs'

As opposed to all of those other guaranteed options for building a winner.

[Mik317]

There is no one way to do things. The Suns Method could in time work. The Sixers Method in time could work Both Methods however are right for their own teams. The Sixers could not do what the Suns are doing pre Hinkie and currently...it is not right for the longterm. The Suns probably cannot afford to punt seasons away at this point and since they have (or had) actual talent worth keeping, it is in their best interest to keep slugging in away.

That is it in a nutshell. We had no assets pre Hinkie..in fact we owed two teams picks. The Bynum trade moida'd the Franchise and left them with Jrue Holiday and some dudes. Got great value for Jrue (too great thanks to sketchy stuff), Good Value for Thad, and IMO meh value for Hawes and Turner. And in the end got one of our picks back (using the pick Jrue got us) and just some seconds to Boston. And while I am ready to "get back on the treadmill" personally, the team is still at this point better off than we were pre Hinkie. So Tanking has "worked out" in a sense for us.

However it is not a feasible thing for every franchise. Anyone who acts like it is , is "that guy"...no one wants to be "that guy"

[Sixerscan]

Divorcing it from the shared money makes perfect sense, because the shared money is what makes it not act like a normal market.

Normal market forces don't apply at all with sports leagues. If a team does well, they are not allowed to expand. Likewise if a team loses money for 10 years, they are not allowed to shut down and go out of business. My point was to not compare NBA teams with any free market principles.

Well, then you should have a stern word with yourself:

in a normal market the Sixers would go out of business with their approach.

Sixers were more profitable than most teams in the league. Your first comment made no sense.

He said normal market. Any company trying to be bad would go out of business. You know it.

The Sixers as of late (for fun...I saw someone post it in the Suns forum as a joke about pessimists, so I'm not trying to get a rise).

I don't even know what "be bad" would mean in any other industry through. You're conflating wins v. losses and revenue v. cost. There are plenty of companies that provide inferior products but still manage to be successful by keeping costs low.

Very ironic that you used a treadmill gif though.

And still, this is all going away from the question I asked. In a market involving 30 teams trying to get players, why would any of the other 29 teams want the Sixers to outbid them on free agents?

[Sixerscan]

There is no one way to do things. The Suns Method could in time work. The Sixers Method in time could work Both Methods however are right for their own teams. The Sixers could not do what the Suns are doing pre Hinkie and currently...it is not right for the longterm. The Suns probably cannot afford to punt seasons away at this point and since they have (or had) actual talent worth keeping, it is in their best interest to keep slugging in away.

That is it in a nutshell. We had no assets pre Hinkie..in fact we owed two teams picks. The Bynum trade moida'd the Franchise and left them with Jrue Holiday and some dudes. Got great value for Jrue (too great thanks to sketchy stuff), Good Value for Thad, and IMO meh value for Hawes and Turner. And in the end got one of our picks back (using the pick Jrue got us) and just some seconds to Boston. And while I am ready to "get back on the treadmill" personally, the team is still at this point better off than we were pre Hinkie. So Tanking has "worked out" in a sense for us.

However it is not a feasible thing for every franchise. Anyone who acts like it is , is "that guy"...no one wants to be "that guy"

I have no issue with the Suns method. I think anyone that thinks there's a magic bullet to succeed in the NBA outside of having Michael Jordan is an idiot.

[bwgood77]

Well, then you should have a stern word with yourself:





Sixers were more profitable than most teams in the league. Your first comment made no sense.

He said normal market. Any company trying to be bad would go out of business. You know it.

The Sixers as of late (for fun...I saw someone post it in the Suns forum as a joke about pessimists, so I'm not trying to get a rise).

I don't even know what "be bad" would mean in any other industry through. You're conflating wins v. losses and revenue v. cost. There are plenty of companies that provide inferior products but still manage to be successful by keeping costs low.

Very ironic that you used a treadmill gif though.

And still, this is all going away from the question I asked. In a market involving 30 teams trying to get players, why would any of the other 29 teams want the Sixers to outbid them on free agents?

Well I never mentioned they would.

[76ciology]

Which one has a higher success rate to land a superstar? A small market team stealing a superstar via FA or a top 3 pick?

[Prokorov]

The 76ers were a solid team with Jrue Holiday - Iggy - Turner - Thad Young, yeah, could we make the playoffs, and maybe win a round? Sure, who gives a flying fk, that is not the point of building a team. The point is to build a finals contending team. I don't care if this 76ers rebuild takes 5+ years, which in undoubtedly will, because if it works out we will see progress during those 5 years. Okafor could end up winning ROY, we could get a possible franchise player in the 2016 draft.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. If I was given the ability to be the GM of any team in the league right now, the 76ers, Bucks, T'Wolves would be in my top 10 choices because of their potential down the line here.

the thing is okafor could turn into a top 10 player and philly still not be a great team. hell anthony davis is a top 3-5 player and the pelicans barely made the playoffs.

as mentioned, with just durant, OKC still wasnt very good.

you need a star and 1-2 more all stars and some supporting case to really contend

[76ciology]

The 76ers were a solid team with Jrue Holiday - Iggy - Turner - Thad Young, yeah, could we make the playoffs, and maybe win a round? Sure, who gives a flying fk, that is not the point of building a team. The point is to build a finals contending team. I don't care if this 76ers rebuild takes 5+ years, which in undoubtedly will, because if it works out we will see progress during those 5 years. Okafor could end up winning ROY, we could get a possible franchise player in the 2016 draft.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. If I was given the ability to be the GM of any team in the league right now, the 76ers, Bucks, T'Wolves would be in my top 10 choices because of their potential down the line here.

the thing is okafor could turn into a top 10 player and philly still not be a great team. hell anthony davis is a top 3-5 player and the pelicans barely made the playoffs.

as mentioned, with just durant, OKC still wasnt very good.

you need a star and 1-2 more all stars and some supporting case to really contend

I agree. And that's why the team is not settling right now and doesn't want to get pregnant by average players.

For me, the icing on the cake would be the 2 projected top 5 picks next year. That along with Jah/Noel. The capspace, Saric and Embiid are just bonus.

[joyeuxnoel]

The 76ers were a solid team with Jrue Holiday - Iggy - Turner - Thad Young, yeah, could we make the playoffs, and maybe win a round? Sure, who gives a flying fk, that is not the point of building a team. The point is to build a finals contending team. I don't care if this 76ers rebuild takes 5+ years, which in undoubtedly will, because if it works out we will see progress during those 5 years. Okafor could end up winning ROY, we could get a possible franchise player in the 2016 draft.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. If I was given the ability to be the GM of any team in the league right now, the 76ers, Bucks, T'Wolves would be in my top 10 choices because of their potential down the line here.

the thing is okafor could turn into a top 10 player and philly still not be a great team. hell anthony davis is a top 3-5 player and the pelicans barely made the playoffs.

as mentioned, with just durant, OKC still wasnt very good.

you need a star and 1-2 more all stars and some supporting case to really contend

I agree. And that's why the team is not settling right now and doesn't want to get pregnant by average players.

For me, the icing on the cake would be the 2 projected top 5 picks next year. That along with Jah/Noel. The capspace, Saric and Embiid are just bonus.

we get one of the PGs and one of the wings to fill out our roster?

pg: demetrius jackson/pierre jackson
sg: stauskas/1st rounder miami (3 and d)
sf: simmons/covington
pf: noel/saric
c: okafor/embiid/okc pick (big body defender)

[bwgood77]

btw, that gif with the treadmill was more about Embiid, who could become a super stud, but it encapulates the franchise of the sixers.