PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder

Moderators: Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers

You grade the Thunder

A+
0
No votes
A
0
No votes
A-
0
No votes
B+
1
4%
B
6
26%
B-
2
9%
C+
4
17%
C
0
No votes
D
9
39%
F
1
4%
 
Total votes: 23

Andre Roberstan
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 10,527
And1: 6,865
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
Contact:
   

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#21 » by Andre Roberstan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:31 pm

bondom34 wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QYKAWZ05M[/youtube]
:nonono:


I still have a bit of a soft spot for Perk. He's like the basketball equivalent of a grapefruit knife or something...very specialized tool that you never use, but it works really well for one thing.

Plus I miss hearing him do pregame interviews.
Image
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#22 » by bondom34 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:32 pm

dbrandon wrote:I still have a bit of a soft spot for Perk. He's like the basketball equivalent of a grapefruit knife or something...very specialized tool that you never use, but it works really well for one thing.

Plus I miss hearing him do pregame interviews.

So do I, if they could have him back on a vet min deal to be in the locker room and never really play I'd love it, but man those plays happened so many times. Awesome person though and great teammate.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
WesleyExChiFan
Starter
Posts: 2,483
And1: 1,014
Joined: Jul 05, 2013
       

 

Post#23 » by WesleyExChiFan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:18 pm

Kanter will start and he should. I think Waiters should start too. That give you 5 guys on the floor who can shoot and get their own shot. Assuming KD can play all year without any issues, that's a VERY dangerous team.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#24 » by bondom34 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:19 pm

If Waiters starts, I reserve right to change my fandom.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
WesleyExChiFan
Starter
Posts: 2,483
And1: 1,014
Joined: Jul 05, 2013
       

 

Post#25 » by WesleyExChiFan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:22 pm

Also, Singler isn't a terrible deal. He's a bench shooter. 5 mil a year is the going rate. My bench would be DJ, Roberson/Morrow, Singler, Collison and Adams. That's a solid unit that shouldn't lose the lead for you. With the firepower available in the starting 5 this is going to be a hell of a team to face.
User avatar
djthesonicsfan
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,534
And1: 159
Joined: Aug 13, 2007
     

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#26 » by djthesonicsfan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:53 pm

Spoiler:
Chuck Texas wrote:PMOTT3's Review

Key losses:

N/A

Losses:

PJIII
Jeremy Lamb

Draft:

Cameron Payne

Loved the decision to go with Payne here. Felt like his range was #11-#15. Gives OKC a solid PG prospect to develop while still having a good back up in DJ Augustine.

Trades:

Lamb for Ridinour and 16' 2nd
PJIII and 19' 2nd for TPE

They basically just cut costs here and created roster spots. I felt like they sold a little low on Lamb though.I wanted to see if he would get some burn under Donovan this season but now he probably will under Clifford.

Free Agency:

Enes Kanter

I don't love that they matched the max offer given to Kanter by POR but they were in a position where they had to. When you have a top-3 player in the league who is set to be a FA next season where literally every team will be breathing down his neck trying to convince him to sign with them (looking at you Washington) then showing him you are all in to win a title is a MUST. It would have looked incredibly stupid on OKC's part had they let him walk.

Current Depth Chart: (rough version)

PG: WB/Augustine/Payne
SG: Morrow/Waiters
SF: KD/Singler/Roberson
PF: Ibaka/McGary/Novak
C: Kanter/Adams/Collison

Needs:

I haven't seen enough games of them together to reach a conclusion on how I feel about the Ibaka/Kanter experiment but if it doesn't look good mid season then im looking for a new center or starting Adams. I also feel they need a true SG/3-D SG. I would be extremely upset if it happens but if im Presti then im making a call to ATL for Kyle Korver's services and seeing what his asking price is. I also am a bit of a Debbie downer on Waiters so if he even shows slight flashes of being good then im trading him while i still can for hopefully some good value. Other than a real SG and perhaps a better center if Ibaka/Kanter can't co-exist I dont see any real glaring needs. Maybe a better defensive wing? Their biggest need of all is health though. They have two top 5 players in the league on their roster so if they can stay healthy i expect a top 3 seed at the very least.

