Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[saintEscaton]

I know many here don't like Markieff, but let's not make up lies to fulfill your hate. Mirotic shot worse from three last year than Markieff, but not by much at all 0.316 to 0.318. So no one can say that Mirotic is a way better three point shooter, nor can someone say it isn't even close, because clearly it was super close.

Oh well, resume the hate.

It isn't all in statistics. Mirotic is automatic from distance, his stroke is quick and if you are not near him defensively he came make 3 or 4 threes on a row easily. Markieff is more of a mid range player.

I think that if you watch Mirotic playing, the eye test would tell you that he is a real good 3p shooter and he really draws constant attention from defenders... and the other one (Markieff )is a decent ocassional 3p shooter. A ton of difference here.

You can't be oblivious to sample size/volume of shooting. Mirotic shot nearly twice Kieff's amount of 3 PT attempts (313 vs 179) in limited playing time. In fact even though he ranked just 10th in total minutes he more than doubled the wins shares per 48 minutes of any competing rookie in his class and posted a historically high unparalled 3pt/ FT attempt rate near 50%. (meaning half of his total attempts were from beyond the arc while he made it to the charity stripe once every two field goal tries ) So he posses a unique ability to draw fouls by initiating contact by leaning into defenders/baiting with pump fakes and can put it on the floor despite operating from the perimeter as a Stretch 4 who can draw bigs out of the paint. In the month of March he went on a tear after getting consistent 25+ MPG averaging 20 ppg, 8 rpg and 8 FTAs while also leading the NBA in 4th quarter scoring after the All-Star break.

[bwgood77]

I would rather have Air Bud on the Suns instead of Markieff.

congrats. You win this week beating a dead horse award!

Maybe he should go one step further than the sig and change his username to TradeMarkieff

[bwgood77]

1. At least Phoenix's aren't sleeved.

2. I hate the Suns affinity for black. The team color's are purple & orange.

I think the sleeves are more for the fans, because I'm not going to walk around in a regular jersey often, but a sleeved one would be cool. I just wish they had a cool purple one.

I agree about the black. A little bit of it is cool, but I want them to incorporate more purple. Black looks good with some colors like red or blue or grey, but with orange it just reminds you of halloween, as Zach Lowe has pointed out a couple of times.

[AtheJ415]

I know many here don't like Markieff, but let's not make up lies to fulfill your hate. Mirotic shot worse from three last year than Markieff, but not by much at all 0.316 to 0.318. So no one can say that Mirotic is a way better three point shooter, nor can someone say it isn't even close, because clearly it was super close.

Oh well, resume the hate.

It isn't all in statistics. Mirotic is automatic from distance, his stroke is quick and if you are not near him defensively he came make 3 or 4 threes on a row easily. Markieff is more of a mid range player.

I think that if you watch Mirotic playing, the eye test would tell you that he is a real good 3p shooter and he really draws constant attention from defenders... and the other one (Markieff )is a decent ocassional 3p shooter. A ton of difference here.

You can't be oblivious to sample size/volume of shooting. Mirotic shot nearly twice Kieff's amount of 3 PT attempts (313 vs 179) in limited playing time. In fact even though he ranked just 10th in total minutes he more than doubled the wins shares per 48 minutes of any competing rookie in his class and posted a historically high unparalled 3pt/ FT attempt rate near 50%. (meaning half of his total attempts were from beyond the arc while he made it to the charity stripe once every two field goal tries ) So he posses a unique ability to draw fouls by initiating contact by leaning into defenders/baiting with pump fakes and can put it on the floor despite operating from the perimeter as a Stretch 4 who can draw bigs out of the paint. In the month of March he went on a tear after getting consistent 25+ MPG averaging 20 ppg, 8 rpg and 8 FTAs while also leading the NBA in 4th quarter scoring after the All-Star break.

Volume doesn't help in this scenario. Hi volume makes a good FG% look more impressive because it means you've helped your team more and the fg% is considered more representative of true shooting ability. When the FG% is bad, it's the opposite. The attempts HURT MIrotic's numbers here.

Yes. He had a couple awesome months. He also had 3 truly disgustingly awful ones, which bring us to our overall numbers, where Kieff's trounce his.

[bwgood77]

Lol why Justin Hamilton?

I suppose they want a 7 footer that isn't a bad 3 pt shooter. He shoots 32-33% from 3, so if he could up that a tad, it would be ok. And probably for injury insurance since both of our centers are injury prone.

I'd rather they just sign Mike James and Josh Harrellson though, but perhaps they won't sign unguaranteed deals.

[batsmasher]

I love how we're all over Jorts. For a guy that's already been through the NBA and proved he isn't athletic enough for the NBA there sure is a lot of hype. Credit to him, he seems like a nice bloke.

But being up in arms about not getting him is fairly silly. He's a known quantity.

Mike James on the other hand... as long as we can accept him as a score first PG I'm well and truly down.

[bwgood77]

I love how we're all over Jorts. For a guy that's already been through the NBA and proved he isn't athletic enough for the NBA there sure is a lot of hype. Credit to him, he seems like a nice bloke.

