Zach Lowe article on Suns and Sixers rebuild going in different directions

[Coast]

the problem with the sixers:

You need to tank at the right time, and draft a star. then build around that star through FA. The sixers have gone the route of tanking, and drafting a start, but they havent gone the next step and build around them through FA. I'm 100% sure that the Sixers could have built a playoff contender this offseason, but have refused to take the next step and use cap space to field a team that wants to win. What does that do to the youth they've accumulated? It tells them that winning is secondary to making money. THAT SUCKS.

the problem with the suns:

You can build a solid core around secondary players, without the promise of taking it to the next step. Without that star stud you draft, their is always promise of contending...but without that star player you solidify your fan base in the hope of something special without having to promise it. the suns have one of the most promising secondary youth cores, but without a star player, the fan base can hope for something special, but its not expected. THAT SUCKS.

the rebuild needs to be a combination of the two. Build promising youth through the draft, and add these secondary talents.

The sixers have done the first part, without the second.....the suns have done the second without the first.

I'll rephrase this for you:

"Sixers have done the first part, and are waiting to do the second...the Suns have done the second after skipping the first."

If you are baking a cake you can't skip the part about adding the eggs. (Unless you're a vegan, but we all know that doesn't taste as good )

[Purch]

The demonization of "treadmill" teams annoys me as well. Witnessing your team battle it out in the playoffs is a joy, regardless of whether or not you're the favorite, or people belive your team has no shot

[Sixerscan]

the problem with the sixers:

You need to tank at the right time, and draft a star. then build around that star through FA. The sixers have gone the route of tanking, and drafting a start, but they havent gone the next step and build around them through FA. I'm 100% sure that the Sixers could have built a playoff contender this offseason, but have refused to take the next step and use cap space to field a team that wants to win. What does that do to the youth they've accumulated? It tells them that winning is secondary to making money. THAT SUCKS.

the problem with the suns:

You can build a solid core around secondary players, without the promise of taking it to the next step. Without that star stud you draft, their is always promise of contending...but without that star player you solidify your fan base in the hope of something special without having to promise it. the suns have one of the most promising secondary youth cores, but without a star player, the fan base can hope for something special, but its not expected. THAT SUCKS.

the rebuild needs to be a combination of the two. Build promising youth through the draft, and add these secondary talents.

The sixers have done the first part, without the second.....the suns have done the second without the first.

Well the thinking for the Sixers is that, even when you draft a star, that draft pick doesn't become a star for several years. Free agents don't want to play with guys that will be stars in a few years, they want to play with guys that are stars now. So there's no use in taking up your cap space overpaying guys (How else will they agree to come here?) to play with a draft pick that hasn't even matured yet.

It makes more sense, the Sixers argue, to hold off on spending that money just yet, then spend it when your guys actually mature and free agents actually want to play with them. In the meantime, you can use that cap space to acquire more assets, and get more draft picks that can turn into pieces down the road. Which hopefully can make your team even more attractive to free agents.

Example: If Iguodala was a free agent in 2010, the Warriors probably would have had to max him out to get him to even consider playing for them. By 2013, when Curry and Thompson were coming into their own, Iggy actually turned down a max contract from the Kings and took less to play with them.

Not saying its a full proof plan, but I think there's some solid logic behind it.

[Hesh]

we're building a NBA team here not making a cake. you can skip whatever part you like as long as you reach that goal. there is no set method, that's why we're debating it.

[Sixerscan]

we're building a NBA team here not making a cake. you can skip whatever part you like as long as you reach that goal. there is no set method, that's why we're debating it.

Right. The Suns are trying to find a way to trade for a star/convince him to sign there. So it makes sense for them to build a decent team now to make the situation enticing.

Whereas the Sixers are trying to draft guys that can turn into stars and develop them. So they don't need to worry about making their situation enticing until those guys approach unrestricted free agency, with the additional hope being that the draft picks will develop and make it a good situation more or less on their own.

[Purch]

we're building a NBA team here not making a cake. you can skip whatever part you like as long as you reach that goal. there is no set method, that's why we're debating it.

Exactly, the last number 1 pick to lead a team to a championship was Duncan who was drafted 18 years ago. So obviously for 17 years the tanking startegy hasn't been producing the ultimate goal for the teams who tanked the best. The number 2 picks haven't been producing championships either.

So if you're not winning championships, what's so great about tanking? A team like the 08 celtics were only contenders due to trades. The Lakers won out on the Paul gasol trade. Miami signed Shaq. Detroit won despite drafting Darko. The 3 peat Lakers signed Shaq.

The vast majority of teams to win the past decade, have been mostly done through trade.

Remember Tony Parker was the 28th pick, Manu Ginobilli was a 2nd round pick, and Kawhi Leanord was drafted by a playoff teams. So even though they got Duncan with a top pick, what's allowed them to keep competing today was player development. So rather than always going back to the draft, develop the assets you have. The Spurs developed George Hill and traded him for Kawhi.

