2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread

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Re: AW: Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#221 » by Kaiser30 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:37 am

Foye wrote:So you are basically one of the Guardiola homers.

I do agree that Guardiola's approach is better for the Bundesliga since especially the lower table teams do not have the individual quality to exploit the high standing Bayern defense. Meanwhile Bayern standing higher can put more pressure on them.

However, I don't think Bayern will ever win the CL with Guardiola's tactic.
Quality defending teams just need to sit back and take care of the good counter attacking chances Bayern basically always give up or pressure Xabi Alonso who is simply not quick enough to play on UCL level anymore.

Also, Heynckes squad was much more balanced. The defense was rock solid and much better coordinated than it is these days.
You are selling Heynckes short if you say they were a counter attacking side. They had a lot of possession back then, too, and didn't really have to rely on other teams mistakes at all. The offense was just as potent as it is now, if not even better.

It's not like I'm agreeing with every move he makes. He definitely could have handeled some stuff better than he actually did. But in general, I think the hate Pep receives is sometimes beyond ridiculous. For instance Schweini's departure. So many people are blaming Pep but we don't know to what extent he is responsible for it. Schweini already talked years ago about leaving Bayern for a new challenge and his desire to make experiences abroad. Moreover, it looks like he is going to earn a **** of money. His English has also improved massively over the last year, so maybe it was a planned move.

Regarding Bayern's high defensive line, its success highly depends on the players not making individual mistakes, especially loosing the ball in midfield. It definitely is a risky approach but it also has some advantages.

Heynckes' team was indeed well-balanced, but after Müller replaced Kroos, the team's ability to keep possession was much weaker and counter attacking became its biggest strength. Bayern was back then not as much feared as it is now, so there was also more space to operate and more opportunities to hit teams on the counter. Scoring goals against set defenses is in my opinion much more difficult, so I believe Bayern's offense is way superior than it was back then. Their dominance in the Bundesliga is much more obvious than it was while Heynckes was the coach.

But I do agree that Pep should rethink his approach in late stages of the UCL. These games are usually extremely close and it's highly ambitious to not only win the game but also dominate the other team while facing a European top team having lots of individual quality to punish every single mistake.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#222 » by cgf » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:06 pm

I can't fault Schalke for approaching Eberl; but I really hope he stays with BMG rather than getting involved in that mess. Eberl and Favre make a fantastic partnership and are building something wonderful in gladbach with great fans and freedom to operate, that is getting close to coming to fruition.

Has there been any news about BVB and Zivkovic?
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#223 » by cgf » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:38 pm

I'm not a pep fan, but I love how pissed traditionalists get with him. He's the first bayern coach to use Alaba at his best position and the way he's used him as a CB has been very innovative. He's helped Boa take the next step to world class. He's taken Bayern's collective possession game to a level that it didn't reach even during Jupp's final season. And when you think about the injury problems he's had to deal with versus the problems Jupp had during the treble year; his tenure starts to become rather impressive. Plus I think Lahm's effective career is being extended significantly by the move into midfield (though he must play a possession-supporting, not a possession-driving role there).

Ultimately the class of Barca's front 3 put Bayern away in the CL this season, but there was a significant stretch in the second half of that second leg where Bayern had Barca rattled (despite their absences). So I can't say for sure that they wouldn't have gotten that next goal quicker to really make Barca panic if Alaba, Robben or Ribery had been on the pitch. That performance impressed me given how much quality was missing from the pitch/just returning to action. With Vidal replacing Schweini; Kimmich and Hojbjerg joining the midfield rotation; and Costa hopefully filling the role Shaqiri was meant for behind Robbery; just some reasonable health (relative to their players) would see them right there with Barca and Real as the real CL contenders.


I certainly have my gripes. His attempts to turn Gotze into the German-Messi instead of the German-Iniesta. His love of Rafinha and Xabi. Him putting Javi back at CB more than at the 6 (although with Martinez's injuries I don't know exactly how that split would've worked out. Being unable to make the relationship with the difficult Mandzukic keep working so they could've kept him for a year longer; smoothing Lewy's integration into the side, and letting them rotate through Lewy, Robben, Mandzo, and Mueller (no Gotze) up top.

But his detractors over-react immensely; especially when his first two seasons have been massively more successful than the beloved Heynkes’ first two seasons where; and they blame him for things like the Kroos departure, which was on the board entirely. So it’s amusing to me to see how riled up Pep makes the traditionalists. That’s why I hope we get to see him rock something like:

-----------Lewy
Bernat - Gotze - Thiago - Robben
---- Alaba - Lahm - Vidal
---------Boa - Javi
-----------Neuer

or

-------Lewy - Mueller
----------Gotze
Bernat - Alaba - Vidal - Robben
-------Thiago/Lahm
---------Boa - Javi
-----------Neuer

to great effect in a big CL match this season; just to enjoy watching all of the talking heads’ heads explode.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#224 » by Lakers415 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:32 pm

I can see this....

