Chuck Texas & PMOTT3's Early Off-Season Review -- Toronto Raptors

[Hawk Eye]

Chuck and I have decided to go half and half together on giving our thoughts on every team's off-season thus far for your amusement. We will each take turns publishing these once a day. Buckle up gentleman; its going to be a long ride.

Chuck Texas's Review -- Toronto Raptors

Key Losses:

Lou Williams, Amir Johnson, Grevis Vasquez

Other Losses:

Tyler Hansbrough, Chuck Hayes, Landry Fields, Greg Stiemsma

Draft:

#20 Delon Wright- Senior PG out of Utah. Has NBA size and Pedigree.

Trades:

Vasquez for Norman Powell and a future 1st

This deal was one of the steals of the off-season and that was before Powell's performance in SL. Great deal.

Free Agency:

DeMarre Carroll, Corey Joseph, Luis Scola, Bismack Biyombo

If I look at each of these free agency moves individually i'm kinda meh on them. Carroll got an insane contract. Joseph got overpaid as well and I always worry about players leaving San Antonio and doing better. Scola and Biyombo are on good value deals but are also sort of one-dimensional players. But if I take them as a whole I see a clear direction. They are joining the trend of trying to have versatile perimeter defenders while using the PF to provide spacing. I certainly like these guys fitting with their core more than the guys that left.

Current Depth Chart:

(To the best of my ability)
PG: Kyle Lowry/Corey Joseph/Delon Wright
SG: DeMar DeRozan/Terrence Ross/Norman Powell
SF: DeMarre Carroll/James Johnson/Bruno Caboclo
PF: Patrick Patterson/Luis Scola
C: Jonas Valanciunas/Bismack Biyombo/Lucas Noguiera

Needs:

I think they need another scorer. Maybe Jonas gets that chance this year. But while I like the defenders that were added, that bench lacks punch. I would also like to see them add another veteran big who rebounds/defends. Could be an older end of bench type, but there is a lack of size/physicality there.

Thoughts:

I see Toronto competing for HCA in round 1 of the playoffs on the high end and being a 7 or 8 seed on the low end. I cant see this team missing the playoffs and I don't see them as any threat to the cavs. But anything else seems very possible. The team needs to make a decision on whether or not Val can be the center moving forward and if not then try to move him for value. I think the team might look to move DeRozan for a different 2 guard, but I think they actually need his offense especially with Lou moving on.

Overall, this team looks better than it did at the end of last year. They added some additional assets to use in trades. I don't mind the overpay for Carroll too much, though I do hate the joseph contract. If Wright pans out the way the team hopes then he will be hard to move. All the moves were logical and with a clear direction in mind (which isn't something we can say about every team).

Win/Loss Prediction: 53-29

Overall Grade: B

PMOTT3's Review -- Toronto Raptors

Key Losses:

Lou Williams, Amir Johnson, Grevis Vasquez

Other Losses:

Tyler Hansbrough, Chuck Hayes, Landry Fields, Greg Stiemsma

Draft:

#20- Delon Wright- I liked the decision to go with Wright here. I felt like the Raps needed a PG. Good NBA size and was a senior at Utah (so he should be more NBA ready).

Trades:

Grevis Vasquez for Norman Powell and the future-protected LAC 1st

I thought that this one of the most lop-sided trades of the off-season clearly in favor of the Raptors. Absolute steal and the fact that Powell is looking promising in SL is the cherry on top. Well done.


Free Agency:

DeMarre Carroll, Corey Joseph, Luis Scola, Bismack Biyombo

I think this is where CT and I start to drift a little. I really don't like the insane amount of money that Toronto threw at DeMarre even with upcoming spike in the salary cap. The raps are very ISO-oriented and coming from someone who watched a lot of Carroll last season, he just cant create any offense by himself. He relied on back doors, cuts, and the passing from the hawks system to get his buckets. However, his defense should translate no problem and I expect raps fans to be very pleased with that part of his game. Also didn't like the money thrown at Joseph but I expect him to be an average PG for them. I like that they got Scola and Biyombo on good value contracts but I just don't see them making much of an impact off the bench.

