Why do the Jays barely score runs with Dickey pitching?

[trick]

Let me preface saying I used to be a huge fan of the Jays before the early 90's lockout. Since then I following box scores and read articles, but I can not stomach sitting through 9 innings of baseball since then. I'll probably watch them if they're playing the game at the local gym but I don't keep track that much.

With that said, why do the Jays barely produce any runs when Dickey is pitching? With Hutch they tend to score 5+ since Hutch gives up that much each game. With the reincarnation of Buerhle since 13-14 they still produce over 5+ runs while Buerhle keeps the opposition in check. Yada yada yada with Estrada and whomever the 5th SP is.

Is there a correlation with Dickey's pitching style and how his slow pace somehow makes the offensive cold? Is this the norm for knuckleballers?

[Santoki]

There is zero correlation with how Dickey pitches and how our offense performs. It's purely coincidence.

/thread

[BigLeagueChew]

He's just always matched against a good pitcher but has still pitched well his last 6 starts.

[Fairview4Life]

Opposing pitchers so far.

Michael Pineda
Jake Odorizzi
Alex Wood
Drew Smyly
Rick Porcello
Chase Whitley
Clay Buckholz x3
Dallas Keuchel
Matt Shoemaker
John Danks
Jordan Zimmermann
Collin McHugh
Bartolo Colon
Chris Archer
David Price
Jeff Samardzija
Erasmo Ramirez

[LLJ]

Cuz everyone on the team wants him gone

[wtcantfw]

Knuckleball effect.

[agk47]

Wilner always refers to dickey as being a "weird dude", I never quite understood what he means.

Don't know if it relates but,

I noticed a long time ago, the rest of the team seems out of rhythm when dickey pitches. There's definitely seems to be some bad mojo there; the teams energy and focus is off when dickeys on the mound. They all just seem down, like they've lost half a step.

[Boogie!]

hes clearly a locker room cancer and everyone the team hates him.

[agk47]

hes clearly a locker room cancer and everyone the team hates him.

Seriously, this isn't the raptors board.

It's noticble, the team scuffles, hangs there heads, fidgits, and all around lack energy when dickey pitches.


I totally agree with the op, no idea why, but it just looks like the whole team can't wait to get off the field.

[Santoki]

hes clearly a locker room cancer and everyone the team hates him.

Seriously, this isn't the raptors board.

It's noticble, the team scuffles, hangs there heads, fidgits, and all around lack energy when dickey pitches.


I totally agree with the op, no idea why, but it just looks like the whole team can't wait to get off the field.

Apparently this is the Raptors board with a complete nonsense post like this.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

hes clearly a locker room cancer and everyone the team hates him.

Seriously, this isn't the raptors board.

It's noticble, the team scuffles, hangs there heads, fidgits, and all around lack energy when dickey pitches.


I totally agree with the op, no idea why, but it just looks like the whole team can't wait to get off the field.

Please tell me you're joking

[agk47]

Yup I stand behind what I said, the teams body language is very down when dickeys on the mound.watch for it yourself, or go to a game he's pitching at, the whole vibe is off. You can even see it in the crowd, the energy in the building is literally off. Just look the players in the eye and watch how they carry themselves, it is clearly different when dickeys pitching.

I don't think it's a person thing against dickey, maybe it's more of a timing thing, but the energy in the building is nonexistent when he pitches.

I find it strange more people haven't noticed it tbh.

By the way santaki, cool job on those 5000+ posts!

[Santoki]

Yup I stand behind what I said, the teams body language is very down when dickeys on the mound.watch for it yourself, or go to a game he's pitching at, the whole vibe is off. You can even see it in the crowd, the energy in the building is literally off. Just look the players in the eye and watch how they carry themselves, it is clearly different when dickeys pitching.

I don't think it's a person thing against dickey, maybe it's more of a timing thing, but the energy in the building is nonexistent when he pitches.

I find it strange more people haven't noticed it tbh.

By the way santaki, cool job on
those 5000+ posts!

Schad, I think we found our next tribute.

[BigLeagueChew]

Dickey might effect the crowd noise or the atmosphere differently than other pitchers but that has nothing to do with a lack of runs scored while he pitches. Like,.. the Jays give up several runs when Hutch pitches road starts, but he's a good guy and his teammates love him, so that's why they score runs for him!

[trick]

Sigh, not insinuating that Dickey is a cancer to the team or that his teammates hate him so they lose on purpose. As an observer of the Jays I was just asking a simple question as to why the Jays can't produce their average runs scored when Dickey pitches making his 4-10 W/L record pretty artificial as opposed to someone like Hutch who has Cy Young-like W/L but has an ERA 5+. Just thought there would be some correlation between knuckleball pitchers and low run counts for the team they pitch for.

