Chuck Texas & PMOTT3's Early Off-Season Review: Milwaukee Bucks

[Texas Chuck]

Well I've been reading RealGM for a while now, these mod 30 team offseason and season prediction threads pop up every offseason. Every single one of these I've ever read about the Bucks is really off and would be much better if you had a good Bucks poster do the anlysis, why would it be all that different for every other team you guys dont watch? I would appreciate if you take the suggestion more seriously because I dont see how it isnt a pretty decent idea. A lot of the mods are excellent posters and have the ability to be unbiased. Just kind of gets less and less credible when the mods talk about other teams though that they really have not much knowledge of

To be honest didn't even realize PMOTT wasn't a mod, that is my bad. I just assumed he was and thats pretty stupid of me. Still though this seems like a quantity over quality type of thing though.

I don't disagree that if you could really get 2 mods from each of the 30 team forums that they couldn't do a better informed series than ours. And I agree that we have plenty of objective fans including some team board mods so yes they could be plenty objective as well.

I'd support you 100% if you want to put that together. I would heavily promote it, sticky threads, whatever.

That suggest is great. Your tone towards a couple guys trying to add some content to a dead time on the forum, less so.

Peace.

[Texas Chuck]

If you cannot handle some criticism in your decisions/opinions then why bothering posting this at all ?
Instead of trying to promote us as the bad missionaries how about actually answering the points we made out ?

Seriously Bucks fans, wth?

I took issue with one guy who made some needless personal comments. I can handle criticism of our content and have addressed those who want to talk about the substance of our posts. I feel like I'm on some Bizarro world.

[Magic Giannison]

Chuck, it just baffles me how you came to conclusion that Zaza,.Dudley (injured) Ersan( many times injured) are downgrading our grade soo much but adding Monroe and keeping Middletton isnt more important that them ?
.

I do think the team will be better. I thought I made that clear?

The reason the grade isn't better is because they could have done all the moves I liked AND still kept Dudley and Zaza. Yes I know Dudley will miss some time and yes I understand both guys are nothing more than solid role players. But solid role players are really nice to have to get through 82 games where guys are going to get hurt and miss games and nice to have some guys with lots of playoff experience to call on in a big moment in a playoff game.

So I really like the team. I was baffled by the overpay on Grevis and just giving away 2 good players for free when they just didn't need to. So the grade reflects that.

I could agree about that if we were talking about first half of the season but its totally opposite for the rest of it.
Dudley in the first half and the bench contributed a lot, they provided scoring and help we needed.The thing is after that it was over, Dudley starting to play bad, then got injured and never came back to his form and was atrocious.
Ersan , besides few games and some shots he was terrible.
Zaza, probably the brightest piece of them all as we where forced ( like i explained above) to play him against strong bigs as Henson is soft.Still Zaza lost us games, he was making terrible outside shots ,some bad defense and so on.

All you have to do is check that after all star we had one of the worse bench in the NBA after having the 2nd best one pre ALL star.
The Reason we did well si ebcause all of our starting 5 improved in scoring and other areas,check Giannis, MCW, Middletton and Henson all star stats and tell me if they werent the one that contributed 90% of the post all star wins/performance.
These guys also were the one that got us 2 wins in the play offs.

Also, think about the Contract Zaza, Ersan and Dudley got and how these could influence the future of keeping Giannis Jabari MCW especially after Monroe and Middleton signings, they had big contracts.
Dudley in the lastest podcast relieved that he was injured and asked Bucks to trade him to the wizzards.

We still go other guys to help off the Bench but this time we wont be depending on the 12-14 players rotation like we did last year but give more time to our core to polish and develop together, especially as Jabari returns.
I hope i made some stuff clear about why i personally disagree with you guys.

[Hawk Eye]

If you cannot handle some criticism in your decisions/opinions then why bothering posting this at all ?
Instead of trying to promote us as the bad missionaries how about actually answering the points we made out ?

I was being completely facetious in my post and can assure you that i can handle criticism just fine. I dont think ill be going home to my wife after work tonight tonight in tears because a bucks poster didnt agree with my review of their off-season.

