Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

JTrain · Post #661 » by **JTrain** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:37 am

wrong forum

saintEscaton · Post #662 » by **saintEscaton** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:57 am

SF88 wrote:
Two Time wrote:
phrazbit wrote:
He is supposedly a superstar, a guy like that in his prime should not miss the playoffs regardless of his roster. Chris Paul hauled some horrible Hornet teams to the 2nd round, LeBron dragged a complete joke of a Cavs deep on several deep playoff runs.

Please stop praising Chris Paul. It burns my eyes.

Chris Paul is garbage. He is not on the level of great players like Bryant, or Steve Nash(Sorry had to throw in a 2nd player so I didn't feel dirty speaking positively of Bryant).

Chris Paul has done nothing in the league. All players he's played with that looked good with him, had success and shown to be good with out him.
The NOH teams that Chris Paul lead to mediocrity were not terrible aside from him. He had teams that had David West & Tyson Chandler in the starting line-up, and other good players like Peja. Now I am not implying that those guys are superstars, but those are guys that you combine with true great players and can do some damage in the league.
Chris Paul just this year lost to a Houston Rockets team that is James Harden and nothing. Ok and Dwight Howard, but is Howard even better than DeAndre "no 5" Jordan?
Paul is the most B plus-iest player I have ever seen that has been regarded as a great player.

I think calling him garbage is probably going too far but I agree that he's definitely overrated. Its mind boggling that a player who has played with the likes of guys like David West, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and elite shooters like Peja and Reddick can't win more than a series. IMO there is absolutely no comparison between him and Kobe and its probably disrespectful to even mention both in the same breath. And I don't even like Kobe to begin with.

CP3 gets the accolade of being a consumnate winner because of his six postseason trips and his regular season prwess.he's apparently the last of the "true PG" breed from the Nash era and is wrongfully credited otherworldly as lockdown defender when he's more of just a ballhawk. For all the flack LeBron got for not being a closer on the Heat at least he put himself in the position of contention year in and year out going back to the early days of him carrying a terrible Cavs team to the Finals. CP3 has been a career loser to this date . A sub .500 playoff record and yet to make it out of the second round into a WCF and it seems like he may never get over the hump. His monumental 4th quarter chokejob in the elimination game of the 2014 OKC series was entirely his fault.

blacksun · Post #663 » by **blacksun** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:39 am

JTrain wrote:Suns have a new alternate uni this season. See all black on far right:

What does ours say?

Dallas alternates looks sick. Houston's suck balls.

plonden · Post #664 » by **plonden** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:14 am

The Chris Paul chokes in the playoffs storyline is overblown. Look at the playoffs this season. Chris Paul put away the San Antonio Spurs in Game 7, while playing on one leg. His game winner was ridiculous. He wanted that shot on the biggest stage against the defending champions. And he hit it while hobbled with a bum hamstring and while being guarded by Danny Green AND Tim Duncan.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkpv8Qv_x_U[/youtube]

CP3 did everything humanly possible to win that San Antonio series. In the playoffs last season, he was in the 50-40-90 club, while putting up 22 points, 8.8 assists, 4.4 boards, and 1.8 steals. If anyone choked in the playoffs, it was Blake Griffin, although his overall numbers wouldn't show it. If you watched the playoffs, Griffin put up monstrous numbers in the first three quarters of almost every game. But then Griffin looked like he was allergic to the basketball in the fourth quarter of almost every game.

NTB · Post #665 » by **NTB** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:39 am

Lol plonden such a random post :lol:

Isn't it a little bit late to talk about that?

EDIT: Hey I'm sorry, didn't see the previous page. There was a discussion about cp3.

plonden · Post #666 » by **plonden** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:43 am

NTB wrote:Lol plonden such a random post Isn't it a little bit late to talk about that?

EDIT: Hey I'm sorry, didn't see the previous page. There was a discussion about cp3.

Hahaha, yeah, that would have been random.

jcsunsfan · Post #667 » by **jcsunsfan** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:47 am

GoranTragic wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:After the off-season we have had and the projected FA next season why should we care about Kieff and/or Tucker? They are not an integral part of our future plans and that is very obvious. If we can retain Kieff great but if he is going to complain because we had to trade his brother to get a shot at an elite player then he should go play for a lottery team.

We made positive changes in the off-season and if he can't see that then trade his fragile ego to Philly. Since he loves playing on losing teams that don't want to improve their roster and compete for the play-offs. Tucker on the other hand needs to get his ass shipped to China. He spends the off-season drinking by the pool and people still want him on this team?

If you are a true SUNS fan you should never want someone like Tucker on your team. He looks more out of shape each time I see him and after his obvious low basketball IQ (see last season) we should waive him and stretch his salary, if possible. Just **** get rid of him and his lack of discipline.

Daaaaaammn! I like how you think. Tucker should have been gone last year. He is highly overrated by some Suns fans. But hey, if a low IQ, hardworking, low skilled, d-leaguer guy is your thing, than more power to you (those of you who like him).