But being up in arms about not getting him is fairly silly. He's a known quantity.

Mike James on the other hand... as long as we can accept him as a score first PG I'm well and truly down.

Harrellson seems like serviceable big that could play 4 or 5 off the bench. Only maybe a few minutes a game in garbage time, and plug him in for injury purposes. But maybe Justin Hamilton is the better pick up. I don't know much about him.

[Sunsdeuce]

Reading this board for the last 5 years makes me realize that we have been bad or just barely average for so long many people forget what it's like to have good players and having a good/contending team.

People are arguing over freaking markeiff Morris.

I miss the days of arguing with trolls when we were good. We can't even get a good troll battle anymore. Sad

[saintEscaton]

Reading this board for the last 5 years makes me realize that we have been bad or just barely average for so long many people forget what it's like to have good players and having a good/contending team.

People are arguing over freaking markeiff Morris.

I miss the days of arguing with trolls when we were good. We can't even get a good troll battle anymore. Sad

Whats more hilarious is that some truly believe that once Kieff's aggravated assault charges get dropped to a misdemeanor (nothing is certain as of yet/ the verdict is still in the air after his arraignment) he will magically turn into a hot trade commodity who will net us an emerging two way stud PF who actually plays like a legitimate big in return. There's a reason most of us want him gone. Sometimes its hard to admit that our sh*t stinks because we don't want to take out the garbage and clean house. But no matter how much you douse it the odor still prevails

[bwgood77]

Reading this board for the last 5 years makes me realize that we have been bad or just barely average for so long many people forget what it's like to have good players and having a good/contending team.

People are arguing over freaking markeiff Morris.

I miss the days of arguing with trolls when we were good. We can't even get a good troll battle anymore. Sad

Whats more hilarious is that some truly believe that once Kieff's aggravated assault charges get dropped to a misdemeanor (nothing is certain as of yet/ the verdict is still in the air after his arraignment) he will magically turn into a hot trade commodity who will net us an emerging two way stud PF who actually plays like a legitimate big in return. There's a reason most of us want him gone. Sometimes its hard to admit that our sh*t stinks because we don't want to take out the garbage and clean house. But no matter how much you douse it the odor still prevails

I don't think anyone thinks we can trade him for what you suggest because those qualities are not realistically out there in a PF that would be available for trade. But nonetheless, his trade value will go up. We at least (unless a great trade offer comes up) need to see how this team performs, and then at the trade deadline, or before, if it makes sense to trade him, maybe they do. But this team has too many good players now to intentionally tank. I just don't know what trade possibilities might be out there. But at the trade deadline, if that case is behind him, it will be much better.

[blacksun]

1. At least Phoenix's aren't sleeved.

2. I hate the Suns affinity for black. The team color's are purple & orange.

I think the sleeves are more for the fans, because I'm not going to walk around in a regular jersey often, but a sleeved one would be cool. I just wish they had a cool purple one.

I agree about the black. A little bit of it is cool, but I want them to incorporate more purple. Black looks good with some colors like red or blue or grey, but with orange it just reminds you of halloween, as Zach Lowe has pointed out a couple of times.

Black definitely isnt for us. Ive always hated the black trim around our court in US Airways. If they wanted a black jersey so bad, just bust out the retro's we wore three years ago. And while were at it, i think the purple on our away jerseys are too dark IMO

[saintEscaton]

1. At least Phoenix's aren't sleeved.

2. I hate the Suns affinity for black. The team color's are purple & orange.

I think the sleeves are more for the fans, because I'm not going to walk around in a regular jersey often, but a sleeved one would be cool. I just wish they had a cool purple one.

I agree about the black. A little bit of it is cool, but I want them to incorporate more purple. Black looks good with some colors like red or blue or grey, but with orange it just reminds you of halloween, as Zach Lowe has pointed out a couple of times.

Black definitely isnt for us. Ive always hated the black trim around our court in US Airways. If they wanted a black jersey so bad, just bust out the retro's we wore three years ago. And while were at it, i think the purple on our away jerseys are too dark IMO

I like the black/purple color combo on your avatar. Thought you would too judging by your name

[bwgood77]

I'm guessing people from the FO read stuff here....so should we create a thread about bringing back the purple? Do people here want it? Not that it would influence them much, but any influence is good. But perhaps Sarver hates purple and loves black.

[lilfishi22]

Reading this board for the last 5 years makes me realize that we have been bad or just barely average for so long many people forget what it's like to have good players and having a good/contending team.

People are arguing over freaking markeiff Morris.