Robert
Gotze-Vidal-Robben
Thiago-Alonso
Alaba-benatia-boateng-lahm

Pep team have a background of pressing like dogs. Only player that press like that was robben. Now, with vidal he can lead the press in the cam with his infinity stamina, similar to what Oscar does for Chelsea.

I would prefer to take alonso out for JM, but I don't think Pep would since most teams will park the bus against Munich.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#225 » by Lakers415 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:34 pm

A lot of rumors are out that ribery isn't healing up to process and will miss a good chunk of the season like JM did last year. So, muller and costa and rotate in the attacking roles and rode/hoiberg for the pivot.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#226 » by cgf » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:49 pm

I doubt Pep puts Alaba back at LB. He's just so much more of a difference maker through the middle. Really are a ton of options for you general

FW: Lewy / Robben / Mueller / Kurt / Gotze
W: Robben / Ribery / Mueller / Costa / Gotze / Kurt / Green
10: Gotze / Robben / Thiago / Alaba / Mueller
B2B 8s: Alaba / Vidal / Rode / Lahm
passing 8s: Thiago / Gotze / Hojbjerg / Gaudino
6: Javi / Thiago / Lahm / Kimmich / Xabi / Hojbjerg / Dorsch
CB: Boa / Alaba / Javi / Benatia / Badstuber / Dante

My biggest gripe with your roster is that Rafinha is the only alternative to Lahm. Bernat is a fine wing back on the left, but Rafinha is just too inept with the ball to so mediocre against it and remain a real option.

That's why I'd play a back 3 with wing backs; using Robben/Bernat/Costa/Ribery/Green for the wing back spots. And then adjust the back 3 (with Alaba and Lahm options for the outside CB spots) and other 5 players on the pitch to the opposition.

My best 11 for Bayern would probably look like:
----- Lewy - Robben
-------- Gotze (If Mueller he moves to the wing opposite Robben and no 10 is used)
----- Alaba - Vidal
-------- Thiago
Bernat - Javi - Boa - Lahm
--------- Neuer

or

----------- Lewy - Mueller
Bernat - Gotze/Thiago - Vidal - Robben
----------- Thiago/Lahm
--------- Alaba - Javi - Boa
------------- Neuer

or

------------- Lewy
------------- Gotze
Bernat - Alaba/Thiago - Vidal - Robben
------------- Thiago/Lahm
----- Benatia/Alaba - Javi - Boa
------------- Neuer
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#227 » by No_20 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:24 pm

cgf wrote:Shouldn't you be preparing an explanation for why Tah actually just wasn't good enough for HSV, and that that is why Bayer are poaching him off of you?

Spahic was one of the best defenders in Germany last season. I'm pretty sure HSV will cope. Dont worry.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#228 » by truth18 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:35 pm

God damn. Bayern fans invading this thread
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2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#229 » by ATL Boy » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:16 am

No_20 wrote:
cgf wrote:Shouldn't you be preparing an explanation for why Tah actually just wasn't good enough for HSV, and that that is why Bayer are poaching him off of you?

Spahic was one of the best defenders in Germany last season. I'm pretty sure HSV will cope. Dont worry.

I actually agree. Despite being a moron, Spahic is a very capable defender, and he should soften the blow of losing Tah.


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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#230 » by Lakers415 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:09 pm

cgf wrote:I doubt Pep puts Alaba back at LB. He's just so much more of a difference maker through the middle. Really are a ton of options for you general

FW: Lewy / Robben / Mueller / Kurt / Gotze
W: Robben / Ribery / Mueller / Costa / Gotze / Kurt / Green
10: Gotze / Robben / Thiago / Alaba / Mueller
B2B 8s: Alaba / Vidal / Rode / Lahm
passing 8s: Thiago / Gotze / Hojbjerg / Gaudino
6: Javi / Thiago / Lahm / Kimmich / Xabi / Hojbjerg / Dorsch
CB: Boa / Alaba / Javi / Benatia / Badstuber / Dante

My biggest gripe with your roster is that Rafinha is the only alternative to Lahm. Bernat is a fine wing back on the left, but Rafinha is just too inept with the ball to so mediocre against it and remain a real option.

That's why I'd play a back 3 with wing backs; using Robben/Bernat/Costa/Ribery/Green for the wing back spots. And then adjust the back 3 (with Alaba and Lahm options for the outside CB spots) and other 5 players on the pitch to the opposition.