Added Thoughts:

Mentioned it before to bondom but the only thing that I really really didn't like about OKC's off-season was firing Brooks in KD's contract year. Its way too risky and felt like a move they should have decided on 2-3 years ago. Im okay with the Kanter max because the orginazation is showing that they are now willing to pay to win. If everyone can stay healthy this team should finish with a top 3 seed imo.

Win/Loss Prediction: 59-23

Overall Grade: B-

I don't really know if Kanter is going to fit next to Ibaka yet but they were in no position to not match the max. I feel like they gave Singler too many years on his new deal but at least it will be really cheap. And I would have liked to see Lamb get more minutes under Donovan rather than be traded for just a 2nd. A lot of this is just nitpicking and minor stuff though, overall they had a good off-season with the exception of giving Brooks the boot (surprised he doesn't have a job yet btw).

Chuck Texas' Review:

Losses:

essentially nothing. Lamb and PJIII were teh biggest which tells you all you need to know.

Draft:

Cameron Payne

this was a guy linked to them for a long time and I think he was the BPA. I loved this pick for them. Augustin is a decent back-up for a year for Westbrook, but Payne gives them a guy with the potential to be more than that. I think ultimately Payne can be what Reggie Jackson was supposed to be. Having Payne on a rookie deal instead of the $12M or so they were rumored to have offered Jackson is a huge win especially considering their current cap situation.

Trades:

Couple salary dump moves:

Lamb for Rid (but also smartly got a TPE later for Ridnour just in case)
Jones cost them cash and a 2nd to dump.

Ideally they find a taker for Novak and possibly Waiters if their other options prove they can hold down the SG.

Free Agency:

Kanter -- too much money, but overpaying him is far better than losing him imo. I know he's a divisive player with his defensive woes, but I'd still have hope you can get something positive out of him. Ibaka and Durant playing alongside him I think will really help with that. I know people point to the 10 games he played with Ibaka and point out how bad that was defensively, but I just don't think you can reach any conclusions considering how little Kanter knew of the system plus all the constant lineup shuffling Brooks was having to do. Plus Durant's length and mobility adds another important defensive presence to that frontline.

Singler -- this contract was the one I really don't like. I felt like OKC could have signed a street free agent for the minimum who could have filled this role and considering the lux tax cost a ton less. I'm a fan of Singler--loved his game at Duke, but he's a min guy. baffled by this one.

Current Depth Chart:(guessing at C and SG)

Kanter/Adams/McGary
Ibaka/Collison/Novak
Durant/Singler
Roberson/Morrow/Waiters
Westbrook/Augustin/Payne (expect Payne to eventually be the number 2 and probably quickly)

Needs:

Not much. I'd love to see one more deal that lands them a full-time SG because I don't see any of their current options being more than about a 20 mpg player. I'd also like one more veteran defensive center. Other than that keep your stars healthy this year. Oh and find a dump for Novak by the deadline(unless you can include him a deal for a player you need)

Added Thoughts:

This is the most crucial year in the history of the Thunder franchise(not counting Sonics years). I think if OKC could win the title that Durant would never leave. The worst case scenario in that case would be him signing a 1 and 1 contract and OKC facing it again the next summer. So that's why I'm okay with the Kanter deal. I expect this team to be very motivated from the jump this year. I would not be shocked if they were the number 1 seed in the West. I liked the assistants they brought in around Donovan and I like that ownership has given Presti the resources to be more aggressive. They feel like one of 4-5 serious title contenders this year.

Win/loss Prediction: 61-21

Off-Season Grade: B+

Didn't lose a single player they cared about. Drafted the BPA in Payne. Dumped some dead money. Not consolidating at SG is the only real draw back and that may yet come this summer or during the season if one of the options doesn't seize the job.


edited just to include spoiler tag for the large quote -- Chuck

This is a good write up. Both of them. Thanks for the read.

I especially agree with PMOTT3 regarding health as the key need. Durant & Ibaka have to be 110% right from the start. And Chuck Texas also noted Donovan's progress building his staff is another critical point. Earning Durant's trust, managing "Trey", selecting starters at SG & C, managing rotations, keeping Augustine aligned/motivated while developing Payne, finding minutes for McGary, keeping a lid on Durant's free agency hysteria, learning NBA rosters & culture... all things easier said than done. Donovan and company have their work cut out for them.

