Greatest Blazers Ever: Vote for #1

PDXKnight · Post #21 » by **PDXKnight** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:37 am

My vote goes to Bill Walton. As others have said he was he best player on a championship team and brought us our lone title. As much as I like Clyde I cannot justify putting him above walton

Masterfully · Post #22 » by **Masterfully** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:28 am

JasonStern wrote:fine. even though Drexler needs no explanation,

I agree completely, just wanted to make sure your vote counted since I happen to share your opinion.

Post #23 » by **mojomarc** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:04 am

Vote Bill Walton

Sorry Clyde: being the leader of a championship team, winning the Finals and following season's MVP count 10x more than longevity or other stats. If only Cliffy hadn't dropped the ball against the Lakers so you could have won a Finals with Portland I probably would have voted 22. But I have to go 32 instead.

CharlesOakley · Post #24 » by **CharlesOakley** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:22 am

Vote: Bill Walton

Most complete player I ever saw play the game when he was healthy. He could literally dominate every aspect of the game.

Post #25 » by **Moonbeam** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:16 am

A classic peak vs. longevity debate, accolades vs. stats debate, and rings debate all in one!

I'm going to post some WOWY (with or without you) statistics for these guys, including the effect of homecourt advantage as well as playoff games, but not controlling for other players missing games.

Drexler:

Code: Select all

Season  G With G Without SRS With SRS Without SRS Diff
----------------------------------------------------------
1985       89       2      2.64      -3.42      6.06
1986       79       7      0.37       0.62     -0.25
1988       85       1      3.51      -9.21     12.72
1989       81       4      0.76       0.64      0.12
1990       94       9      5.99       0.25      5.74
1992       97       6      7.77      -0.06      7.83
1993       52      34      2.71       3.13     -0.42
1994       72      14      2.41       2.50     -0.09
1995       41      44      6.79       0.08      6.71

Walton:

Code: Select all

Season  G With G Without SRS With SRS Without SRS Diff
----------------------------------------------------------
1975       35      47     -2.10       1.89     -3.99
1976       51      31      0.75      -3.91      4.67
1977       84      17      7.45      -1.99      9.43
1978       60      28      8.90      -1.78     10.67

Obviously these are small sample sizes (especially for some Drexler seasons), and this does not take into account that a player's impact can hinge also on how dependent the coach is on that player, roster makeup (i.e. quality of backups), etc., but I think it's interesting nonetheless. Walton's numbers are likely more reliable due to bigger sample sizes, and his impact from 1977-78 was obviously huge (and led Portland to a title).

Leaning strongly toward Drexler because I think he led contending teams in a tougher era and he has an obvious durability/longevity edge, but willing to listen to other arguments for Walton.

RTG HD · Post #26 » by **RTG HD** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:39 am

Vote: Danny Young
Because the shot was before the **** buzzer.

Post #27 » by **Moonbeam** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:48 am

For me, I think it's important to acknowledge the role of chance in this. I don't think the best team always wins in the NBA - I think I saw a simulation study at basketball-reference which had the best team winning less than half the time. Drexler leading a strong contender for 3 straight years holds a lot of weight. Had the Blazers won that tight game 6 in the 1991 WCF, who knows how things may have panned out. They also had the misfortune of playing in the Finals against a seasoned Piston team in 1990 and a historically good Bulls team in 1992.

The league in 1977 was very unpredictable (it was throughout the 70s, but especially right after the merger). Portland came out of nowhere to be the best team in the league, clearly so when Walton was healthy. They had a dream postseason run, but a couple of the teams they beat had some serious questions. The Lakers were a paper tiger despite Kareem's brilliance - that team was a combustible mess throughout the late 70s. Philly had not been relevant for awhile, and Dr. J had to contend with some selfish players. He had just completed one of the most dominant seasons in recent memory with the Nets in 1976, and he was relegated to the 1B at best role behind George McGinnis. They eventually got rid of guys like McGinnis and World B. Free and were able to contend from 1980-83. Still, you can only play the teams in front of you, but I think the Blazers in 1977 had an easier road than the Blazers of the early 90s.

