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Leap Year - The Kemba Walker Thread III

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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#721 » by catch20two » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:04 am

Mystical Apples wrote:
catch20two wrote:Kyrie went from being worst than Mario Chalmers last year based on RPM to 9th best PG in the NBA a couple notches under George Hill this past year. Numbers don't lie.


The first 3-4 years really matters. That's when most players have huge jumps and why I'm skeptical Kemba will show drastic improvements. Plus he's smallish and a bad shooter - has been his whole career.

Right. Patrick Beverly went from 5th best PG in the NBA in 2013-14 to 41st this past season. He must've forgot how to play.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#722 » by catch20two » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:07 am

Damn RPM got Brandon Knight at 50th among PGs. I thought he had a good year this past year but it look like he was slightly worse than MCW. That RPM stat is harsh.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#723 » by Mystical Apples » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:14 am

catch20two wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
catch20two wrote:Kyrie went from being worst than Mario Chalmers last year based on RPM to 9th best PG in the NBA a couple notches under George Hill this past year. Numbers don't lie.


The first 3-4 years really matters. That's when most players have huge jumps and why I'm skeptical Kemba will show drastic improvements. Plus he's smallish and a bad shooter - has been his whole career.

Right. Patrick Beverly went from 5th best PG in the NBA in 2013-14 to 41st this past season. He must've forgot how to play.


That does seem harsh - until you see most of that is ORPM drop. He has gotten progressively worse each year since rookie. Looks like a trend - down to 38% fg with more volume so he hurt his team. Had injury too so makes sense that Houston would bring in a new starter to replace the inefficient PG.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#724 » by jeroka » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:43 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
jeroka wrote:any chance Kemba Walker improves his FG%?


That's wishful thinking and hopeful with the addition of better perimeter shooters, but we'll see. If Kemba doesn't shoot at least 42% I think he'd be rightfully ridiculed all season. FG% is probably his most glaring flaw


definitely, I think he needs to cut down on his shots and pass it to others instead... he is a PG.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#725 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:32 pm

Regarding RPM

1) It's not open source. So without knowing how exactly it's calculated we can't really know what it's flaws are (and it has them all metrics do).

2) RPM hasn't really been shown to be predictive yet in a scientific way. We will need more years for that ... either past years of the NBA calculated (the stuff MKA has been asking for) or to simply see how it does for the next few years.

I'm not saying that RPM is BAD, but I am saying that we just don't know if it's GOOD or not yet.

On Kemba

So this year we get to see what he can do with more talent around him. I'm honestly interested to see how that goes. One of the things that gets talked about by the analysts is how good players can develop bad habits on losing teams. With Kemba he's been asked to carry this team's scoring more than once and in games it seems like he gets over focused on that from time to time. He would stop passing as much and would start forcing shots. This year he shouldn't have to do that nearly as much and I'm interested to see if we will get less Heat Check Kemba as a result or if he will still go into Hero mode most games out of habit.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#726 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:09 am

I've seen the word predictive on here more times today than i have seen my entire life
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#727 » by mrknowitall215 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:27 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:I've seen the word predictive on here more times today than i have seen my entire life


According to 'Mystical Apples', Kemba's development & improvement as a player is "predictive". I believe 'presumable' would've been a better choice of words, but I presumed that he's pessimistic of Kemba's progress which allowed me to understand his comprehension even if I disagreed since I'm optimistic of it
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#728 » by fatlever » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:49 am

Funny you mentioned the word "predictive". I created a product at work (something I have been working on for years), launching this summer, called "PredictDiv". Its a program that accurately predicts future dividend amounts and dates for publicly traded stocks and mutual funds, 36,000 companies/funds in total, up to one year in advance. [shameless plug] I have typed the word "PredictDiv" probably 1000 times in the past few months.

http://www.mergent.com/solutions/products/data-feeds/mergent-eventsdata-predictdiv

carry on...
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#729 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:52 am

fatlever wrote:Funny you mentioned the word "predictive". I created a product at work (something I have been working on for years), launching this summer, called "PredictDiv". Its a program that accurately predicts future dividend amounts and dates for publicly traded stocks and mutual funds, 36,000 companies/funds in total, up to one year in advance. [shameless plug] I have typed the word "PredictDiv" probably 1000 times in the past few months.

http://www.mergent.com/solutions/products/data-feeds/mergent-eventsdata-predictdiv

carry on...


lol. between your post and all the informative analytic post with warp, rpm, and every other letter in the alphabet that predicates a players performance these days im beginning to feel literally stupid.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#730 » by Mystical Apples » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:56 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:I've seen the word predictive on here more times today than i have seen my entire life


According to 'Mystical Apples', Kemba's development & improvement as a player is "predictive". I believe 'presumable' would've been a better choice of words, but I presumed that he's pessimistic of Kemba's progress which allowed me to understand his comprehension even if I disagreed since I'm optimistic of it


Predictable would be the word, that's mine. But predictive is not.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#731 » by fatlever » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:58 am

The most important stat of all - the feel-o-meter
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#732 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:02 am

Mystical Apples wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:I've seen the word predictive on here more times today than i have seen my entire life


According to 'Mystical Apples', Kemba's development & improvement as a player is "predictive". I believe 'presumable' would've been a better choice of words, but I presumed that he's pessimistic of Kemba's progress which allowed me to understand his comprehension even if I disagreed since I'm optimistic of it


Predictable would be the word, that's mine. But predictive is not.


Lol. I thoroughly enjoy you two going back and forth. Its informative, and enlightening. And neither of you two get hasty towards one another.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#733 » by jeroka » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:04 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Regarding RPM

1) It's not open source. So without knowing how exactly it's calculated we can't really know what it's flaws are (and it has them all metrics do).