As for dumping PJ3 & Lamb, there's been quite a bit of talk about last season's trio of discontent (ie Jackson, PJ3 & Lamb). Whatever the reason. Right or wrong. Now they are gone. Even if it cost us a couple of 2nds, which isn't a very big deal all things considered. Interesting to note Novak is still around. One could certainly make inferences regarding this outcome and Presti's opinion on the value of character.

I wasn't as enthusiastic about Payne at #14 as most others. Having said that I admit I wanted Gorgui Dieng instead of Adams and I thought McGary was just a dope smoker with a back issue. So I give Presti his due. He's gotten a lot of picks right over the years. And we won't really know about Payne for a year or so. But I was getting so amped about Winslow dropping I had crazy ideas about making a deal with Riley to swap #10 for #14. Even still, I would have just picked Justin Anderson at #14 because I think he will become that solid 3&D SG we need. But this is quickly getting into the weeds regarding this team's chances next season. Durant seems to be recovering, Donovan is building a solid staff and they cleaned out the locker room cancer. Check. Check. Check. I expect the team will be among those legitimately competing for a title next season. Looking forward to the start of training camp.
notSonics 2016
Starters - Trey, Roberson, KD, Ibaka, Adams
Rotation - Payne, Waiters, Green, McGary, Kanter
Bench - Collison, Christon, Brodgon, Huestis
Stash - Johnson, Abrine
Cut - Morrow
Trade - Singler
Draft - Brogdon
FA - Green
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#27 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:03 pm

Gave em a D. Maybe a C-, as I do like Donovan.

Anytime you can pay a guy 70m and openly question if he is your 2nd stringer, you didn't do something right. Maybe it was the best decision left when the choice was forced, but they set themselves up for that. Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.

Altogether they got:
-- No noticeable talent increase. Traded PJIII and Lamb for Payne and otherwise have the same roster.
-- Got more expensive.
-- Picked up a 2nd but sent out a good 2nd.

If I'm OKC I'm looking around like mad to go all in on this next year. With 2 conditional 1sts outstanding, and some monster new contracts to Durant and Westbrook (fingers crossed), it is time to push all in and get some upgrades in the Western conference arms race. OKC sat that out as far as I am concerned.

Maybe its not fair to burn them so hard for deals not done, but they missed out on deals not done. Could Lawson/Westbrook coexist? Could Bradley for Kanter S&T have been worked out if pushed aggressively? Could Denver have been moved off one of their wings (Chandler/Gallo)? I can make up more things, but OKC needed to find a way to get a Corey Brewer added to their squad and not just stand pat, and they didn't.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 92,611
And1: 98,958
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#28 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:43 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote: Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.




Disagree. If Payne plays a lot it means he beat out Augustin which can only be a good thing. It means you have a better player in your rotation than Augustin.*


*barring serious injury to Westbrook which is obviously not a good thing.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#29 » by bondom34 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:51 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:Gave em a D. Maybe a C-, as I do like Donovan.

Anytime you can pay a guy 70m and openly question if he is your 2nd stringer, you didn't do something right. Maybe it was the best decision left when the choice was forced, but they set themselves up for that. Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.

Altogether they got:
-- No noticeable talent increase. Traded PJIII and Lamb for Payne and otherwise have the same roster.
-- Got more expensive.
-- Picked up a 2nd but sent out a good 2nd.

If I'm OKC I'm looking around like mad to go all in on this next year. With 2 conditional 1sts outstanding, and some monster new contracts to Durant and Westbrook (fingers crossed), it is time to push all in and get some upgrades in the Western conference arms race. OKC sat that out as far as I am concerned.

Maybe its not fair to burn them so hard for deals not done, but they missed out on deals not done. Could Lawson/Westbrook coexist? Could Bradley for Kanter S&T have been worked out if pushed aggressively? Could Denver have been moved off one of their wings (Chandler/Gallo)? I can make up more things, but OKC needed to find a way to get a Corey Brewer added to their squad and not just stand pat, and they didn't.

I'd disagree on all the bold actually. McGary played a lot, and earned it. Adams the same, Roberson the same. If they're playing it just means they're playing well, and Payne is talented. His ceiling is certainly better than what DJ is, so if he replaces him this year I'd be thrilled.

For the talent point they got KD back (hopefully for the whole year) and he hasn't even played with any of the new guys, at this point there wasn't really any room for more roster turnover. You're already figuring out how to work him with Kanter, plus getting Singler, DJ, possibly/probably Payne integrated, and getting guys who hardly played with him in Dion and McGary used to it.

