Chuck Texas & PMOTT3's Early Off-Season Review: Milwaukee Bucks

[Hawk Eye]

Chuck Texas Review

Losses:

Dudley
Ilyasova
Zaza

Draft:

Rashad Vaughn

Pick is fine value-wise I guess.  Hard to see much of a role for him at the moment.

Trades:

Rights to Norman Powell, future 1st for Grevis Vasquez

Zaza for essentially nothing
Dudley for essentially nothing 
Ilyasova for essentially nothing

I hated this series of deals.  Giving away Ilyasova gave them cap space to get Monroe and I'm on board with that move.  But Zaza and Dudley are nice solid role players with one year remaining on their deals and they could easily have structured the order of deals to keep both players and they are nowhere near tax.   Just really puzzling.   I like Grevis as a PG option for them quite a bit.   But not at that price.   Just the rights to Norman Powell and absorbing the contract should have sufficed.

Free Agency:

Greg Monroe
Khris Middleton

These are big money contracts for guys who probably haven't quite earned those deals yet.  Both both of them will still be in their prime when these deals are done so I don't mind what looks like a slight overpay right now.   Monroe(and the return of Parker) should really help the offense and Middleton is that player every team is looking to have--great shooter with size who can and will defend.   

Depth Chart(rough):

Monroe/Henson/Plumlee
Parker/O'Bryant
Giannis/Inglis
Middleton/Mayo/Bayless/Vaughn
MCW/Vasquez/Ennis

Needs:

Jared Dudley. I mean seriously he is exactly what they need for forward depth and they could have kept him. They have lots of guys who can play multiple positions which is nice.  Would also like to see a big man with some range.

Additional thoughts:

Find out if MCW can really be your PG.   If not PG leads the shopping list in the summer.   If the team is contending for a top 4 seed I would love to see them package Mayo's contract with some of their prospects and add one more major piece.   Really like the Parker/Giannis/Middleton trio.  I think they fit together perfectly and I would love to have that as my core.   Still feels a little thin outside of that.

Win/Loss Prediction: 48-34

I think they should be better than last year and this is a team I expect to be a lot scarier at the end of the year as compared to the beginning.  And if Parker can be an 18-20 ppg guy with reasonable efficiency this team is going to scare some people

Off-Season Grade:  C-

They made a bunch of trades that just made no sense and they could have made the free agency moves they made without doing most of them.   And a lot rides on whether or not they are right on MCW and that makes me pretty nervous.

PMOTT3 Review

Key Losses:

N/A

Other Losses:

Zaza Pachulia
Jared Dudley
Ersan Illyasova

Draft:

Rashad Vaughn

Didn't like the pick to be honest and thought there were a lot better options available at #17 (although it wasn't as bad as taking Rozier at #16).

Trades:

.Draft Rights to Norman Powell and 17' LAC 1st for Greivis Vasquez
. Illyasova for peanuts
. Dudley for roasted peanuts
. Pachulia for lightly salted peanuts

I completely agree with Chuck on all of this. First off, the Vazquez trade was one of the most lop-sided trades made in the entire off season imo. A clear loss from Milwaukee's perspective. Vasquez is nice PG insurance but totally not worth what they gave up for him. Second, they could have kept Zaza and Dudley and still had the space to sign Monroe. Both those guys are nice role playing vets that any coach would love to have. I hated all of these trades with the exception of Illyasova because it had to be done for Monroe.

Free Agency:

Greg Monroe
Kris Middleton

I applaud the Bucks for actually beating out the big fish in FA and getting a guy that was seen as a tier 2 maybe high tier 3 free agent. BUT, im not sure that I like the fit. Parker/Monroe should make for a great offensive front court but could have some major issues defensively. Time will tell. Anyways, I dont think either of these guys are worth what they are making now but both are still young and could play up to the value of their contracts in 1-2 years.

Depth Chart (rough sketch):

PG: MCW/Ennis/Bayless
SG: Middleton/Mayo/Vaughn
SF: Giannis/Ingles
PF: Parker/O' Bryant
C: Monroe/Henson/Plumlee

Needs:

They need more depth at the 3 & 4. Ingles and O'Bryant strike me as fringe rotation pieces (think 11th, 12th, and 13th man). So yeah, Dudley would have been perfect. Wouldn't mind seeing them add another stretch 4 or 5 to replace what Illyasova brought or was suppose to bring I should say.

