How many games will BRK win this season?

[Prokorov]

he can shoot, but doe she really help our shooting woes? dwill played 30+ mpg and is out of the lineup with jack a non shooter replacing him.

how many minutes does ellington play, and if he does, its likely impalce of bogs one of our few shooters anyhow

I can see Ellington getting some decent playing time as he attempts to fill AA's shoes. The issue here is that none of the PGs can shoot threes consistently.

This argument about shooting is just ridiculous.

Jack, JJ, Bogs, Ellington, Barg, Larkin, Karasev, and Boatright can shoot. Are they GREAT shooters? NO but not every team has Korver.

jack is not a good 3 point shooter

bogs and jj are good 3 point shooters

thad and brook are not good 3 point shooters

it is irrelevant that boatright and karasev can shoot, since they wont play much (boatright) or would be replacing a bogs/jj (karasev)

our problem is we are going constantly have 3-4 guys on the floor who dont shoot it from 3. having reserves or 3rd string guys who can shoot doesnt help when your starters are gettignn 30+ minutes and throw out a lineup that doesnt shoot well.

Further, we have 3 guys who LOVE taking long 2's, and 2 of them shoot it under 40%. thats bad.

im sure if we threw out a lineup of boatright, ellington, karasev, bargani we;d shoot the lights out but you cant play those guys 30 minutes

we dont need korver, but having 3 starters who cant shoot is bad

[NyCeEvO]

The bottom line is that the only way the Nets win more than 40 games is if they play the most cohesive brand of team defense in the history of the franchise.

The Finals Nets teams were good defensive teams because they had Kidd and Martin leading the way and Collins was at least a solid man-to-man post defender.

This current team doesn't have the talent the former ones did. The Nets really need to buckle down and buy in defensively in order for them to have a shot at the playoffs. In the past, they've won simply because of talent, not because consistent effort and determination. Now that they have less talent than before, they're going to need every bit of effort just to be competitive.

Expecting 30-34 wins is realistic to me. If they have a better record than thatt, it means at least one of the players improved significantly during the offseason and Hollins has really gotten them to play like one unit.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah, if your PG can't shoot, your SG/SF/PF have to be able to shoot, at least two being able to hit threes and one being able to hit midrange shots at a consistent clip.

every line up that I can come up with provides either bad spacing or bad defense.

[Prokorov]

Well, D-Will was bricking threes all season long so I'm sure Larkin and Jack can fill his shoes admirably.

he shot 37% from 3 last season. and other then the month he was injured (february) he shot it at a high clip each month:

overall he was a giant bag of suck, but shooting 3s was the one thing he did well. i think when you look position by position, the 3 point shooting problem becomes very appearant.

probable starters...


jack(poor)
bogs (good)
Johnson(good)
Young (poor)
Lopez(doesnt take them)

3/5 guys either dont shoot 3s well or dont take them. those guys all likely play 30 mpg

probably second unit

Larkin (poor - someone said he was good but i dont think 30% is good)
Ellington/Brown (good/poor)
RHJ (poor)
Trob (doesnt take them)
Bargs (good)

so thats 3 or 4 out of 5 guys who shoot it poor(dependong on if brown or ellington is getting burn).

we have no shooting at the point gaurd spot. and no range shooting from the front court except for bargs who in the other thread no one wanted playing more then 10 minutes because he is a liabiltiy with a bigger role.

having 5-6 guys who shoot is good, but if they all play wing then it doesnt help. we will absolutely be one of the worst 3 point shooting teams again

[Prokorov]

The bottom line is that the only way the Nets win more than 40 games is if they play the most cohesive brand of team defense in the history of the franchise.

The Finals Nets teams were good defensive teams because they had Kidd and Martin leading the way and Collins was at least a solid man-to-man post defender.

This current team doesn't have the talent the former ones did. The Nets really need to buckle down and buy in defensively in order for them to have a shot at the playoffs. In the past, they've won simply because of talent, not because consistent effort and determination. Now that they have less talent than before, they're going to need every bit of effort just to be competitive.