For the trades not done, I don't think there was anything there. I mean unless someone's dying to trade for Waiters they hold nothing of value that's movable. I wouldn't be happy if it was McGary for any of the guys you mentioned, I really don't like the fit of Lawson, and a sign and trade of Kanter needed a big coming back and required a team wanting Kanter. I mean you can dock everyone for trades not done especially if they weren't even rumored.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
Village Idiot
General Manager
Posts: 9,507
And1: 2,215
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain
   

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#30 » by Village Idiot » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:50 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:Gave em a D. Maybe a C-, as I do like Donovan.

Anytime you can pay a guy 70m and openly question if he is your 2nd stringer, you didn't do something right. Maybe it was the best decision left when the choice was forced, but they set themselves up for that. Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.

Altogether they got:
-- No noticeable talent increase. Traded PJIII and Lamb for Payne and otherwise have the same roster.
-- Got more expensive.
-- Picked up a 2nd but sent out a good 2nd.

If I'm OKC I'm looking around like mad to go all in on this next year. With 2 conditional 1sts outstanding, and some monster new contracts to Durant and Westbrook (fingers crossed), it is time to push all in and get some upgrades in the Western conference arms race. OKC sat that out as far as I am concerned.

Maybe its not fair to burn them so hard for deals not done, but they missed out on deals not done. Could Lawson/Westbrook coexist? Could Bradley for Kanter S&T have been worked out if pushed aggressively? Could Denver have been moved off one of their wings (Chandler/Gallo)? I can make up more things, but OKC needed to find a way to get a Corey Brewer added to their squad and not just stand pat, and they didn't.
I agree with this assessment. They squandered their big opportunity to consolidate assets. If any lottery team should have traded its pick it is the Thunder. Drafting a third string PG is not going get this team over the top or convince Durant to stick around. They sorely need a 3+D shooting guard and a veteran center and got neither.
"There are no right answers to wrong questions." - Ursula K. Le Guin
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#31 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:35 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote: Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.




Disagree. If Payne plays a lot it means he beat out Augustin which can only be a good thing. It means you have a better player in your rotation than Augustin.*


*barring serious injury to Westbrook which is obviously not a good thing.


Westbrook should be logging 38 mpg.

Payne getting the remaining 10 mpg as backup pg isn't big minutes. And if Payne is playing next to Westbrook, it is just a testament that the sg rotation sucks.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#32 » by bondom34 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:43 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Chuck Texas wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote: Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.




Disagree. If Payne plays a lot it means he beat out Augustin which can only be a good thing. It means you have a better player in your rotation than Augustin.*


*barring serious injury to Westbrook which is obviously not a good thing.


Westbrook should be logging 38 mpg.
Payne getting the remaining 10 mpg as backup pg isn't big minutes. And if Payne is playing next to Westbrook, it is just a testament that the sg rotation sucks.

This is entirely unrealistic, no human can do this and actually remain effective come postseason. He should be around 33-4. And the remaining 14-5 minutes being used with Payne playing 10 there and 5 at SG would be pretty big rotation minutes.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#33 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:49 pm

bondom34 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Gave em a D. Maybe a C-, as I do like Donovan.

Anytime you can pay a guy 70m and openly question if he is your 2nd stringer, you didn't do something right. Maybe it was the best decision left when the choice was forced, but they set themselves up for that. Payne is an interesting prospect, but if he plays a lot it is a bad sign.

Altogether they got:
-- No noticeable talent increase. Traded PJIII and Lamb for Payne and otherwise have the same roster.
-- Got more expensive.
-- Picked up a 2nd but sent out a good 2nd.

If I'm OKC I'm looking around like mad to go all in on this next year. With 2 conditional 1sts outstanding, and some monster new contracts to Durant and Westbrook (fingers crossed), it is time to push all in and get some upgrades in the Western conference arms race. OKC sat that out as far as I am concerned.

Maybe its not fair to burn them so hard for deals not done, but they missed out on deals not done. Could Lawson/Westbrook coexist? Could Bradley for Kanter S&T have been worked out if pushed aggressively? Could Denver have been moved off one of their wings (Chandler/Gallo)? I can make up more things, but OKC needed to find a way to get a Corey Brewer added to their squad and not just stand pat, and they didn't.