I miss the days of arguing with trolls when we were good. We can't even get a good troll battle anymore. Sad

Whats more hilarious is that some truly believe that once Kieff's aggravated assault charges get dropped to a misdemeanor (nothing is certain as of yet/ the verdict is still in the air after his arraignment) he will magically turn into a hot trade commodity who will net us an emerging two way stud PF who actually plays like a legitimate big in return. There's a reason most of us want him gone. Sometimes its hard to admit that our sh*t stinks because we don't want to take out the garbage and clean house. But no matter how much you douse it the odor still prevails

That's why he shouldn't be traded. Unless he wants out

[drewsprocket]

Kief can pout but he's playing in a suns uni unless we can fleece another team for him. It's teenage behavior. Once season is in play he'll put in his big boy pants and act in accordance with leadership now that we have chandler on the squad. It's not a big deal. Even if he demands a trade teams will come knocking looking for solid trades. Suns hold all his cards is the bottom line.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[saintEscaton]

Reading this board for the last 5 years makes me realize that we have been bad or just barely average for so long many people forget what it's like to have good players and having a good/contending team.

People are arguing over freaking markeiff Morris.

I miss the days of arguing with trolls when we were good. We can't even get a good troll battle anymore. Sad

Whats more hilarious is that some truly believe that once Kieff's aggravated assault charges get dropped to a misdemeanor (nothing is certain as of yet/ the verdict is still in the air after his arraignment) he will magically turn into a hot trade commodity who will net us an emerging two way stud PF who actually plays like a legitimate big in return. There's a reason most of us want him gone. Sometimes its hard to admit that our sh*t stinks because we don't want to take out the garbage and clean house. But no matter how much you douse it the odor still prevails

I don't think anyone thinks we can trade him for what you suggest because those qualities are not realistically out there in a PF that would be available for trade. But nonetheless, his trade value will go up. We at least (unless a great trade offer comes up) need to see how this team performs, and then at the trade deadline, or before, if it makes sense to trade him, maybe they do. But this team has too many good players now to intentionally tank. I just don't know what trade possibilities might be out there. But at the trade deadline, if that case is behind him, it will be much better.

I agree we should hold on to him until his legal issues sort themselves out(hopefully) and we know that he has ovecome twin withdrawal. If (and thats a highly doubtful if) he proves that he won't be a lockr room cancer and shows commitment to the team above himself I wouldn't be averse to reciprocate by keeping him until we can find an upgrade. But he plays a premium position with a scarcity in acquirable talent so we might be stuck with him and I doubt he would agree to being kept aboard if he's not featured in starting capacity. But he is under team control so he has little to no leverage

[blacksun]

1. At least Phoenix's aren't sleeved.

2. I hate the Suns affinity for black. The team color's are purple & orange.

I think the sleeves are more for the fans, because I'm not going to walk around in a regular jersey often, but a sleeved one would be cool. I just wish they had a cool purple one.

I agree about the black. A little bit of it is cool, but I want them to incorporate more purple. Black looks good with some colors like red or blue or grey, but with orange it just reminds you of halloween, as Zach Lowe has pointed out a couple of times.

Black definitely isnt for us. Ive always hated the black trim around our court in US Airways. If they wanted a black jersey so bad, just bust out the retro's we wore three years ago. And while were at it, i think the purple on our away jerseys are too dark IMO

Yeah its pretty ironic. Personally I love black, ive always thought its classy. But for the suns it just doesn't work. 1. Because we use orange and with black, its not a pretty combination. 2. Were the suns, were supposed to bring light! Our fast paced, fun to watch culture doesnt suit black at all IMO. This is why i love the home unis. 3. Reminds me of the Spurs. yuck.

[AtheJ415]

Lol why Justin Hamilton?

I suppose they want a 7 footer that isn't a bad 3 pt shooter. He shoots 32-33% from 3, so if he could up that a tad, it would be ok. And probably for injury insurance since both of our centers are injury prone.

I'd rather they just sign Mike James and Josh Harrellson though, but perhaps they won't sign unguaranteed deals.

Eh. I'd rather have Hamilton. He can play the 4 and 5, and can do a bit more (actually score in the post and move a bit). Harrellson probably can hit more 3s, particularly if he gets his set shot opportunities, but I'm not sure what else he could do better than Hamilton.

Personally, I'd rather trade the Cavs 1st for Zeller, but I suppose we want a back of bench role guy and with Teletovic being such a good fit here it would be hard for anyone to get much PT who isn't a starting caliber 4 or 5.

[AtheJ415]

Reading this board for the last 5 years makes me realize that we have been bad or just barely average for so long many people forget what it's like to have good players and having a good/contending team.

People are arguing over freaking markeiff Morris.

I miss the days of arguing with trolls when we were good. We can't even get a good troll battle anymore. Sad

Yup, the 2nd best mid-range game in the NBA combined with more efficient scoring on post touches than many all-stars from a 25 year old making 8 mil a year until he's 30 is nothing to be positive about.

[batsmasher]

I imagine a few of you listen to the Lowe Post. Dudley was on the most recent episode and he absolutely hates on Lindsey Hunter at about 45 minutes. The one coach he mentioned that he "wouldn't play for". Oh well... we got Alex Len out of it

He also says he wants to play stretch-4 this year a la Paul Pierce in the playoffs.

Oh... and that he was interested in coming back to Phoenix this off-season (it looks like we chose Mirza instead).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=10528553