Additional Thoughts:

I really love the length of Milwaukee's starting 5. I dont think they have a guy that starts under 6"4. I think they need more help off the bench and some vets. MCW's development is huge. If his jump shot is still broken for most of this season are they still going to run with him as the starter or look for other options elsewhere? Really hoping for a bounce-back season from Parker because he looked like a leading candidate for ROTY before the injury.

Win/Loss Prediction: 39-43

This team will take a step back this season and might even miss the playoffs. People forget that this was a sub-.500 team post all star break after the Knight trade. I think MCW's shot remains broken all season. I dont think they have enough shooting in the starting 5 and i dont like the Parker/Monroe pairing in their front court.

Off-Season Grade: D

All their trades were horrible, didn't like their draft pick, and feel like Middleton and Monroe are overpays at the moment.

[loserX]

Basically agree with you guys, but I think Monroe and Middleton got paid market value, and at some point Milwaukee has to show they can play with the big boys. So those are positives for me.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I thought their draft pick was (somewhat) a reach, and I agree with you both that I don't understand the valuations on their trades at all. Some of those guys didn't need to be moved, and even if they did, they didn't need to be dumped. Why go cheap instead of getting back some kind of asset? I don't see the reasoning.

Not 100% sure what my grade is but it's probably in the C range somewhere. FA good, everything else I don't get.

[jazzfan1971]

What was their record after starting MCW again?

[Hawk Eye]

What was their record after starting MCW again?

IIRC, they got him during the all star break and their record was 11-18 after the all star break.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2014_2015_bucks.htm

[HartfordWhalers]

What was their record after starting MCW again?

IIRC, they got him during the all star break and their record was 11-18 after the all star break.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2014_2015_bucks.htm

That is correct, although he didn't play all the games playing in 25 of the 29.

I loved Vaughn as a 2nd rounder back when he was projected there, but he did sneak up awfully high. Still, I give a pass there. Not getting value for Dudley or Zaza hurts. Giving up a first for Vasquez is looney tunes.

Middleton re-signing was needed to avoid a big step back. Monroe is solid, exactly the perfect sort of fit. I'm kinder than both of you which might not happen again, but as bad as everything but Monroe was, he is really a nice get. C+

[H2tObes]

Our bench also went to complete **** after the Knight trade, we went from having the best bench in the league to one of the worst in the same season. All of our bench players just started playing really bad after Knight was traded. We started to adjust to having MCW and began playing better in the playoffs where we showed elite defense while struggling to score the ball. Thinking MCW was the only reason we started sucking is a common misconception

We revamped the bench and can fill in Vasquez for MCW when the spacing is a problem. Dudley is out for the next 5 months so we let him go, we traded Zaza for a TPE. You forgot to mention we signed Copeland so that gives us a decent backup 4 who can stretch the floor.

Vaughn is only 18, he looked great in SL. Lot of Bucks fan are very excited about him. No point in giving expert analysis on draft picks this early, especially one's that weren't even in the lotto

I really have no idea how you think we get that much worse next season. Our roster got better, we traded Zaza for a much better player who even passes better than Zaza, one of Zaza's main attributes, while doing everything else better. Dudley was really bad for the majority of the year and Ersan had almost no value and it was time to part ways. We add Jabari, development from every single young guy, and have an awesome coach in Jason Kidd.

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think anyone on here is knowledgeable enough about all 30 teams to merit making threads like this for each one. You just end up rubbing a lot of fans the wrong way and further distance the mods from the regular posters. Meh. I think it would be a better idea to get the mods from each team board to do an honest analysis of their offseason so we can get some really knowledgeable feedback on teams offseasons

[Magic Giannison]

I Highly disagree with both opinions, not only the off season was great because we got rid of players we didnt need and made space for the future signings but we kept Middleton who is a great shooter and signed a big that nobody expected.
Zaza is mediocre big at best that all he can offer is some phys play, in the rest department he sucks.
Dudley went to terrible after All star break and never score and Ersan i wont even comment on how meaningless he was.