[Magic Giannison]

If you cannot handle some criticism in your decisions/opinions then why bothering posting this at all ?
Instead of trying to promote us as the bad missionaries how about actually answering the points we made out ?

Seriously Bucks fans, wth?

I took issue with one guy who made some needless personal comments. I can handle criticism of our content and have addressed those who want to talk about the substance of our posts. I feel like I'm on some Bizarro world.

I was referring to PMOTT3's sarcastic post of phobia he made . there is no reason to be defensive Chuck.
Why you have to be so magically shocked when people disagree strongly with someone opinions, isnt that the reason how discussion is made and debates are analyzed ?

[Magic Giannison]

If you cannot handle some criticism in your decisions/opinions then why bothering posting this at all ?
Instead of trying to promote us as the bad missionaries how about actually answering the points we made out ?

I was being completely facetious in my post and can assure you that i can handle criticism just fine. I dont think ill be going home to my wife after work tonight tonight in tears because a bucks poster didnt agree with my review of their off-season.

Neither will i so we are good in that department.
Instead of adding more more oil tot he fire you could simply answer to the points like Chuck did, trust me, nobody wants to eat you or Chucks for your opinions, we just disagree.

[bondom34]

I went with a C for a mixed bag of stuff I loved and hated. Loved basically every FA signing, wasn't a fan of the Zaza/Vasquez trades, was neutral on Vaughn, and the Dudley deal looked worse until it was found out he's injured. So I feel like a C for the offseason but they're still expected to improve by me due to the FA deals and internal growth.

[Texas Chuck]

Spoiler:

I could agree about that if we were talking about first half of the season but its totally opposite for the rest of it.
Dudley in the first half and the bench contributed a lot, they provided scoring and help we needed.The thing is after that it was over, Dudley starting to play bad, then got injured and never came back to his form and was atrocious.
Ersan , besides few games and some shots he was terrible.
Zaza, probably the brightest piece of them all as we where forced ( like i explained above) to play him against strong bigs as Henson is soft.Still Zaza lost us games, he was making terrible outside shots ,some bad defense and so on.

All you have to do is check that after all star we had one of the worse bench in the NBA after having the 2nd best one pre ALL star.
The Reason we did well si ebcause all of our starting 5 improved in scoring and other areas,check Giannis, MCW, Middletton and Henson all star stats and tell me if they werent the one that contributed 90% of the post all star wins/performance.
These guys also were the one that got us 2 wins in the play offs.

Also, think about the Contract Zaza, Ersan and Dudley got and how these could influence the future of keeping Giannis Jabari MCW especially after Monroe and Middleton signings, they had big contracts.
Dudley in the lastest podcast relieved that he was injured and asked Bucks to trade him to the wizzards.

We still go other guys to help off the Bench but this time we wont be depending on the 12-14 players rotation like we did last year but give more time to our core to polish and develop together, especially as Jabari returns.
I hope i made some stuff clear about why i personally disagree with you guys.

yeah where we disgree is with this notion that Dudley and Zaza aren't more valuable than not having them. And I don't understand at all your concerns about salary. They both expire so new contracts to Jabari/Giannis/MCW would not be impacted and the team would still be well under the tax line for this year. I understand ownership wanting to save money so I understand why the moves were made. I just think the Bucks are too good to move useful players like that in a salary dump.

[Magic Giannison]

Spoiler:

I could agree about that if we were talking about first half of the season but its totally opposite for the rest of it.
Dudley in the first half and the bench contributed a lot, they provided scoring and help we needed.The thing is after that it was over, Dudley starting to play bad, then got injured and never came back to his form and was atrocious.
Ersan , besides few games and some shots he was terrible.
Zaza, probably the brightest piece of them all as we where forced ( like i explained above) to play him against strong bigs as Henson is soft.Still Zaza lost us games, he was making terrible outside shots ,some bad defense and so on.