Current Depth Chart:

(To the best of my ability)
PG: Kyle Lowry/Corey Joseph/Delon Wright
SG: DeMar DeRozan/Terrence Ross/Norman Powell
SF: DeMarre Carroll/James Johnson/Bruno Caboclo
PF: Patrick Patterson/Luis Scola
C: Jonas Valanciunas/Bismack Biyombo/Lucas Noguiera

Needs:

I think that they will miss Lou's presence and bringing in a scorer off the bench should be one of their main needs. With Casey at the helm I just dont see a lot of success coming Toronto's way. I didnt like the way he managed Val's minutes last season (I expect that to happen again btw) and the weird lineups he would run at times. The offense is too ISO for me and needs more ball movement. So perhaps a new coach should also be high up on the list of needs.

Added Thoughts:

I expect Toronto to compete for a 4-8 seed in the playoffs. Perhaps they get HCA in round 1 of the 4 vs 5 matchup but I really don't see them as a 1-3 seed. With the East still being...well..the east, I definitely expect a playoffs appearance. I would like to see Casey try out a small ball lineup of Lowry/DeRozan/Ross/Carroll/Val or Biyombo. Lots of lanes, speed, and floor spacing with that lineup. I may be being a bit too harsh on the raps. Overall, I thought they had a decent off-season with some okay to good moves (with the draft night trade and selection of Wright being my favorite). There were certainly teams that I felt did worse than them so not too shabby I guess.

Win/Loss Prediction: 49-33

Overall Grade: C+

[brackdan70]

Nicely done guys...looking forward to the rest.

[HartfordWhalers]

C+ seems low.

They had one of the 2-3 best trades of the offseason, got their main target, and added some interesting bench pieces. I think it was one of the better below radar off seasons.

[Hawk Eye]

C+ seems low.

They had one of the 2-3 best trades of the offseason, got their main target, and added some interesting bench pieces. I think it was one of the better below radar off seasons.

I did state that i loved the Vasquez trade, thought they pulled off a Sam Hinkie-like heist in completing it. There were other reasons into me giving them a C+ though. I don't see an aging Scola and undersized C Biyombo making much of a difference. I think not retaining Lou is going to haunt them. The dude just won 6MOTY and was a productive scorer off the bench that had plenty of clutch moments for them last season. The overpays for Joseph and Carroll turned me off as well.

[Worm122]

Bruno Cabloco will play more minutes and this is enough to go to the finals

[Salted Meat]

C+ seems low.

They had one of the 2-3 best trades of the offseason, got their main target, and added some interesting bench pieces. I think it was one of the better below radar off seasons.

I did state that i loved the Vasquez trade, thought they pulled off a Sam Hinkie-like heist in completing it. There were other reasons into me giving them a C+ though. I don't see an aging Scola and undersized C Biyombo making much of a difference. I think not retaining Lou is going to haunt them. The dude just won 6MOTY and was a productive scorer off the bench that had plenty of clutch moments for them last season. The overpays for Joseph and Carroll turned me off as well.

Is the money really a concern? A lot of teams overpaid for guys they wanted, and the Raptors still somehow came out of it with some value contracts, as well as additional draft picks. If Norman Powell even sniffs meaningful minutes during the season, the value of his contract should offset the overpay for Joseph, right?

I think Lou Williams will undoubtedly be missed for his scoring ability, but he was always a double-edged sword, in that the team often had to change its style of play to become more of a gunning ISO-oriented offensive team instead of the defence-first team they worked so hard to become in 2014. If losing a point or two per 100 possessions is the sacrifice the team has to make to improve their defence, which fell to 26th from top-10, then that's a sacrifice I'd think any team would be comfortable making.

What we learned last year (and I think what's maybe being overlooked) is that, if Lowry isn't able to play at a top-10 PG level, we really struggle moving the ball. Adding Joseph (despite the pricetag) and Wright should ensure the ball keeps from sticking too much, and as backup PG's, are both worlds above what we had last year as in Williams and Vasquez. This should help move us away from the ISO-driven offence we often saw last year (especially the 2nd half of the season when Lowry was injured).

At the end of the day, I think this team is better overall, and has pieces that fit the coach's vision better than last season. I don't know if it's a team that can make the Conference Finals, but it's a team with a much more competitive identity, and should at least be in conversation for the second round. That alone should give it a mark better than C+.