2) RPM hasn't really been shown to be predictive yet in a scientific way. We will need more years for that ... either past years of the NBA calculated (the stuff MKA has been asking for) or to simply see how it does for the next few years.

I'm not saying that RPM is BAD, but I am saying that we just don't know if it's GOOD or not yet.

On Kemba

So this year we get to see what he can do with more talent around him. I'm honestly interested to see how that goes. One of the things that gets talked about by the analysts is how good players can develop bad habits on losing teams. With Kemba he's been asked to carry this team's scoring more than once and in games it seems like he gets over focused on that from time to time. He would stop passing as much and would start forcing shots. This year he shouldn't have to do that nearly as much and I'm interested to see if we will get less Heat Check Kemba as a result or if he will still go into Hero mode most games out of habit.


if anything, the RPM is more reliable than the traditional +/- stat.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#734 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:10 am

jeroka wrote:
Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Regarding RPM

1) It's not open source. So without knowing how exactly it's calculated we can't really know what it's flaws are (and it has them all metrics do).

2) RPM hasn't really been shown to be predictive yet in a scientific way. We will need more years for that ... either past years of the NBA calculated (the stuff MKA has been asking for) or to simply see how it does for the next few years.

I'm not saying that RPM is BAD, but I am saying that we just don't know if it's GOOD or not yet.

On Kemba

So this year we get to see what he can do with more talent around him. I'm honestly interested to see how that goes. One of the things that gets talked about by the analysts is how good players can develop bad habits on losing teams. With Kemba he's been asked to carry this team's scoring more than once and in games it seems like he gets over focused on that from time to time. He would stop passing as much and would start forcing shots. This year he shouldn't have to do that nearly as much and I'm interested to see if we will get less Heat Check Kemba as a result or if he will still go into Hero mode most games out of habit.


if anything, the RPM is more reliable than the traditional +/- stat.


Can you explain why? Not questioning you. Just curious.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#735 » by Mystical Apples » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:13 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
According to 'Mystical Apples', Kemba's development & improvement as a player is "predictive". I believe 'presumable' would've been a better choice of words, but I presumed that he's pessimistic of Kemba's progress which allowed me to understand his comprehension even if I disagreed since I'm optimistic of it


Predictable would be the word, that's mine. But predictive is not.


Lol. I thoroughly enjoy you two going back and forth. Its informative, and enlightening. And neither of you two get hasty towards one another.


It works cause one is scientific method, the other pendantic jazz hands
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#736 » by jeroka » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:14 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
jeroka wrote:
Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Regarding RPM

1) It's not open source. So without knowing how exactly it's calculated we can't really know what it's flaws are (and it has them all metrics do).

2) RPM hasn't really been shown to be predictive yet in a scientific way. We will need more years for that ... either past years of the NBA calculated (the stuff MKA has been asking for) or to simply see how it does for the next few years.

I'm not saying that RPM is BAD, but I am saying that we just don't know if it's GOOD or not yet.

On Kemba

So this year we get to see what he can do with more talent around him. I'm honestly interested to see how that goes. One of the things that gets talked about by the analysts is how good players can develop bad habits on losing teams. With Kemba he's been asked to carry this team's scoring more than once and in games it seems like he gets over focused on that from time to time. He would stop passing as much and would start forcing shots. This year he shouldn't have to do that nearly as much and I'm interested to see if we will get less Heat Check Kemba as a result or if he will still go into Hero mode most games out of habit.


if anything, the RPM is more reliable than the traditional +/- stat.


Can you explain why? Not questioning you. Just curiois.


as the other poster said, it's not open source, so we can't really determine the "how" exactly. but for instance, it takes into account strength of the team on the floor, as well as strength of competition... while traditional +/- does not.

a wild guess to help us understand would be, if player A has a traditional +/- of +10, and the other 4 guys on the floor has a net +/- of -1, player A's RPM would be adjusted accordingly... I also read that they take into account other analytics to make further adjustments, such as hustle rates, eFG%, TS%, etc... so I put more value to RPM than the old +/-... although I still put some value on the latter since it's still widely used today.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#737 » by mrknowitall215 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:14 am

Mystical Apples wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:I've seen the word predictive on here more times today than i have seen my entire life


According to 'Mystical Apples', Kemba's development & improvement as a player is "predictive". I believe 'presumable' would've been a better choice of words, but I presumed that he's pessimistic of Kemba's progress which allowed me to understand his comprehension even if I disagreed since I'm optimistic of it


Predictable would be the word, that's mine. But predictive is not.


"Predictive" of you to respond like this
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#738 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:15 am

Mystical Apples wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
Predictable would be the word, that's mine. But predictive is not.


Lol. I thoroughly enjoy you two going back and forth. Its informative, and enlightening. And neither of you two get hasty towards one another.


It works cause one is scientific method, the other pendantic jazz hands


Pendantic... Another fantastic word I'll use the next time I play scrabble. I like it.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#739 » by Mystical Apples » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:18 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
According to 'Mystical Apples', Kemba's development & improvement as a player is "predictive". I believe 'presumable' would've been a better choice of words, but I presumed that he's pessimistic of Kemba's progress which allowed me to understand his comprehension even if I disagreed since I'm optimistic of it


Predictable would be the word, that's mine. But predictive is not.


"Predictive" of you to respond like this


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Re: Is It December Yet? - The Kemba Walker Thread III 

Post#740 » by JDR720 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:18 am

where do you guys have Kemba on your all-time Charlotte Hornets/Bobcats PG rankings? (including original hornets too)

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