All you have to do is check that after all star we had one of the worse bench in the NBA after having the 2nd best one pre ALL star.
The Reason we did well si ebcause all of our starting 5 improved in scoring and other areas,check Giannis, MCW, Middletton and Henson all star stats and tell me if they werent the one that contributed 90% of the post all star wins/performance.
These guys also were the one that got us 2 wins in the play offs.

Also, think about the Contract Zaza, Ersan and Dudley got and how these could influence the future of keeping Giannis Jabari MCW especially after Monroe and Middleton signings, they had big contracts.
Dudley in the lastest podcast relieved that he was injured and asked Bucks to trade him to the wizzards.

We still go other guys to help off the Bench but this time we wont be depending on the 12-14 players rotation like we did last year but give more time to our core to polish and develop together, especially as Jabari returns.
I hope i made some stuff clear about why i personally disagree with you guys.

yeah where we disgree is with this notion that Dudley and Zaza aren't more valuable than not having them. And I don't understand at all your concerns about salary. They both expire so new contracts to Jabari/Giannis/MCW would not be impacted and the team would still be well under the tax line for this year. I understand ownership wanting to save money so I understand why the moves were made. I just think the Bucks are too good to move useful players like that in a salary dump.

That doesnt mean they contributed nearly enough through whole season to justify paying them these money ,why not getting more addition to support the young core and let the our starting 5 play more minutes ?
It was a fact that they both stole playtime from the young as we where rotation everyone, for Kidd it was a year where he gave everyone a chance.
Zaza got no room with Henson and Monroe added and Plumlee and Dudley was simply underperforming terribly and wanted to get traded to Wizzards . So we clear money and let the young play.
The reason we had the veterans was to help the youngs to get into the game and by being locker room leaders but now we have transitioned from that and we simply do not need them and the stats/performance proves the Bucks right as they saw the young core taking wins without them, without a bench in a year without jabari,injuries, new teamate in MCW and so on.

The biggest reason in my opinion why we got rid of them,besides of the performance issues was that we decided to rely on our young core and give them more time.

[HartfordWhalers]

Spoiler:

I could agree about that if we were talking about first half of the season but its totally opposite for the rest of it.
Dudley in the first half and the bench contributed a lot, they provided scoring and help we needed.The thing is after that it was over, Dudley starting to play bad, then got injured and never came back to his form and was atrocious.
Ersan , besides few games and some shots he was terrible.
Zaza, probably the brightest piece of them all as we where forced ( like i explained above) to play him against strong bigs as Henson is soft.Still Zaza lost us games, he was making terrible outside shots ,some bad defense and so on.

All you have to do is check that after all star we had one of the worse bench in the NBA after having the 2nd best one pre ALL star.
The Reason we did well si ebcause all of our starting 5 improved in scoring and other areas,check Giannis, MCW, Middletton and Henson all star stats and tell me if they werent the one that contributed 90% of the post all star wins/performance.
These guys also were the one that got us 2 wins in the play offs.

Also, think about the Contract Zaza, Ersan and Dudley got and how these could influence the future of keeping Giannis Jabari MCW especially after Monroe and Middleton signings, they had big contracts.
Dudley in the lastest podcast relieved that he was injured and asked Bucks to trade him to the wizzards.

We still go other guys to help off the Bench but this time we wont be depending on the 12-14 players rotation like we did last year but give more time to our core to polish and develop together, especially as Jabari returns.
I hope i made some stuff clear about why i personally disagree with you guys.

yeah where we disgree is with this notion that Dudley and Zaza aren't more valuable than not having them. And I don't understand at all your concerns about salary. They both expire so new contracts to Jabari/Giannis/MCW would not be impacted and the team would still be well under the tax line for this year. I understand ownership wanting to save money so I understand why the moves were made. I just think the Bucks are too good to move useful players like that in a salary dump.