I'm am not a fan of keiff. But on the other hand, we have NO OTHER power forward (literally). Kinda of need him. Keiff is a less skilled clone of Rodney Rodgers. Keiff could be a great 6th man (with a good attitude) on a good team but his attitude sucks a$$ and his play is erratic far too much. If I had a choice, I would package keiff for a real power forward but there really isn't much out there at the moment. Keiff is not a team player (obviously) but we are about to see what he is all about this year. Again, not a fan of his but Suns are sorta stuck right now.

@InsiderSuns: After not speaking to Markieff Morris for 3 weeks, the Suns plan on meeting Markieff to address their expectations and future with the team.

I'm not saying Kief cannot be a great player. Unfortunately he would have an awesome game one night and then disappear the next. :

Kieff was the most consistent player on this team last year. Most everything else you said was correct but this is clearly not. Look at the game logs.

AtheJ415 · Post #668 » by **AtheJ415** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:11 am

Disagree so much with the "Kieff at best is a 6th man but Mirotic is a franchise building block" rhetoric.

Kieff at best is a dynamic offensive starter who plays average D. Mirotic is all of like 18 months younger and has proven drastically less at this level. He shot 31% from 3 last year, so you can't even really say the 3 ball is an advantage for him either.

AtheJ415 · Post #669 » by **AtheJ415** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:13 am

jcsunsfan wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
Daaaaaammn! I like how you think. Tucker should have been gone last year. He is highly overrated by some Suns fans. But hey, if a low IQ, hardworking, low skilled, d-leaguer guy is your thing, than more power to you (those of you who like him).

I'm am not a fan of keiff. But on the other hand, we have NO OTHER power forward (literally). Kinda of need him. Keiff is a less skilled clone of Rodney Rodgers. Keiff could be a great 6th man (with a good attitude) on a good team but his attitude sucks a$$ and his play is erratic far too much. If I had a choice, I would package keiff for a real power forward but there really isn't much out there at the moment. Keiff is not a team player (obviously) but we are about to see what he is all about this year. Again, not a fan of his but Suns are sorta stuck right now.

I'm not saying Kief cannot be a great player. Unfortunately he would have an awesome game one night and then disappear the next. :

Kieff was the most consistent player on this team last year. Most everything else you said was correct but this is clearly not. Look at the game logs.

Yup. I'm not sure any player in the league is as consistent as some fans expect. The idea that a superstar brings it every night consistently shows me that many fans aren't paying close attention to superstar performance across the league on a nightly basis. They have their good games just like their bad most often.

Sonne · Post #670 » by **Sonne** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:38 am

blacksun wrote:
JTrain wrote:Suns have a new alternate uni this season. See all black on far right:

What does ours say?

Dallas alternates looks sick. Houston's suck balls.

it says PHX

Revived · Post #671 » by **Revived** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:54 am

bigfoot wrote:
SF88 wrote:
Two Time wrote:
Please stop praising Chris Paul. It burns my eyes.

Chris Paul is garbage. He is not on the level of great players like Bryant, or Steve Nash(Sorry had to throw in a 2nd player so I didn't feel dirty speaking positively of Bryant).

Chris Paul has done nothing in the league. All players he's played with that looked good with him, had success and shown to be good with out him.
The NOH teams that Chris Paul lead to mediocrity were not terrible aside from him. He had teams that had David West & Tyson Chandler in the starting line-up, and other good players like Peja. Now I am not implying that those guys are superstars, but those are guys that you combine with true great players and can do some damage in the league.
Chris Paul just this year lost to a Houston Rockets team that is James Harden and nothing. Ok and Dwight Howard, but is Howard even better than DeAndre "no 5" Jordan?
Paul is the most B plus-iest player I have ever seen that has been regarded as a great player.

I think calling him garbage is probably going too far but I agree that he's definitely overrated. Its mind boggling that a player who has played with the likes of guys like David West, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and elite shooters like Peja and Reddick can't win more than a series. IMO there is absolutely no comparison between him and Kobe and its probably disrespectful to even mention both in the same breath. And I don't even like Kobe to begin with.

Funny but there was a NBA coaches round-table on NBA-TV before the summer league championship game. McCale, Karl, Gentry, Blatt, Carslie, and Hollins. Chris Paul's name was mentioned many times in the show in a very positive light.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-NBA-coaches-name-the-smartest-players-theyve-ever-had-38319229

Ok and? Did any of those coaches say he's better than Kobe or even close to being better than Kobe?

Post #672 » by **TASTIC** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:44 am

Would anyone trade Kieff and Tucker to the Kings for Gay and Collison?

Only then you'd have ANOTHER PG, albeit a decent one. Would probably try flip Collison elsewhere - to the Nets for Corey Jefferson or a pick maybe? They need a PG with only Jack there. I've love Rondae off them but they're not trading him this soon.