With the moves we did we got better C cleared more room for the young guys and we are focusing on them, thats great on my book.
Only mistake was Vasquez but that doesnt remotely downgrade our season to C- or D.

As for PMOTT3 prediction of us doing worse than the season that we had tons of injuries, no Jabari a sophomore Giannis no Monroe and bunch of terrible bench ( most of the time) then be my guest bu i highly disagree.
Dont wanna to blame you guys or accuse anything but i think you barely watched any Bucks games to think that our moves aren't for the better or the team wont improve.

[Dcebucks11]

What was their record after starting MCW again?

Got worse but not because of MCW and I dont even like MCW,bench play was awful.. Check 82games.com, Bucks were much better with MCW on the court than Knight..

[MoneyTalks41890]

I thought giving away Zaza and Dudley was dumb, but Dudley had that injury that they may have known about. Didn't mind them giving away Illy at all. Clears his contract.

The Vasquez trade was terrible. I don't like their PG rotation. Keeping Knight would have been better for this team imo. But they do have the shooting to cover for MCW.

I loved the Middleton deal. Guy is a two way stud, and that deal certainly could have been bigger.

Like the Monroe fit, and since they cleared other money the contract doesn't bother me much.

Don't know much about Vaughn, but I think Portis would have been a better pick and fit.

I think it's going to be a fun team. I didn't love all of the moves, but I give them a solid C+, and I could be moved to a B- potentially.

[unvi2]

I voted A only because we signed the best FA we had a realistic shot at (Monroe). I understand the argument about what we gave up for Vasquez. I get that we got nothing for Ersan, Pachulia and Dudley( bad back and all, still loved him) ( but what were they really worth anyway?, to us way more than they really were to anyone else). I'm not at all sure about Rashad Vaughn. But all of those pieces are secondary. We will start ( eventually) MCW, KM, GA, JP, and GM. Tweak it if we have to but It's been 15 years since we could say that a Bucks team has a chance to compete. And we didn't sacrifice the future to do it. I vote A.

[Texas Chuck]

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think anyone on here is knowledgeable enough about all 30 teams to merit making threads like this for each one. You just end up rubbing a lot of fans the wrong way and further distance the mods from the regular posters. Meh. I think it would be a better idea to get the mods from each team board to do an honest analysis of their offseason so we can get some really knowledgeable feedback on teams offseasons

Wow dude you are way too sensitive. I mean I predicted 48 wins. If the fact that I didn't love every move the Bucks made makes you lose respect for me as a Mod, I don't think that's an issue with me nearly so much as you.

[H2tObes]

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think anyone on here is knowledgeable enough about all 30 teams to merit making threads like this for each one. You just end up rubbing a lot of fans the wrong way and further distance the mods from the regular posters. Meh. I think it would be a better idea to get the mods from each team board to do an honest analysis of their offseason so we can get some really knowledgeable feedback on teams offseasons

Wow dude you are way too sensitive. I mean I predicted 48 wins. If the fact that I didn't love every move the Bucks made makes you lose respect for me as a Mod, I don't think that's an issue with me nearly so much as you.

No I think you're being too sensitive, I made a suggestion. I actually have us pegged at less wins than you do. Just kind of obvious you guys are playing darts while blindfolded though. These threads really don't have much substance to them. I usually look for the teams fans to come in and get analysis from people who watched the games. Sure I'm not the only one. I wish I could get thoughts categorized like yours from the best posters on each board. Please dont take offense to this, just a suggestion

[MoneyTalks41890]

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think anyone on here is knowledgeable enough about all 30 teams to merit making threads like this for each one. You just end up rubbing a lot of fans the wrong way and further distance the mods from the regular posters. Meh. I think it would be a better idea to get the mods from each team board to do an honest analysis of their offseason so we can get some really knowledgeable feedback on teams offseasons

Wow dude you are way too sensitive. I mean I predicted 48 wins. If the fact that I didn't love every move the Bucks made makes you lose respect for me as a Mod, I don't think that's an issue with me nearly so much as you.