That doesnt mean they contributed nearly enough through whole season to justify paying them these money ,why not getting more addition to support the young core and let the our starting 5 play more minutes ?
It was a fact that they both stole playtime from the young as we where rotation everyone, for Kidd it was a year where he gave everyone a chance.
Zaza got no room with Henson and Monroe added and Plumlee and Dudley was simply underperforming terribly and wanted to get traded to Wizzards . So we clear money and let the young play.
The reason we had the veterans was to help the youngs to get into the game and by being locker room leaders but now we have transitioned from that and we simply do not need them and the stats/performance proves the Bucks right as they saw the young core taking wins without them, without a bench in a year without jabari,injuries, new teamate in MCW and so on.

The biggest reason in my opinion why we got rid of them,besides of the performance issues was that we decided to rely on our young core and give them more time.

For all the talk about how Milwaukee fell off last year post trade deadline because they lacked bench, it is amazing that the choice to trade away guys who were 3rd, 4th, and 8th in minutes played for nothing is okay.

[Magic Giannison]

yeah where we disgree is with this notion that Dudley and Zaza aren't more valuable than not having them. And I don't understand at all your concerns about salary. They both expire so new contracts to Jabari/Giannis/MCW would not be impacted and the team would still be well under the tax line for this year. I understand ownership wanting to save money so I understand why the moves were made. I just think the Bucks are too good to move useful players like that in a salary dump.

That doesnt mean they contributed nearly enough through whole season to justify paying them these money ,why not getting more addition to support the young core and let the our starting 5 play more minutes ?
It was a fact that they both stole playtime from the young as we where rotation everyone, for Kidd it was a year where he gave everyone a chance.
Zaza got no room with Henson and Monroe added and Plumlee and Dudley was simply underperforming terribly and wanted to get traded to Wizzards . So we clear money and let the young play.
The reason we had the veterans was to help the youngs to get into the game and by being locker room leaders but now we have transitioned from that and we simply do not need them and the stats/performance proves the Bucks right as they saw the young core taking wins without them, without a bench in a year without jabari,injuries, new teamate in MCW and so on.

The biggest reason in my opinion why we got rid of them,besides of the performance issues was that we decided to rely on our young core and give them more time.

For all the talk about how Milwaukee fell off last year post trade deadline because they lacked bench, it is amazing that the choice to trade away guys who were 3rd, 4th, and 8th in minutes played for nothing is okay.

They ARE the reason on why the bench gone terrible, with their performance, thats what im arguing about.
The stats are there, after post all star they contributed almost nothing while our starting 5 did everything. We had games where we were having big leads and then the bench killed us, it was one of our biggest problems.
Who would offer us anything for an injured Dudley after that performance ? We got a second from him and not to mention the player WANTED to go there, the Bucks simply didn't made it harder for him and Zaza.

Zaza could be a better argument in terms of value but think about it, in the Monreo addition with Henson and Plumlee where would you put Zaza into ? isn't the whole point of Bucks is to promote the young core and give them more minutes , why going to the same 12-14 rotation playstile we had last year ? Why Keep Zaza when you extend Henson contract in order to keep him more, dont you want to give him more playtime ?

It all comes to sense, especially for a team that depends on its young core and strives with the #ownthefuture logo.

[HartfordWhalers]

That doesnt mean they contributed nearly enough through whole season to justify paying them these money ,why not getting more addition to support the young core and let the our starting 5 play more minutes ?
It was a fact that they both stole playtime from the young as we where rotation everyone, for Kidd it was a year where he gave everyone a chance.
Zaza got no room with Henson and Monroe added and Plumlee and Dudley was simply underperforming terribly and wanted to get traded to Wizzards . So we clear money and let the young play.
The reason we had the veterans was to help the youngs to get into the game and by being locker room leaders but now we have transitioned from that and we simply do not need them and the stats/performance proves the Bucks right as they saw the young core taking wins without them, without a bench in a year without jabari,injuries, new teamate in MCW and so on.

The biggest reason in my opinion why we got rid of them,besides of the performance issues was that we decided to rely on our young core and give them more time.

For all the talk about how Milwaukee fell off last year post trade deadline because they lacked bench, it is amazing that the choice to trade away guys who were 3rd, 4th, and 8th in minutes played for nothing is okay.