[Laimbeer]

Spoiler:

Chuck and I have decided to go half and half together on giving our thoughts on every team's off-season thus far for your amusement. We will each take turns publishing these once a day. Buckle up gentleman; its going to be a long ride.

Chuck Texas's Review -- Toronto Raptors

Key Losses:

Lou Williams, Amir Johnson, Grevis Vasquez

Other Losses:

Tyler Hansbrough, Chuck Hayes, Landry Fields, Greg Stiemsma

Draft:

#20 Delon Wright- Senior PG out of Utah. Has NBA size and Pedigree.

Trades:

Vasquez for Norman Powell and a future 1st

This deal was one of the steals of the off-season and that was before Powell's performance in SL. Great deal.

Free Agency:

DeMarre Carroll, Corey Joseph, Luis Scola, Bismack Biyombo

If I look at each of these free agency moves individually i'm kinda meh on them. Carroll got an insane contract. Joseph got overpaid as well and I always worry about players leaving San Antonio and doing better. Scola and Biyombo are on good value deals but are also sort of one-dimensional players. But if I take them as a whole I see a clear direction. They are joining the trend of trying to have versatile perimeter defenders while using the PF to provide spacing. I certainly like these guys fitting with their core more than the guys that left.

Current Depth Chart:

(To the best of my ability)
PG: Kyle Lowry/Corey Joseph/Delon Wright
SG: DeMar DeRozan/Terrence Ross/Norman Powell
SF: DeMarre Carroll/James Johnson/Bruno Caboclo
PF: Patrick Patterson/Luis Scola
C: Jonas Valanciunas/Bismack Biyombo/Lucas Noguiera

Needs:

I think they need another scorer. Maybe Jonas gets that chance this year. But while I like the defenders that were added, that bench lacks punch. I would also like to see them add another veteran big who rebounds/defends. Could be an older end of bench type, but there is a lack of size/physicality there.

Thoughts:

I see Toronto competing for HCA in round 1 of the playoffs on the high end and being a 7 or 8 seed on the low end. I cant see this team missing the playoffs and I don't see them as any threat to the cavs. But anything else seems very possible. The team needs to make a decision on whether or not Val can be the center moving forward and if not then try to move him for value. I think the team might look to move DeRozan for a different 2 guard, but I think they actually need his offense especially with Lou moving on.

Overall, this team looks better than it did at the end of last year. They added some additional assets to use in trades. I don't mind the overpay for Carroll too much, though I do hate the joseph contract. If Wright pans out the way the team hopes then he will be hard to move. All the moves were logical and with a clear direction in mind (which isn't something we can say about every team).

Win/Loss Prediction: 53-29

Overall Grade: B

PMOTT3's Review -- Toronto Raptors

Key Losses:

Lou Williams, Amir Johnson, Grevis Vasquez

Other Losses:

Tyler Hansbrough, Chuck Hayes, Landry Fields, Greg Stiemsma

Draft:

#20- Delon Wright- I liked the decision to go with Wright here. I felt like the Raps needed a PG. Good NBA size and was a senior at Utah (so he should be more NBA ready).

Trades:

Grevis Vasquez for Norman Powell and the future-protected LAC 1st

I thought that this one of the most lop-sided trades of the off-season clearly in favor of the Raptors. Absolute steal and the fact that Powell is looking promising in SL is the cherry on top. Well done.


Free Agency:

DeMarre Carroll, Corey Joseph, Luis Scola, Bismack Biyombo

I think this is where CT and I start to drift a little. I really don't like the insane amount of money that Toronto threw at DeMarre even with upcoming spike in the salary cap. The raps are very ISO-oriented and coming from someone who watched a lot of Carroll last season, he just cant create any offense by himself. He relied on back doors, cuts, and the passing from the hawks system to get his buckets. However, his defense should translate no problem and I expect raps fans to be very pleased with that part of his game. Also didn't like the money thrown at Joseph but I expect him to be an average PG for them. I like that they got Scola and Biyombo on good value contracts but I just don't see them making much of an impact off the bench.