I definitely think getting the mods from team boards to do an "honest analysis" would result in a awful lot of bias and wouldn't be helpful. I appreciate this series, it's been very good thus far. There's no reason to think that knowledgeable NBA fans can't profile other team's moves. I don't agree with everything they've said in their write ups, but they are well reasoned. And it's not a locked thread nor is it gospel, that's where others can give their feedback.

[Domejandro]

I think Rashad Vaughn is a future star, so I loved the draft pick. That said, they spent a lot of money on free agents that I truly felt did not warrant it. I give them a "C".

[Texas Chuck]

That's fine mate. I don't disagree that home team fans are better informed about their teams. The advantage of course of outsiders doing it is an additional layer of objectivity that you simply aren't going to get if you only read opinions of hometown fans. So take the good with the bad, no?

I think you are intentionally being insulting by accusing us of throwing darts especially since coincidentally the only thread we've done that you've taken issue with is the Bucks. It's hard for me to see this as a real opinion, and not just taking personal some criticism of your team. And saying that posters are going to be further distanced from the mods because I make a bad thread about the Bucks is again just needless.

I'd take your feedback much more seriously if you had brought it up before the Bucks. But since you didn't I think PMOTT3 and I will carry on anyway/

[H2tObes]

That's fine mate. I don't disagree that home team fans are better informed about their teams. The advantage of course of outsiders doing it is an additional layer of objectivity that you simply aren't going to get if you only read opinions of hometown fans. So take the good with the bad, no?

I think you are intentionally being insulting by accusing us of throwing darts especially since coincidentally the only thread we've done that you've taken issue with is the Bucks. It's hard for me to see this as a real opinion, and not just taking personal some criticism of your team. And saying that posters are going to be further distanced from the mods because I make a bad thread about the Bucks is again just needless.

I'd take your feedback much more seriously if you had brought it up before the Bucks. But since you didn't I think PMOTT3 and I will carry on anyway/

Well I've been reading RealGM for a while now, these mod 30 team offseason and season prediction threads pop up every offseason. Every single one of these I've ever read about the Bucks is really off and would be much better if you had a good Bucks poster do the anlysis, why would it be all that different for every other team you guys dont watch? I would appreciate if you take the suggestion more seriously because I dont see how it isnt a pretty decent idea. A lot of the mods are excellent posters and have the ability to be unbiased. Just kind of gets less and less credible when the mods talk about other teams though that they really have not much knowledge of

To be honest didn't even realize PMOTT wasn't a mod, that is my bad. I just assumed he was and thats pretty stupid of me. Still though this seems like a quantity over quality type of thing.

[Magic Giannison]

Chuck, it just baffles me how you came to conclusion that Zaza,.Dudley (injured) Ersan( many times injured) are downgrading our grade soo much but adding Monroe and keeping Middletton isnt more important that them ?
Like i've mentioned in my previous post, these guys were bad throughout the season mostly injured and we were forced to play Zaza because we had no other phys big to play as Henson is too soft....
That doesnt make by default a great player to justify the loss.

[Hawk Eye]

Wow. Reading these posts from bucks fans is kinda making me nervous for our next review Chuck. The fanbase of our next team we do might chastise me after reading my review.

[Magic Giannison]

If you cannot handle some criticism in your decisions/opinions then why bothering posting this at all ?
Instead of trying to promote us as the bad missionaries how about actually answering the points we made out ?

[Texas Chuck]

Chuck, it just baffles me how you came to conclusion that Zaza,.Dudley (injured) Ersan( many times injured) are downgrading our grade soo much but adding Monroe and keeping Middletton isnt more important that them ?
.

I do think the team will be better. I thought I made that clear?

The reason the grade isn't better is because they could have done all the moves I liked AND still kept Dudley and Zaza. Yes I know Dudley will miss some time and yes I understand both guys are nothing more than solid role players. But solid role players are really nice to have to get through 82 games where guys are going to get hurt and miss games and nice to have some guys with lots of playoff experience to call on in a big moment in a playoff game.

So I really like the team. I was baffled by the overpay on Grevis and just giving away 2 good players for free when they just didn't need to. So the grade reflects that.