They ARE the reason on why the bench gone terrible, with their performance, thats what im arguing about.
The stats are there, after post all star they contributed almost nothing while our starting 5 did everything. We had games where we were having big leads and then the bench killed us, it was one of our biggest problems.
Who would offer us anything for an injured Dudley after that performance ? We got a second from him and not to mention the player WANTED to go there, the Bucks simply didn't made it harder for him and Zaza.

Zaza could be a better argument in terms of value but think about it, in the Monreo addition with Henson and Plumlee where would you put Zaza into ? isn't the whole point of Bucks is to promote the young core and give them more minutes , why going to the same 12-14 rotation playstile we had last year ? Why Keep Zaza when you extend Henson contract in order to keep him more, dont you want to give him more playtime ?

It all comes to sense, especially for a team that depends on its young core and strives with the #ownthefuture logo.

Milwaukee didn't get a 2nd unless Washington is a top 5 team in the league and the 2nd is roughly worthless and even for all that it is in 5 years. The Dallas pick is similar:

2020 second round draft pick from Washington
Washington's 2020 2nd round pick to Milwaukee protected for selections 31-55 [Milwaukee-Washington, 7/9/2015]

2018 second round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 2018 2nd round pick to Milwaukee protected for selections 31-55 [Dallas-Milwaukee, 7/9/2015]

Post All star game, Zaza was still a starter, and his numbers improved. And you can still extend Henson as the extension starts next season not this one, so there is no issue money-wise.

Ersan's numbers were (significantly) better post All-star game.

As for Dudley, his numbers fell off but he was injured. He's expected back at full within the first month of the season. Maybe he isn;t as good as his pre-all star split, but post surgery he should be a lot better than his post-all star split.

Milwaukee got poor value on at least two swaps (three counting Vasquez), and thinned a previously thin team all while hoping to be a playoff team and maybe even one with HCA in one series. If you are trying to take a step back that makes sense.

[Magic Giannison]

Spoiler:

For all the talk about how Milwaukee fell off last year post trade deadline because they lacked bench, it is amazing that the choice to trade away guys who were 3rd, 4th, and 8th in minutes played for nothing is okay.

They ARE the reason on why the bench gone terrible, with their performance, thats what im arguing about.
The stats are there, after post all star they contributed almost nothing while our starting 5 did everything. We had games where we were having big leads and then the bench killed us, it was one of our biggest problems.
Who would offer us anything for an injured Dudley after that performance ? We got a second from him and not to mention the player WANTED to go there, the Bucks simply didn't made it harder for him and Zaza.

Zaza could be a better argument in terms of value but think about it, in the Monreo addition with Henson and Plumlee where would you put Zaza into ? isn't the whole point of Bucks is to promote the young core and give them more minutes , why going to the same 12-14 rotation playstile we had last year ? Why Keep Zaza when you extend Henson contract in order to keep him more, dont you want to give him more playtime ?

It all comes to sense, especially for a team that depends on its young core and strives with the #ownthefuture logo.

Milwaukee didn't get a 2nd unless Washington is a top 5 team in the league and the 2nd is roughly worthless and even for all that it is in 5 years. The Dallas pick is similar:

2020 second round draft pick from Washington
Washington's 2020 2nd round pick to Milwaukee protected for selections 31-55 [Milwaukee-Washington, 7/9/2015]

2018 second round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 2018 2nd round pick to Milwaukee protected for selections 31-55 [Dallas-Milwaukee, 7/9/2015]

Post All star game, Zaza was still a starter, and his numbers improved. And you can still extend Henson as the extension starts next season not this one, so there is no issue money-wise.

Ersan's numbers were (significantly) better post All-star game.

As for Dudley, his numbers fell off but he was injured. He's expected back at full within the first month of the season. Maybe he isn;t as good as his pre-all star split, but post surgery he should be a lot better than his post-all star split.

Milwaukee got poor value on at least two swaps (three counting Vasquez), and thinned a previously thin team all while hoping to be a playoff team and maybe even one with HCA in one series. If you are trying to take a step back that makes sense.