I'd disagree on all the bold actually. McGary played a lot, and earned it. Adams the same, Roberson the same. If they're playing it just means they're playing well, and Payne is talented. His ceiling is certainly better than what DJ is, so if he replaces him this year I'd be thrilled.

For the talent point they got KD back (hopefully for the whole year) and he hasn't even played with any of the new guys, at this point there wasn't really any room for more roster turnover. You're already figuring out how to work him with Kanter, plus getting Singler, DJ, possibly/probably Payne integrated, and getting guys who hardly played with him in Dion and McGary used to it.

For the trades not done, I don't think there was anything there. I mean unless someone's dying to trade for Waiters they hold nothing of value that's movable. I wouldn't be happy if it was McGary for any of the guys you mentioned, I really don't like the fit of Lawson, and a sign and trade of Kanter needed a big coming back and required a team wanting Kanter. I mean you can dock everyone for trades not done especially if they weren't even rumored.


Replied above on Payne. I think he can be a great prospect, but with OKC"s roster if he is playing a lot there either was an injury or their sg rotation is all kinda of horrid to make a 2 pg lineup with a rookie pg make sense.

OKC already had KD. Sure, he should play more and the team should have more success than last year, but a lot of the other top teams added talent not just (hoped for) health. SAS, LAC and HOU are better on paper than how they finished last season imo. GS similarly flat lined on paper to OKC (Looney for Lee), but they also just won the ring. Put another way, if I look back on June odds, did OKC become more of a favorite to win the chip this year or not this offseason? If the answer is not any more likely, I don't think that is a great answer considering how much more expensive they got. Or how much closer to Durant's fa.

I loved the Donovan move because it was time to make a move. I think roster-wise OKC had a move to pull of that they didn't do. Again, nothing Earth shattering was needed, but someone like Avery Bradley, Corey Brewer, etc would have pushed a ho hum C into a solid B+. Instead, I'm docking it down to a D. Might be harsh, but the stakes are so high that unimpressed and C- didn't feel like it conveyed how much I felt they should have tried to impress.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#34 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:55 pm

bondom34 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Chuck Texas wrote:

Disagree. If Payne plays a lot it means he beat out Augustin which can only be a good thing. It means you have a better player in your rotation than Augustin.*


*barring serious injury to Westbrook which is obviously not a good thing.


Westbrook should be logging 38 mpg.
Payne getting the remaining 10 mpg as backup pg isn't big minutes. And if Payne is playing next to Westbrook, it is just a testament that the sg rotation sucks.

This is entirely unrealistic, no human can do this and actually remain effective come postseason. He should be around 33-4. And the remaining 14-5 minutes being used with Payne playing 10 there and 5 at SG would be pretty big rotation minutes.


17 players played 38 or more mpg in the playoffs. (Another 6 players played 37-38 minutes.) Westbrook and Durant should both be in that category next summer.

So, it comes down to that you are getting 10 pg minutes from Payne and if you are getting 5 sg minutes, it is because your 1st and 2nd string sg's aren't what they should be.

{And yeah, I'm fine with him not playing a full 38 in the regular season when only Jimmy Butler was ran into the ground. But those extra 4 minutes in the regular season probably go to Augustin anyway.}
damecurry
General Manager
Posts: 9,300
And1: 1,517
Joined: May 19, 2014
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#35 » by damecurry » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:18 am

A B is the right grade, there's no question really. They drafted well and kept the guy that they gave a 1st and took a gamble on that they desperately needed to keep. This off-season for them wasn't great but they did they're job.

Now if you were grading their trades from last season before the trade deadline, that **** deserves an F imo. Got the exact opposite kind of players they needed to fill around their 2 stars, both of whom are solid but not spectacular and are expiring at the time when everyone has tons of cap-space guaranteeing they'll be massively over-paid. Kanter isn't worth close to this, which is why they never should have traded a 1st for him because he was always going to get this kind of money.
nykballa2k4
RealGM
Posts: 31,074
And1: 7,443
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Kurt Rhombus is managing the defense...
       