Expecting 30-34 wins is realistic to me. If they have a better record than thatt, it means at least one of the players improved significantly during the offseason and Hollins has really gotten them to play like one unit.

yea, the only way i see us winning 40+ game is if larkin/boatright wins the starting gig and are pests defensively, RHJ looks like a young paul geroge early on, and brook plays all season like he did the last 6 weeks of last year.

or, obviously a trade that brought in a legit starter at PG.

i dont see a defensive identitiy with Jack starting and a front court of thad/brook. i think wehave some guys who can be excellent defenders (brown/RHJ) but i dont see them getting enough time to make us some excellent defensive team

[Prokorov]

Yeah, if your PG can't shoot, your SG/SF/PF have to be able to shoot, at least two being able to hit threes and one being able to hit midrange shots at a consistent clip.

every line up that I can come up with provides either bad spacing or bad defense.

thats the crux of it. it always boils down to not enough 2 way players.

[Keith Van Horn]

You always have to look at past season stats. But remember, there's the factor that guys can have an above average year from their past stats. Here's my hope for lineups/shooters:

Larkin - average (I have high hopes for him that he can break out under Hollins. A lot of us should be rooting for him b/c he can really help this franchise out if he turns out to be even an average PG. My hope is that he averages something like 12/6 this season... which would be doubling his points and assists per game from last season on an all-time **** Knicks team)

Bogs - good. Got to hope he breaks out in his second year and shoots around 38-42% for the year.

Johnson - good. Hopefully the "happiest man in the locker room" will show it and be the leader this team needs this year.

Thad - decent enough...won't be taking most of the shots in this lineup but will hopefully be driving to the basket and getting 2nd chance points.

Lopez - good... 2s only. Never want to see him taking 3s. He showed a lot of promise last year at the end of the year and I want him to stick to that formula.



Then off the bench, Jack is not a 3 pt threat but he can score. Ellington and Bargs are the 3 pt guys, then RHJ and TRob play defense and get boards.

[MrDollarBills]

Hm....the Williams/Brown/Johnson/Thad/Lopez only had two shooters(Deron and Joe) and they were our best line up all year.

Jack/Bogs/Joe/Thad/Brook might not be that bad? Defensively that line up is horrible

[Starski]

30-33 If tradegy strikes. 40-45 If we click on all cylinders.


It'll come down to health, chemistry, and how Hollins utilizes our players/rotations.... We have a lot of diffrent options we can use at SG?Sf depending upon our needs....Hollins NEEDS to capitalize on that.

[Ror1997]

I don't see how Bogs and Joe can start together. I think Brown will start in the first few months alongside whoever is proving to be the better shooter so far between Joe and Bogs. Eventually RHJ will slide into SF and then Joe/Bogs whoever is starting at that point gets moved to SG. Markel really needs a 3 point shot. Even if he's hitting it at 35% he needs to be able to score besides fast breaks. Karasev I've already given up on, and I suggest you guys do to. I can't think of one lineup where he's useful and I don't see him breaking out either.

[Prokorov]

You always have to look at past season stats. But remember, there's the factor that guys can have an above average year from their past stats. Here's my hope for lineups/shooters:

they can also have a down year from their past stats. i think you have to be realistic, look at the career numbers, and realize that these guys arent great shooters.

Larkin - average (I have high hopes for him that he can break out under Hollins. A lot of us should be rooting for him b/c he can really help this franchise out if he turns out to be even an average PG. My hope is that he averages something like 12/6 this season... which would be doubling his points and assists per game from last season on an all-time **** Knicks team)

he is a poor 3 point shooter. he was an average 3 point shooter at best from the college line. shooting isnt one of his strong points.

Bogs - good. Got to hope he breaks out in his second year and shoots around 38-42% for the year.

Johnson - good. Hopefully the "happiest man in the locker room" will show it and be the leader this team needs this year.

these are our 2 shooters who will get big minutes. we need them to both have good seasons shooting it from 3 again. i think they will.

Thad - decent enough...won't be taking most of the shots in this lineup but will hopefully be driving to the basket and getting 2nd chance points.

Lopez - good... 2s only. Never want to see him taking 3s. He showed a lot of promise last year at the end of the year and I want him to stick to that formula.

Id rather brook shoot 3s then long 2s. same with thad. those two bricking long twos is the worst possible outcome on offense outside of a turnover. if you want to tell me you dont want brook shooting jumpers at all, im 100% on board with that. but if he is going to take jumpers i want him to shoot 3s/ ill take 30-32% from three over 38-40% from two. same with thad only more extreme. he is worse on long 2s and loves taking them. he needs to shoot 3s and not long 2s.