It doesn't matter, like i've said we couldn't get anything from Dudley anyway and he wanted to leave.
I explained about Zaza starter thing, we simply couldnt use Henson against strong bigs as he was overwhelmed by them so he was our only choice, doesnt mean the better but the only one we had.

Ersan numbers got better because he played 11 more minutes more on average and the last games boosted his stats. The month of January,February and March he was negative in everything.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/101141/stats/
Check the advanced stats for each month if you like.

Our only bad deal which i fully agree is Vasquez as we gave them a first ( even tho it seems its gonna be a late one) for him.
We basically got rid of big contracts for players that we wouldnt even use this season. I explained above that Zaza simply had no room to this team,w e already got 3 bigs.
Ersan doesnt cut in with jabari returning and Inglis on the roster.We also did add Chris Copeland for 1,1 mil to cover anything missing in the SF PF spot.
Dudley was simply BAD in his overall season,terrible in the post all star ( and no he wasn't injured for months ) and everything support that.

How does one makes a step back by giving their young cores more playtime ?
We still got a bench but we wont be depending on it as much like we did last year, why it is so surprising when all big teams are doing exactly this ?

[HartfordWhalers]

Spoiler:

They ARE the reason on why the bench gone terrible, with their performance, thats what im arguing about.
The stats are there, after post all star they contributed almost nothing while our starting 5 did everything. We had games where we were having big leads and then the bench killed us, it was one of our biggest problems.
Who would offer us anything for an injured Dudley after that performance ? We got a second from him and not to mention the player WANTED to go there, the Bucks simply didn't made it harder for him and Zaza.

Zaza could be a better argument in terms of value but think about it, in the Monreo addition with Henson and Plumlee where would you put Zaza into ? isn't the whole point of Bucks is to promote the young core and give them more minutes , why going to the same 12-14 rotation playstile we had last year ? Why Keep Zaza when you extend Henson contract in order to keep him more, dont you want to give him more playtime ?

It all comes to sense, especially for a team that depends on its young core and strives with the #ownthefuture logo.


It doesn't matter, like i've said we couldn't get anything from Dudley anyway and he wanted to leave.
I explained about Zaza starter thing, we simply couldnt use Henson against strong bigs as he was overwhelmed by them so he was our only choice, doesnt mean the better but the only one we had.

Ersan numbers got better because he played 11 more minutes more on average and the last games boosted his stats. The month of January,February and March he was negative in everything.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/101141/stats/
Check the advanced stats for each month if you like.

Our only bad deal which i fully agree is Vasquez as we gave them a first ( even tho it seems its gonna be a late one) for him.
We basically got rid of big contracts for players that we wouldnt even use this season. I explained above that Zaza simply had no room to this team,w e already got 3 bigs.
Ersan doesnt cut in with jabari returning and Inglis on the roster.We also did add Chris Copeland for 1,1 mil to cover anything missing in the SF PF spot.
Dudley was simply BAD in his overall season,terrible in the post all star ( and no he wasn't injured for months ) and everything support that.

How does one makes a step back by giving their young cores more playtime ?
We still got a bench but we wont be depending on it as much like we did last year, why it is so surprising when all big teams are doing exactly this ?

Here is the full All star Split:

18.1 pp 36 minutes, 7.1 rp 36, 1.4 ap 36 53.2% TS pre-All star game.
18.4 pp 36 minutes, 7.8 rp 36, 1.6 ap 36 56.9% TS% post-All star game.

Not just did Ersan log more minutes, he scored more efficiently during them and rebounded more per minute etc. All his numbers are better.

[Magic Giannison]

Spoiler:

Ersan numbers got better because he played 11 more minutes more on average and the last games boosted his stats. The month of January,February and March he was negative in everything.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/101141/stats/
Check the advanced stats for each month if you like.

Our only bad deal which i fully agree is Vasquez as we gave them a first ( even tho it seems its gonna be a late one) for him.
We basically got rid of big contracts for players that we wouldnt even use this season. I explained above that Zaza simply had no room to this team,w e already got 3 bigs.
Ersan doesnt cut in with jabari returning and Inglis on the roster.We also did add Chris Copeland for 1,1 mil to cover anything missing in the SF PF spot.
Dudley was simply BAD in his overall season,terrible in the post all star ( and no he wasn't injured for months ) and everything support that.