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#36 » by nykballa2k4 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:28 am

Gave a C+. Greatest addition was not losing anyone with a large role. Still think PJ3 and Lamb were worth more than they got back.
Numbers don't lie, people who use them do
Stand up to all hate
Stand up to Jewish hate
User avatar
MoneyTalks41890
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,787
And1: 25,082
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#37 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:39 am

I'm not sure what these grand opportunities that OKC didn't take advantage of were? The stuff I was proposing on here revolved around Lamb and PJ having some value, which I was clearly proven wrong about, so minus a deal with McGary or the lotto pick there wasn't much to be done. And I'm glad they didn't panic and do something with either of those pieces. I'd still like to see a deal with Novak and Waiters for Mayo, but there's not much else that might have even been on the table. Open to being proven wrong if someone can point to a missed opportunity.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#38 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:59 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I'm not sure what these grand opportunities that OKC didn't take advantage of were? The stuff I was proposing on here revolved around Lamb and PJ having some value, which I was clearly proven wrong about, so minus a deal with McGary or the lotto pick there wasn't much to be done. And I'm glad they didn't panic and do something with either of those pieces. I'd still like to see a deal with Novak and Waiters for Mayo, but there's not much else that might have even been on the table. Open to being proven wrong if someone can point to a missed opportunity.


Atlanta got Splitter for cap space, and Dallas got Zaza for the same. Either of those would have done wonders, but so would have Barnes also gotten for cap space.

So, instead of Lamb + PJIII + 2nd for a 2nd and nothing, OKC could have tried to have done that and gotten Zaza or Barnes (especially that one since that almost happened but they choose not to).

So, there are 2 guys that were possible and I like as rotation buffs. Neither would be my first choice, and I do think some of the better fits could have been pried, admittedly at a cost that you might not have liked.
User avatar
Laimbeer
RealGM
Posts: 43,072
And1: 15,154
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Location: Cabin Creek
     

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#39 » by Laimbeer » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 am

Can someone explain why OKC "had to" match the Kanter deal? They've got an excellent three man rotation of young bigs.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts -
1) It's less than the MLE
2) He can be traded later
3) It's only __% of the cap
4) The cap is going up
5) It's only __ years
6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
User avatar
165bows
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,161
And1: 15,023
Joined: Jan 03, 2013
Location: The land of incremental improvement.

Re: PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: OKC Thunder 

Post#40 » by 165bows » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:06 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:
If I'm OKC I'm looking around like mad to go all in on this next year. With 2 conditional 1sts outstanding, and some monster new contracts to Durant and Westbrook (fingers crossed), it is time to push all in and get some upgrades in the Western conference arms race. OKC sat that out

For the talent point they got KD back (hopefully for the whole year) and he hasn't even played with any of the new guys, at this point there wasn't really any room for more roster turnover. You're already figuring out how to work him with Kanter, plus getting Singler, DJ, possibly/probably Payne integrated, and getting guys who hardly played with him in Dion

Replied above on Payne. I think he can be a great prospect, but with OKC"s roster if he is playing a lot there either was an injury or their sg rotation is all kinda of horrid to make a 2 pg lineup with a rookie pg make sense.

OKC already had KD. Sure, he should play more and the team should have more success than last year, but a lot of the other top teams added talent not just (hoped for) health. SAS, LAC and HOU are better on paper than how they finished last season imo. GS similarly flat lined on paper to OKC (Looney for Lee), but they also just won the ring. Put another way, if I look back on June odds, did OKC become more of a favorite to win the chip this year or not this offseason? If the answer is not any more likely, I don't think that is a great answer considering how much more expensive they got. Or how much closer to Durant's fa.

I loved the Donovan move because it was time to make a move. I think roster-wise OKC had a move to pull of that they didn't do. Again, nothing Earth shattering was needed, but someone like Avery Bradley, Corey Brewer, etc would have pushed a ho hum C into a solid B+. Instead, I'm docking it down to a D. Might be harsh, but the stakes are so high that unimpressed and C- didn't feel like it conveyed how much I felt they should have tried to impress.

Agree, the off season doesn't look as bad because they already have top talent. But considering the potential that it could all leave in the next two years, the last six months seemed really lacking in cohesiveness.

Starting a key year with a brand new staff, didn't solve the SG rotation, and recently burned the picks they could use to make future trades. Also picked up a bunch of salary that limits flexibility and got a net negative for two past first rounders on rookie contracts.

Kind of docking them for the last few months rather than just the season, but seems like they missed an opportunity to really put pressure on the rest of the league and instead just hurt their own flexibility.

Still a strong top four team which is crazy.

Return to Trades and Transactions