My best 11 for Bayern would probably look like:
----- Lewy - Robben
-------- Gotze (If Mueller he moves to the wing opposite Robben and no 10 is used)
----- Alaba - Vidal
-------- Thiago
Bernat - Javi - Boa - Lahm
--------- Neuer

or

----------- Lewy - Mueller
Bernat - Gotze/Thiago - Vidal - Robben
----------- Thiago/Lahm
--------- Alaba - Javi - Boa
------------- Neuer

or

------------- Lewy
------------- Gotze
Bernat - Alaba/Thiago - Vidal - Robben
------------- Thiago/Lahm
----- Benatia/Alaba - Javi - Boa
------------- Neuer


Gotze isn't highly valued by Pep, so Gotze really isn't a guaranteed starter for me...

The untouchable for me under Pep are

Neuer, Alaba, lahm, thiago, robben and robert. Those 6 are guaranteed starters.
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Post#231 » by Andi Obst » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:46 am

Darida is a very solid signing for us.
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Post#232 » by Foye » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:35 pm

Little Nathan wrote:Darida is a very solid signing for us.


Agreed. Love that dude. If he wasnt a football player he'd probably do marathon or triathlon lol.
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Re: 

Post#233 » by cgf » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:39 pm

Little Nathan wrote:Darida is a very solid signing for us.


Yeah, if you guys can find some goals up front that could be a pretty capable first league team. I like Weiser and Schulz if you play them as your FBs/WBs; Stocker has talent on the left wing; and Darida's a nice player who really shined for the czechs at the last euros...even if he hasn't progressed since then like I had hoped he would.
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Post#234 » by Andi Obst » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:21 pm

I'd definitely like to see another striker and a CB with some experience (but not a crazy one like Spahic or a horrible one like Heitinga last year). If Preetz manages to get guys who fit that description then I'm completely fine with our summer. But I'm still not convinced that Dardai is the right coach.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#235 » by truth18 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:26 pm

Just saw a guy wearing a Koln kit in downtown Philly. Interrupted his meal with some fine blonde to point out how odd it was. She looked at me like I was crazy. He just had a look of shame on his face lol. I walked away. Strange moment.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#236 » by No_20 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:05 pm

truth18 wrote:Just saw a guy wearing a Koln kit in downtown Philly. Interrupted his meal with some fine blonde to point out how odd it was. She looked at me like I was crazy. He just had a look of shame on his face lol. I walked away. Strange moment.

Not really, there are loads of German Americans in Pennsylvania. Many guys in this thread have lived/live in America as well.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#237 » by truth18 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:09 pm

No_20 wrote:
truth18 wrote:Just saw a guy wearing a Koln kit in downtown Philly. Interrupted his meal with some fine blonde to point out how odd it was. She looked at me like I was crazy. He just had a look of shame on his face lol. I walked away. Strange moment.

Not really, there are loads of German Americans in Pennsylvania. Many guys in this thread have lived/live in America as well.


True, I've seen Bayer, HSV and Bayern kits downtown before. Just thought Koln was odd. Good point about the German-Americans here though, wasn't really thinking about that but I'm sure that's a big part of it.

Honestly never seen anyone wearing a Koln jersey before.
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AW: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#238 » by Foye » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:30 pm

Judging by their transfer activities this summer Wolfsburg seem to be committed to building a pretender.

This is the summer they needed to put a lot of money on the table for CB/DM/CF reinforcements to increase the chance De Bruyne stays at least until 2017. What are Allofs and Hecking doing? Basically nothing.

Soon enough they'll fall apart again like they did after their championship year. Probably not as much as back then but they'll field another overpaid 4th-6th place team once de Bruyne is gone.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#239 » by Lakers415 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:03 pm

Thiago will be the best player in the world.
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Re: 2015-16 German Bundesliga Discussion Thread 

Post#240 » by No_20 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:47 pm

truth18 wrote:
No_20 wrote:
truth18 wrote:Just saw a guy wearing a Koln kit in downtown Philly. Interrupted his meal with some fine blonde to point out how odd it was. She looked at me like I was crazy. He just had a look of shame on his face lol. I walked away. Strange moment.

Not really, there are loads of German Americans in Pennsylvania. Many guys in this thread have lived/live in America as well.


True, I've seen Bayer, HSV and Bayern kits downtown before. Just thought Koln was odd. Good point about the German-Americans here though, wasn't really thinking about that but I'm sure that's a big part of it.

Honestly never seen anyone wearing a Koln jersey before.

FC Köln are a shambles but they have one of the biggest fanbases in Germany.

Much, much bigger fanbase than Vizekusen.
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