How does one makes a step back by giving their young cores more playtime ?
We still got a bench but we wont be depending on it as much like we did last year, why it is so surprising when all big teams are doing exactly this ?

Here is the full All star Split:

18.1 pp 36 minutes, 7.1 rp 36, 1.4 ap 36 53.2% TS pre-All star game.
18.4 pp 36 minutes, 7.8 rp 36, 1.6 ap 36 56.9% TS% post-All star game.

Not just did Ersan log more minutes, he scored more efficiently during them and rebounded more per minute etc. All his numbers are better.

Which is not essentially better like you said and why are we using per again to boost his stats when he played significantly less minutes which inflates his numbers. Comparing him to Giannis for example proves that Ersan was significantly better? even more to Middletton who is a shooter ?
Where exactly even in these numbers he improved essentially like you claimed, everything besides 3pt % were the same ?
Should i mention of how much of defensive liability he was ?
We know Ersan for years and we wanted him gone since last year.
My above points stand as they are.

[ReKon]

I don t get the fuss really.Chuck did predict we ll have a better record even though he believes we had an average offseason

I gave our offseason an A though i was leaning more towards B+.The importance of the Monroe signing is being a bit underwhelming but hey we got an important free agent to come to Milwaukee and further enhance our young core.With internal growth(All of our starters from last year besides Jabari have one more year and some playoff experience under their belt and Monroe is a big upgrade over anything we had at Center whether that was Zaza or Henson)i don t think that anyone can blame us for being optimistic.

Granted the trades didn t net much in return but they were minor trades especially since the FO probably knew about Dudley s injury.And everyone hates the Greivis trade though Kidd seems to have an affinity for long PGs.This year should be about internal growth getting Jabari back on the court and getting more Playoff experience.The organisation seems to be moving towards thee right direction bad trades or not and that s what really matters

[AussieBuck]

I agree with the offseason analysis for the most part. Should be a very rough start to the season but if MCW is dumped in a timely fashion and Jabari isn't too rusty we could be a winning team. Giannis at PF helps the defense and it is his natural position so hopefully that happens. He and Jabari should be able to take all the PF minutes once Jabari's back.

[HartfordWhalers]

Ersan numbers got better because he played 11 more minutes more on average and the last games boosted his stats. The month of January,February and March he was negative in everything.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/101141/stats/
Check the advanced stats for each month if you like.

Our only bad deal which i fully agree is Vasquez as we gave them a first ( even tho it seems its gonna be a late one) for him.
We basically got rid of big contracts for players that we wouldnt even use this season. I explained above that Zaza simply had no room to this team,w e already got 3 bigs.
Ersan doesnt cut in with jabari returning and Inglis on the roster.We also did add Chris Copeland for 1,1 mil to cover anything missing in the SF PF spot.
Dudley was simply BAD in his overall season,terrible in the post all star ( and no he wasn't injured for months ) and everything support that.

How does one makes a step back by giving their young cores more playtime ?
We still got a bench but we wont be depending on it as much like we did last year, why it is so surprising when all big teams are doing exactly this ?

Here is the full All star Split:

18.1 pp 36 minutes, 7.1 rp 36, 1.4 ap 36 53.2% TS pre-All star game.
18.4 pp 36 minutes, 7.8 rp 36, 1.6 ap 36 56.9% TS% post-All star game.

Not just did Ersan log more minutes, he scored more efficiently during them and rebounded more per minute etc. All his numbers are better.

Which is not essentially better like you said and why are we using per again to boost his stats when he played significantly less minutes which inflates his numbers. Comparing him to Giannis for example proves that Ersan was significantly better? even more to Middletton who is a shooter ?
Where exactly even in these numbers he improved essentially like you claimed, everything besides 3pt % were the same ?
Should i mention of how much of defensive liability he was ?
We know Ersan for years and we wanted him gone since last year.
My above points stand as they are.