[Snotbubbles]

we're building a NBA team here not making a cake. you can skip whatever part you like as long as you reach that goal. there is no set method, that's why we're debating it.

Exactly, the last number 1 pick to lead a team to a championship was Duncan who was drafted 18 years ago. So obviously for 17 years the tanking startegy hasn't been producing the ultimate goal for the teams who tanked the best. The number 2 picks haven't been producing championships either.

So if you're not winning championships, what's so great about tanking? A team like the 08 celtics were only contenders due to trades. The Lakers won out on the Paul gasol trade. Miami signed Shaq. Detroit won despite drafting Darko. The 3 peat Lakers signed Shaq.

The vast majority of teams to win the past decade, have been mostly done through trade.

Remember Tony Parker was the 28th pick, Manu Ginobilli was a 2nd round pick, and Kawhi Leanord was drafted by a playoff teams. So even though they got Duncan with a top pick, what's allowed them to keep competing today was player development. So rather than always going back to the draft, develop the assets you have. The Spurs developed George Hill and traded him for Kawhi.

As has been said before, there are three ways to land a star: 1.) draft; 2.) trade; 3.) FA. The Sixers will use all the available avenues, not just one. They're accumulating assets in case a star becomes available through trade, they are keeping cap space available in case a star wants to sign there and they are trying to draft one. What they aren't doing is giving up assets in an attempt to keep up appearances to the general public that they are some "contender" because they signed some middling talent to get them an 8th seed.

[joyeuxnoel]

we're building a NBA team here not making a cake. you can skip whatever part you like as long as you reach that goal. there is no set method, that's why we're debating it.

Exactly, the last number 1 pick to lead a team to a championship was Duncan who was drafted 18 years ago. So obviously for 17 years the tanking startegy hasn't been producing the ultimate goal for the teams who tanked the best. The number 2 picks haven't been producing championships either.

So if you're not winning championships, what's so great about tanking? A team like the 08 celtics were only contenders due to trades. The Lakers won out on the Paul gasol trade. Miami signed Shaq. Detroit won despite drafting Darko. The 3 peat Lakers signed Shaq.

The vast majority of teams to win the past decade, have been mostly done through trade.

Remember Tony Parker was the 28th pick, Manu Ginobilli was a 2nd round pick, and Kawhi Leanord was drafted by a playoff teams. So even though they got Duncan with a top pick, what's allowed them to keep competing today was player development. So rather than always going back to the draft, develop the assets you have. The Spurs developed George Hill and traded him for Kawhi.

I dont even know where to start. You do realize you can accumulate assets then trade for a star i.e harden, melo, deron, dwight, bynum, cp3

And that hasnt led to any championships yet either so its not a bulletproof way to win

Some teams with 2 stars (clips, rockets, okc) have yet to win a ring

For the sixers to win a ring they're going to need at least two stars, probably 3 along with elite role players

And the easiest way to get stars is high draft picks or trading for them. But to get 3 stars you need to tank for a while. Perfect time to tank while lebron is in his prime

[rsavaj]

the problem with the sixers:

You need to tank at the right time, and draft a star. then build around that star through FA. The sixers have gone the route of tanking, and drafting a start, but they havent gone the next step and build around them through FA. I'm 100% sure that the Sixers could have built a playoff contender this offseason, but have refused to take the next step and use cap space to field a team that wants to win. What does that do to the youth they've accumulated? It tells them that winning is secondary to making money. THAT SUCKS.

the problem with the suns:

You can build a solid core around secondary players, without the promise of taking it to the next step. Without that star stud you draft, their is always promise of contending...but without that star player you solidify your fan base in the hope of something special without having to promise it. the suns have one of the most promising secondary youth cores, but without a star player, the fan base can hope for something special, but its not expected. THAT SUCKS.

the rebuild needs to be a combination of the two. Build promising youth through the draft, and add these secondary talents.

The sixers have done the first part, without the second.....the suns have done the second without the first.

So what you're saying is that if we could just merge both franchises together....

[rsavaj]

Can't we all go back to hating on the Lakers/Spurs/Heat/Cavs/Clippers/Rockets/Knicks/insert team here? This McDonough vs Hinikie battle is exhausting.

[HartfordWhalers]

Can't we all go back to hating on the Lakers/Spurs/Heat/Cavs/Clippers/Rockets/Knicks/insert team here? This McDonough vs Hinikie battle is exhausting.

People hate the Spurs?

[rsavaj]

Can't we all go back to hating on the Lakers/Spurs/Heat/Cavs/Clippers/Rockets/Knicks/insert team here? This McDonough vs Hinikie battle is exhausting.

People hate the Spurs?

My Arizona bias is showing

[ImChillin01]

Can't we all go back to hating on the Lakers/Spurs/Heat/Cavs/Clippers/Rockets/Knicks/insert team here? This McDonough vs Hinikie battle is exhausting.