Works in checker. Makes us a bit thin up front but Kieff was never an above average rebounder...Gay can play small-ball PF as well so I'd go a bit smaller to start then bring Len in at PF when we play a big/slow team/Memphis:

Chandler / Len
Gay / Teletovic / Leuer
Warren / Weems
Knight / Goodwin / Booker (I think he'll be ahead of Archie after less than a month)
Bledsoe / Price

Sign Mike James and Harrellson to round it out!

NTB · Post #673 » by **NTB** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:51 am

Lol wtf. Kings would never do that trade.

RaisingArizona · Post #674 » by **RaisingArizona** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:55 am

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I'm on these forums.

Post #675 » by **TASTIC** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:17 am

Why!

Gay's a good player - we'd probably need to include Goodwin for Kings to be interested.

Kieff is going to be dealt, he has to. Dude hasn't responded to the the GM or the coach, nor is he in Phoenix practicing with any teammates who might be there. It's only going to go downhill from here and I'd rather trade him now...

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/7/22/9013453/phoenix-suns-coach-gm-still-have-not-talked-to-embattled-markieff

Post #676 » by **TASTIC** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:19 am

And yes I'm still catching up on last couple days worth of Suns stuff - apologies about the re-hash of this Kieff stuff, I hadn't read it yet

NTB · Post #677 » by **NTB** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:34 am

TASTIC wrote:Why!

Gay's a good player - we'd probably need to include Goodwin for Kings to be interested.

Kieff is going to be dealt, he has to. Dude hasn't responded to the the GM or the coach, nor is he in Phoenix practicing with any teammates who might be there. It's only going to go downhill from here and I'd rather trade him now...

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/7/22/9013453/phoenix-suns-coach-gm-still-have-not-talked-to-embattled-markieff

I haven't said we shouldn't trade Tucker and Markieff. I've said Kings would never accept that offer.

Kieff doesn't fit there and they already had mental problems with Cousins. No need for more.

Gay's value is higher than Kieff and Collison's value is higher than Tucker.

Post #678 » by **TASTIC** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:59 am

NTB wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Why!

Gay's a good player - we'd probably need to include Goodwin for Kings to be interested.

Kieff is going to be dealt, he has to. Dude hasn't responded to the the GM or the coach, nor is he in Phoenix practicing with any teammates who might be there. It's only going to go downhill from here and I'd rather trade him now...

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/7/22/9013453/phoenix-suns-coach-gm-still-have-not-talked-to-embattled-markieff

I haven't said we shouldn't trade Tucker and Markieff. I've said Kings would never accept that offer.

Kieff doesn't fit there and they already had mental problems with Cousins. No need for more.

Gay's value is higher than Kieff and Collison's value is higher than Tucker.

I disagree on both - they were offering Gay around in trades round the draft, he's also older and more expensive than Kieff - who would be ideal next to Cousins up front.

Also Collison is a luxury now that they've got Rondo there, so I could see them shipping him off relatively cheap too.

Now Gay is better than Kieff and Collison slightly better than Tucker, but I think both could be had in the right deal.

thamadkant · Post #679 » by **thamadkant** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:35 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Disagree so much with the "Kieff at best is a 6th man but Mirotic is a franchise building block" rhetoric.

Kieff at best is a dynamic offensive starter who plays average D. Mirotic is all of like 18 months younger and has proven drastically less at this level. He shot 31% from 3 last year, so you can't even really say the 3 ball is an advantage for him either.

Mirotic is a better player than Markieff Morris overall.

Sure, Markieff has good mid range game, but Mirotic is no slouch there and he is a better long range shooter who is still developing.
Mirotic also has a higher ceiling still, since he wasnt used by Thibs well. He can actually dribble a bit, moves well, skilled and overall a smarter player.. all via eye test and I'm comparing 20+ games between the two.

And I'm sure some Suns fans here who have seen Mirotic enough times as much as Markieff can say Mirotic's ceiling is higher. And with the minutes and role Markieff got from the Suns.. Mirotic would put up BETTER numbers offensively and on the boards...

carey · Post #680 » by **carey** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:01 pm

TASTIC wrote: Now Gay is better than Kieff and Collison slightly better than Tucker, but I think both could be had in the right deal.

I can't see Sacramento trading Rudy right now. He recruited Rondo to Sacramento. He flew out to Rondo's home & got him to sign that crap 1-year deal. I don't see Vlade trading him after that. I'm not sure Rudy is a great fit on the Suns regardless. He's had something of a resurgence there. He's taking better shots, making more of them, and seems to be a good guy. He also doesn't play PF. So you're trading 2 starters for 1 starter that would stunt the development of Warren. You'd also have to be cool with Teletovic starting and playing heavy minutes all season. Then if an injury happens you are stuck playing Leuer all year. If Markieff is moved you have to get a starting quality big-man back.

When I suggested acquiring Gay before the draft I was trying to send over Bledsoe (who I'm not a fan of) to get Sauce Castillo (who was subsequently traded), Gay, and a draft pick. This was before we moved Marcus & drafted Booker though so I'm ok with where we are. I still think letting Knight be the sole PG and having a traditional 2-guard that could defend like Jimmy Butler would make us a better team. Alas....