We both agreed he played more minutes post all star game above. You then claimed that his numbers were only better cause of those more minutes. Now when I point out that his stats were also better per minute, it is suddenly sure but he played less minutes? No.

He played more minutes post all star game:

Pre All star game: 17.5 mpg
Post All star game: 28.4 mpg.

What are actual easily verifiable stats suddenly in doubt today?

[Magic Giannison]

Here is the full All star Split:

18.1 pp 36 minutes, 7.1 rp 36, 1.4 ap 36 53.2% TS pre-All star game.
18.4 pp 36 minutes, 7.8 rp 36, 1.6 ap 36 56.9% TS% post-All star game.

Not just did Ersan log more minutes, he scored more efficiently during them and rebounded more per minute etc. All his numbers are better.

Which is not essentially better like you said and why are we using per again to boost his stats when he played significantly less minutes which inflates his numbers. Comparing him to Giannis for example proves that Ersan was significantly better? even more to Middletton who is a shooter ?
Where exactly even in these numbers he improved essentially like you claimed, everything besides 3pt % were the same ?
Should i mention of how much of defensive liability he was ?
We know Ersan for years and we wanted him gone since last year.
My above points stand as they are.

We both agreed he played more minutes post all star game above. You then claimed that his numbers were only better cause of those more minutes. Now when I point out that his stats were also better per minute, it is suddenly sure but he played less minutes? No.

He played more minutes post all star game:

Pre All star game: 17.5 mpg
Post All star game: 28.4 mpg.

What are actual easily verifiable stats suddenly in doubt today?

No, im saying that you cannot simply use compare it to the others that played much more than him ,its like taking O bryant per 36 and making him looking a good player when he actually isnt.
The per 36 for Ersan in this case is that .,it doesnt show the true picture. Also, defense.
The only thing you can take from this comparison you brought is that he was stable and close to same with his pre all star performance.
Sometimes the stats cannot show the whole picture now matter how much we wish them to, different stats can show different things depending on how we look at them, the +- is the best example of that.

Anyway my point was even Ersan per se but Zaza and Dudley ( especially Dudley ) as Ersan can be easily be excused for the Monroe sign.

P.S He also didnt play as many games pre all star due to some injuries.

[HartfordWhalers]

Which is not essentially better like you said and why are we using per again to boost his stats when he played significantly less minutes which inflates his numbers. Comparing him to Giannis for example proves that Ersan was significantly better? even more to Middletton who is a shooter ?
Where exactly even in these numbers he improved essentially like you claimed, everything besides 3pt % were the same ?
Should i mention of how much of defensive liability he was ?
We know Ersan for years and we wanted him gone since last year.
My above points stand as they are.

We both agreed he played more minutes post all star game above. You then claimed that his numbers were only better cause of those more minutes. Now when I point out that his stats were also better per minute, it is suddenly sure but he played less minutes? No.

He played more minutes post all star game:

Pre All star game: 17.5 mpg
Post All star game: 28.4 mpg.

What are actual easily verifiable stats suddenly in doubt today?

No, im saying that you cannot simply use compare it to the others that played much more than him ,its like taking O bryant per 36 and making him looking a good player when he actually isnt.
The per 36 for Ersan in this case is that .,it doesnt show the true picture. Also, defense.
The only thing you can take from this comparison you brought is that he was stable and close to same with his pre all star performance.
Sometimes the stats cannot show the whole picture now matter how much we wish them to, different stats can show different things depending on how we look at them, the +- is the best example of that.

Anyway my point was even Ersan per se but Zaza and Dudley ( especially Dudley ) as Ersan can be easily be excused for the Monroe sign.

P.S He also didnt play as many games pre all star due to some injuries.

The gap in his scoring efficiency is pretty huge. And he did it in more minutes. And the rebounding getting better was nice.

Seems to me that Zaza and Ersan both definitely played better post all star game, so when you say that the reason Milwaukee fell apart post All star break was those guys it just isn't true.

Then again, today is the day that actual data doesn't matter on this forum, so why not?