Sorry for polluting your board with an innocent question.

[agk47]

Ya It's definitely not a personal indictment of dickey, for anyone to misread this thread as that, it probably speaks more to the readers pov than anything. Although I am still taken aback as to why wilner still takes every opportunity he can to call dickey a "weird dude".

Hutch is a great example in regards to what I was saying about it being a timing issue. hutch throws his fb slider combo about 93% of the time, and has an era of close to 9 on the road, yet the team is always on the tip of their toes and provide league leading run support for him.

But for some reason dickey and that "knuckleball affect" leaves the players flat footed and the crowd silent. This has been going on for two years.

Anyone who has dealt with a group dynamic knows different people inspire different results. Dickey clearly leaves his teammates flat footed.

[agk47]

Sigh, not insinuating that Dickey is a cancer to the team or that his teammates hate him so they lose on purpose. As an observer of the Jays I was just asking a simple question as to why the Jays can't produce their average runs scored when Dickey pitches making his 4-10 W/L record pretty artificial as opposed to someone like Hutch who has Cy Young-like W/L but has an ERA 5+. Just thought there would be some correlation between knuckleball pitchers and low run counts for the team they pitch for.

Sorry for polluting your board with an innocent question.

Great post.


My response to your query, sorry it's not math or spreadsheet related, just based on real world experience and good sense.


anyone with any life skills, observational skills or general awareness can see the team responds differently to dickey then the rest of the players.

You don't have to apologize to these clowns. .... But seriously what's his fwar?


Honestly, I haven't used this forum much because anytime I do clowns with a spreadsheet act like they are all knowing, but usually just come off as ignorant and bullish.

Last time I was here, a certain esteemed poster, tried telling me that Esteban loaiza for Michael young was a good trade because loiaza had accrued more war over his career than young. My response: you just explained the failings of war as a stat....... Apparently my posts were none sense that day as well.

[Duffman100]

Yup I stand behind what I said, the teams body language is very down when dickeys on the mound.watch for it yourself, or go to a game he's pitching at, the whole vibe is off. You can even see it in the crowd, the energy in the building is literally off. Just look the players in the eye and watch how they carry themselves, it is clearly different when dickeys pitching.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[agk47]

hes clearly a locker room cancer and everyone the team hates him.

Seriously, this isn't the raptors board.

It's noticble, the team scuffles, hangs there heads, fidgits, and all around lack energy when dickey pitches.


I totally agree with the op, no idea why, but it just looks like the whole team can't wait to get off the field.

Apparently this is the Raptors board with a complete nonsense post like this.

My apologies to boogie, as I recognized his comment as sarcasm. It reminded me of the over reacting on the raps board. With a name like boogie chances are he's an nba fan. Sorry if my sarcastic response fell flat with some.

As for teriyaki pants here. I don't know you. But your self righteous, callous run down of people on this board is in itself nonsense . It serves no benefit to this forum or conversation and clearly in this circumstance demonstrates a lack of real world understanding and people skills in general-- as in empathy, as in understanding what your fellow man is going through just by looking at them. These are things that don't show up on a spreadsheet. Your comments have served no benefit to the conversation at hand or this board in General. Which in itself, one might characterize as none sense.

Just my two sense.

Great point op, I wonder if there is a correlation between pace of game and knuckleballers. But your opinion will only be real if it is corroborated by a spreadsheet. Because bAseball is NOT a cerebral game, it's actually played on spreadsheets-- that's your did you know moment of the day folks!

Seriously though, Thanks op for posting this topic, I thought it had so much merit, I actually decided to post for the first time in years. Too bad we couldn't get a decent exchange going. Appreciate the effort nonetheless.

[jaymeister15]

My response to your query, sorry it's not math or spreadsheet related, just based on real world experience and good sense any life skills, observational skills or general awareness can see the team responds differently to dickey then the rest of the players.

You don't have to apologize to these clowns. .... But seriously what's his fwar?


Honestly, I haven't used this forum much because anytime I do clowns with a spreadsheet act like they are all knowing, but usually just come off as ignorant and bullish.

The problem is you are coming off as all knowing and ignorant and are just flat out wrong. The reason is a combination of bad luck and going against better than average pitchers most of his starts.

Your observational skills and general awareness aren't quite as strong as you thought they were

All you have to do is look back one year. Dickey had average run support of 4.74 last year, 2nd on the team and 12th highest in the American League. Hutch, for example, had run support of 3.88, last on the team and 7th worst in the American League.

Did the team suddenly decide over the summer they feel different playing while dickey was pitching or whatever bs you're trying to pass off as fact here?