Then off the bench, Jack is not a 3 pt threat but he can score. Ellington and Bargs are the 3 pt guys, then RHJ and TRob play defense and get boards.

again, this is kind of thing that is just misleading. "ellington and bargs can shoot". thats great, but you still have them playing next to 3 guys who can shoot from 3/with range.

likewise in the starting line-up... you have bogs/jj with 3 guys who cant/dont shoot 3s.

jump shooting was one of if not our biggest issues last year. it will be again, if anything, worse since we just removed any and all 3 point shooting we had from the PG position and one of our key young role players(RHJ) cant shoot from 3.

ellington can shoot, but he is just replacing anderson so thats kind of a wash. bargs helps but that doesnt come close to offsetting the loss of 3 point shooting at PG

[Prokorov]

Hm....the Williams/Brown/Johnson/Thad/Lopez only had two shooters(Deron and Joe) and they were our best line up all year.

Jack/Bogs/Joe/Thad/Brook might not be that bad? Defensively that line up is horrible

that williams/brown/jj/thad/lopez lineup only played 255 minutes together all season. thats not a very large sample size.

for 250 minutes it worked. im not sure it would have worked for 2500 minutes (82 games).

also, that 250 minutes was over 22 games. thats just 10 minutes a game with that lineup. it isnt like that was a starting lineup we rolled with for 8 games where that unit was playign together 30 minutes a night.

a 22 game 10 minute per night sample really isnt something i think you can project for 82 games at 30 minutes a night.

[Prokorov]

Hm....the Williams/Brown/Johnson/Thad/Lopez only had two shooters(Deron and Joe) and they were our best line up all year.

Jack/Bogs/Joe/Thad/Brook might not be that bad? Defensively that line up is horrible

that williams/brown/jj/thad/lopez lineup only played 255 minutes together all season. thats not a very large sample size.

for 250 minutes it worked. im not sure it would have worked for 2500 minutes (82 games).

also, that 250 minutes was over 22 games. thats just 10 minutes a game with that lineup. it isnt like that was a starting lineup we rolled with for 8 games where that unit was playign together 30 minutes a night.

a 22 game 10 minute per night sample really isnt something i think you can project for 82 games at 30 minutes a night.

[Prokorov]

30-33 If tradegy strikes. 40-45 If we click on all cylinders.


It'll come down to health, chemistry, and how Hollins utilizes our players/rotations.... We have a lot of diffrent options we can use at SG?Sf depending upon our needs....Hollins NEEDS to capitalize on that.

I think it comes down to just how bad our PG play is, and how good/bad our bench turns out to be.

[Prokorov]

I don't see how Bogs and Joe can start together. I think Brown will start in the first few months alongside whoever is proving to be the better shooter so far between Joe and Bogs. Eventually RHJ will slide into SF and then Joe/Bogs whoever is starting at that point gets moved to SG. Markel really needs a 3 point shot. Even if he's hitting it at 35% he needs to be able to score besides fast breaks. Karasev I've already given up on, and I suggest you guys do to. I can't think of one lineup where he's useful and I don't see him breaking out either.

Bogs/Joe started together the last stretch of the season when we played some of our best basketball. Bogs played his best ball of the season next to joe. and with how bad our 3 point shooting is, i think it is 100% imperative that they both start.

i dont see how RHJ can start...

Jack | Bogs | RHJ | Thad | Brook

thats 1 three point shooter in the lineup, that would be ugly. and that lineup isnt really one thats going to be a jauggernaut defensively to offset the poor shooting.

As far as karasev, i just dont see the logic behind giving up on a 21 year old with limited playing time over just 55 career games. especially when he had a decent stretch when getting big minutes last season.

[MrDollarBills]

And why did he stop getting minutes?

[Prokorov]

And why did he stop getting minutes?

because his shooting was a problem and we needed the scoring help. Bogs starting shooting it too well to keep off the floor.

[Lamak]

I'm expecting about 40-42 from the team. We essentially dropped Deron, added a young wing defender (which we needed), and brought most of the major minute players back with the same coach for 2 years for the first time in awhile. I'm expecting us to be better than last year optimistically honestly.