RTG HD · Post #28 » by **RTG HD** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:08 am

Did my Alaa Abdelnaby post get deleted? I blame Spykes! :p

Post #29 » by **Moonbeam** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:10 am

RTG HD wrote:Did my Alaa Abdelnaby post get deleted? I blame Spykes! :p

Not by me! I was kind of scared of him when he was with the Blazers. I'd never delete an Alaa post for the off-chance that he reads this board, hunts me down as the culprit, and I pay the consequences. :ouch:

zzaj · Post #30 » by **zzaj** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:52 am

Moonbeam wrote:
zzaj wrote:vote: Bill Walton

Please provide an explanation for your choice, and I'll be happy to count it!

As many have said, he was the catalyst player on the Championship team. Without Walton = no Portland title. Clyde is the most heralded Blazer but he never won it all.

Also, Sabonis is my favorite Blazer of all time.

Post #31 » by **Moonbeam** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:49 am

zzaj wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:
zzaj wrote:vote: Bill Walton

Please provide an explanation for your choice, and I'll be happy to count it!

As many have said, he was the catalyst player on the Championship team. Without Walton = no Portland title. Clyde is the most heralded Blazer but he never won it all.

Also, Sabonis is my favorite Blazer of all time.

Thanks!

Current votes:

Bill Walton (11): d-train, PDX MM, TheEnforcer20, Wizenheimer, zzaj, DaVoiceMaster, SalemStoner, mikhail1991, Oden2, mojomarc, CharlesOakley

Clyde Drexler (4): JasonStern, Masterfully, BuckyP, a_sensei

Alaa AbdelnabyDanny Young (1): RTG HD

Run PDX · Post #32 » by **Run PDX** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:39 pm

Walton is the easiest #1 pick for this team. He was the best player on our best team, he would have been an all time great center if it weren't for his feet, and he wasn't a total jerk (like the player who got the second most votes in this forum).

zzaj · Post #33 » by **zzaj** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:17 pm

This thread is begging for a hijack (sorry Mods):

Which team wins a 7 game series played at Memorial Coliseum?

Clyde's early 90s team vs. Walton's 70s team

Walton/Jones
Lucas/Neal
Gross/Corky
Steele/Gilliam
Hollins/Twardzik

vs.

Duckworth/Cooper
Williams/Abdelnaby
Kersey/Cliffy
Clyde/Ainge
Porter/Pack

PDX MM · Post #34 » by **PDX MM** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:46 pm

zzaj wrote:This thread is begging for a hijack (sorry Mods):

Which team wins a 7 game series played at Memorial Coliseum?

Clyde's early 90s team vs. Walton's 70s team

Tough call to me but I think I would give the edge to the 70's team. The 90's team would have no answer for Walton while Steele & Twardzik would fair ok defending Clyde. Hollins and Porter are about equal, Kersey over Gross but not by much, Lucas battling with Williams would have been awesome to watch though I would favor Luke. The 90's teams had a better bench but the 70's teams had a better coach. I say it would go 7 games.

d-train · Post #35 » by **d-train** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:35 am

The 70's team was the best because Walton was the best player in the NBA. The 90's team wasn't the best. They got to the finals twice but they never got close to winning.

Post #36 » by **mojomarc** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:53 am

RTG HD wrote:Vote: Danny Young
Because the shot was before the **** buzzer.

Was at that game. I sure thought it was in.

But if we are going for more obscure Blazers I'll have to change my vote to Ha Seung-jin.

OT: I am going to Seoul this fall. I totally need to bring a Ha jersey for the "fans around the World" bit Mike and Mike do.

Soulyss · Post #37 » by **Soulyss** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:51 am

Vote: Bill Walton

It's all about rings, and he has one.

jeffhardyfan52 · Post #38 » by **jeffhardyfan52** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:45 am

VoteBill Walton
He has the Ring
He was the MVP
probably would of repeated if he didn't get hurt in 77-78.
Also my mom went skinny dipping with him in 1974

Post #39 » by **Moonbeam** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:47 am

Vote: Clyde Drexler

I'm not convinced that Clyde would not have been able to win a title in the same context Walton had in 1977. I think Walton had a higher peak, but Drexler maintained it for a fair amount longer. I think 33,122 minutes of Clyde is worth more than 7,837 minutes of Walton, even though I do take peak into account in my evaluation (and playoff performance as well).

skoharry · Post #40 » by **skoharry** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:21 am

VOTE - clyde drexler
clyde has one of the longer times playing as a blazer and helped us get to the playoffs numerous times. plus he made everyone else better on the team