Current Depth Chart:

(To the best of my ability)
PG: Kyle Lowry/Corey Joseph/Delon Wright
SG: DeMar DeRozan/Terrence Ross/Norman Powell
SF: DeMarre Carroll/James Johnson/Bruno Caboclo
PF: Patrick Patterson/Luis Scola
C: Jonas Valanciunas/Bismack Biyombo/Lucas Noguiera

Needs:

I think that they will miss Lou's presence and bringing in a scorer off the bench should be one of their main needs. With Casey at the helm I just dont see a lot of success coming Toronto's way. I didnt like the way he managed Val's minutes last season (I expect that to happen again btw) and the weird lineups he would run at times. The offense is too ISO for me and needs more ball movement. So perhaps a new coach should also be high up on the list of needs.

Added Thoughts:

I expect Toronto to compete for a 4-8 seed in the playoffs. Perhaps they get HCA in round 1 of the 4 vs 5 matchup but I really don't see them as a 1-3 seed. With the East still being...well..the east, I definitely expect a playoffs appearance. I would like to see Casey try out a small ball lineup of Lowry/DeRozan/Ross/Carroll/Val or Biyombo. Lots of lanes, speed, and floor spacing with that lineup. I may be being a bit too harsh on the raps. Overall, I thought they had a decent off-season with some okay to good moves (with the draft night trade and selection of Wright being my favorite). There were certainly teams that I felt did worse than them so not too shabby I guess.

Win/Loss Prediction: 49-33

Overall Grade: C+

How about adding a poll for grades?

[loserX]

These reviews are smart and well-thought-out. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

I like most of the players Toronto added as individuals, but there are still questions ahead. The Raps have one above-average big man in Valanciunas, and Casey doesn't seem to trust him much either. And Carroll is a fine, fine player, but it's going to be a culture shock on offence going from Budenholzer's ball-movement system to Casey's grab bag of isos. Basically, I agree with your comment that coaching is going to be a big difference-maker for this team next year. Can Casey adapt?

[HornetJail]

Biz was an absolute steal for $3M, and that Vasquez trade was a steal as well- Powell looks good, and they got a future 1st on top of it. They definitely overpaid for DeMarre Carroll's services, and Cory Joseph is very expensive for what appears to be an average backup. I think Toronto is kind of jogging in place with DeRozan as their best player, and I don't think they're done dealing yet. The Raptors are a pretty erratic group as they go through long hot stretches and long frigid stretches, so this team could finish anywhere between 2 and 10 in the East - I don't think that's changed.

[Hawk Eye]

edited with poll*

[HartfordWhalers]

edited with poll*

I love you.


My feeling after being harsh on the C+ was I voted B-.

I break it down with:

Trades: A+ Wow that was brutal for the Bucks.
Draft: A-/B+ I would have gone with Portis. And Portis. And Tyus might be a lot worse, but I would have considered him anyway (after Portis). But they still got a great guy.
Free Agency: B I liked it. Its an overpay, but Joseph and Biyombo add interesting youth. I'm okay with Lou being gone.
Other/Not done moves: D I think they needed to think hard on a DeRozan deal. And a coaching change perhaps.

Looking at what they did, I'm more bullish with the free agency than you. But the not done moves the more I thought on it dragged the score down.

[Laimbeer]

B-

Carroll was one of those "defensively bad" contracts but he should make them better. Vasquez trade was a steal, and they got Biz cheap.

[Hawk Eye]

edited with poll*

I love you.


My feeling after being harsh on the C+ was I voted B-.

I break it down with:

Trades: A+ Wow that was brutal for the Bucks.
Draft: A-/B+ I would have gone with Portis. And Portis. And Tyus might be a lot worse, but I would have considered him anyway (after Portis). But they still got a great guy.
Free Agency: B I liked it. Its an overpay, but Joseph and Biyombo add interesting youth. I'm okay with Lou being gone.
Other/Not done moves: D I think they needed to think hard on a DeRozan deal. And a coaching change perhaps.

Looking at what they did, I'm more bullish with the free agency than you. But the not done moves the more I thought on it dragged the score down.

The more I look at it the more I think I should have given them a B-. I may have been too harsh because that heist of a trade they pulled off against the bucks has to account for something right? That trade alone should probably get them above a C+. We definitely agree there. But i still dont like most of the additions made in free agency with the exception of Carroll (and that was a massive overpay) and i hate that they didn't retain Lou. All in all its pretty debatable but i expect the B- option to be the favorite in the polls. Chuck and I are really looking forward to the rest of these so I hope you guys stay tuned

[HartfordWhalers]

edited with poll*

I love you.