People hate the Spurs?

Heat, Mavs, Rox, Suns, Lakers fans hate em

[rmfc]

Gotta feel bad for both fan bases.

One FO would rather hit the lottery (in the way of twiddling thumbs and not doing actual work required to build a team) while the other FO keeps on making puzzling moves.

[Revived]

Which one has a higher success rate to land a superstar? A small market team stealing a superstar via FA or a top 3 pick?

Suns came close to landing LMA like 2 weeks ago...

Yup, but did they land him?

You look at the Sixers right now, they have Jah, Biid and projected top 5 picks next year as candidates (please don't assume I'm thinking to be star/superstar. The probability for success is much higher.

Perhaps...

[mksp]

Gotta feel bad for both fan bases.

One FO would rather hit the lottery (in the way of twiddling thumbs and not doing actual work required to build a team) while the other FO keeps on making puzzling moves.

Yeah, this isn't really a constructive comment.

We say it all the time, but don't feel bad for Philly fans, we're doing just fine. And there's not a single Philly fan on RealGM that would trade our roster / assets for Detroits.

[rmfc]

Gotta feel bad for both fan bases.

One FO would rather hit the lottery (in the way of twiddling thumbs and not doing actual work required to build a team) while the other FO keeps on making puzzling moves.

Yeah, this isn't really a constructive comment.

We say it all the time, but don't feel bad for Philly fans, we're doing just fine. And there's not a single Philly fan on RealGM that would trade our roster / assets for Detroits.

But that's constructive? Yeah..no.

So ...none of Philly fans on RealGM would want Drummond on their team? Funny stuff.

I can understand trying to defend favorite team's FO (what else can you do as a fan, right?) but everyone will probably agree that your last comment was a bit much.

[BullyKing]

Gotta feel bad for both fan bases.

One FO would rather hit the lottery (in the way of twiddling thumbs and not doing actual work required to build a team) while the other FO keeps on making puzzling moves.

Yeah, this isn't really a constructive comment.

We say it all the time, but don't feel bad for Philly fans, we're doing just fine. And there's not a single Philly fan on RealGM that would trade our roster / assets for Detroits.

But that's constructive? Yeah..no.

So ...none of Philly fans on RealGM would want Drummond on their team? Funny stuff.

I can understand trying to defend favorite team's FO (what else can you do as a fan, right?) but everyone will probably agree that your last comment was a bit much.

Of course we would like to have Drummond on our team. But as a WHOLE we would prefer Philly's assets to Detroit's.

[KingFox]

No one is celebrating anything except GS fans I hope. Suns fans are here wondering how can you look down on someone when you are underneath them?

Underneath them? Lmao ......Suns fans having this kind of hubris is adorable to me ....you have done nothing and accomplished less than that team and YOUR trying to rationalize to me why in your mind that's ok ..yet I'm the irrational one?? Lol ...my question is how many years of missing the playoffs in a row do Suns fans find to be acceptable?? I guess it's just a different mentality for teams that have won the whole enchilada and teams that never have ...I suppose when you don't know that feeling of achievement subconsciously your willing to accept anything as a victory ....claiming that 5 straight years of non playoff basketball has been entertaining to you is bizarre to me ....but hey ....that's your prerogative

And when you are called out on it, you get upset.

This sounds like projection ...we're on a sports forum talking about a game we all love ....relax

If you are not a SAS, GS, Cavs, OKC, or Rockets' fan, you have your own business to take care of.....Maybe the Clippers,

We'll be alright ...i can walk and chew gum at the same time

Honestly, I don't think many teams are in a better spot than the Suns. And I'd rather be them than a middling east team as well.

eh, they have no franchise player though. They're kinda like the Raptors of the west

they give me treadmill team vibes

[Latrell]

we're building a NBA team here not making a cake. you can skip whatever part you like as long as you reach that goal. there is no set method, that's why we're debating it.

Exactly, the last number 1 pick to lead a team to a championship was Duncan who was drafted 18 years ago. So obviously for 17 years the tanking startegy hasn't been producing the ultimate goal for the teams who tanked the best. The number 2 picks haven't been producing championships either.

So if you're not winning championships, what's so great about tanking? A team like the 08 celtics were only contenders due to trades. The Lakers won out on the Paul gasol trade. Miami signed Shaq. Detroit won despite drafting Darko. The 3 peat Lakers signed Shaq.

The vast majority of teams to win the past decade, have been mostly done through trade.

Remember Tony Parker was the 28th pick, Manu Ginobilli was a 2nd round pick, and Kawhi Leanord was drafted by a playoff teams. So even though they got Duncan with a top pick, what's allowed them to keep competing today was player development. So rather than always going back to the draft, develop the assets you have. The Spurs developed George Hill and traded him for Kawhi.

Its simple really. Fans of 'tanking' teams talk themselves into this being a good strategy because their teams do it.