My feeling after being harsh on the C+ was I voted B-.

I break it down with:

Trades: A+ Wow that was brutal for the Bucks.
Draft: A-/B+ I would have gone with Portis. And Portis. And Tyus might be a lot worse, but I would have considered him anyway (after Portis). But they still got a great guy.
Free Agency: B I liked it. Its an overpay, but Joseph and Biyombo add interesting youth. I'm okay with Lou being gone.
Other/Not done moves: D I think they needed to think hard on a DeRozan deal. And a coaching change perhaps.

Looking at what they did, I'm more bullish with the free agency than you. But the not done moves the more I thought on it dragged the score down.

The more I look at it the more I think I should have given them a B-. I may have been too harsh because that heist of a trade they pulled off against the bucks has to account for something right? That trade alone should probably get them above a C+. We definitely agree there. But i still dont like most of the additions made in free agency with the exception of Carroll (and that was a massive overpay) and i hate that they didn't retain Lou. All in all its pretty debatable but i expect the B- option to be the favorite in the polls. Chuck and I are really looking forward to the rest of these so I hope you guys stay tuned

I am. Really enjoyed it. If Chuck ever abandons you, I'm happy to help

[bondom34]

Just wanted to add, this really is fantastic. Look forward to them, can't wait.

[Dukenukem23]

I agree with alot that has been said here.

My thoughts:

Raptors changed alot of the assistant coaches but didn't change the head coach, that was a mistake.

Carroll is overpaid by a couple million, but we got him without giving up picks or other assets but cap room. Also, all of the bad contracts of the past are off the books so a slight overpay on a productive high usage player is acceptable.

Biyombo and Scola were great value. Powell wad a steal and wright looks very good, but would have liked Portis here as he fills the need/potential more.

Vasquez Trade was unreal.

Cory Joseph signing looks very foolish right now, I hope he proves me wrong.

Needs: head coach, big sf/sg that can fill it up from 3 off the pine and a starting quality pf that can stretch the floor and rebound.

Overall I'd give the raps an A-. If they can extend Val and Ross on value contracts this summer, plus move Demar for an upgrade at pf I'd give them an A+

[jazzfan1971]

JazzfansRamblings: First off props to you guys for attempting this. It's a huge investment of time and energy. You get 30 teams done in 30 days and I'll eat my hat. (or a PB&J with very little P or J)

Secondly: I wonder if you guys are being nice for the sake of being nice. Reminds me a bit of the town of Greater Tuna where all the children are above average. I think Toronto is going to be quite a bit worse this year. The losses were pretty large by my eye. Williams gave them some needed scoring punch and that hasn't been replaced and it seemed to me that Amir was the glue of the team that kind of made things work. And I don't think that's been replaced either.

What were the replacements?

Demarre Carroll: Love the kid. Great story. But, he's a guy that other players make better, not the other way around. Without the players and system he was in at Atlanta he's going to look much more like the player he was in Utah than the player he was in Atlanta. I expect that contract is going to blow up in Toronto's collective face before long and fans will be clamoring for someone, anyone else to be the starting SF.

Cory Jospeph: I'm not even sure he will be 2nd string. That is I somewhat expect Delon to have taken over those duties by the all-star break. Then you have the leagues highest paid 3rd string PG. (I haven't checked that, but, certainly in the running)

And the other guys? Just bench fodder. If you are playing Scola or Biyombo significant minutes you are losing the war.

I don't see a 50 win team there. I see a team that will struggle mightly to score. I'd say closer to 40 wins and maybe not even that. Maybe a lotto team. I would imagine that Dwayne Casey's seat is going to be quite warm 20 games in if he makes it that long.

[jazzfan1971]

Hardly got any Toronto fans opinions. Which is odd because Toronto fans dominate Realgm. So, I'm giving it a friendly bump.

[Duffman100]

I would say B. Added some good players but our frontcourt is still severely lacking.

[Susp3ct]

Losing Lou was an addition by subtraction. He did score but he chugged away and broke up the team chemistry and played zero D.

And our biggest need is a starting PF