Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[sunsfever68]

I can't wait for Keef to shut everyone up. A lot of people need to realize Marcus was the crazy one. Also, I've said before the season ended, Suns are not trading Markieff Morris.. That's Robert Sarver's favorite Sun. Unless they get an allstar back, Keef is here to stay for a very long time. Sarver actually agreed with what Keef said about the fans but couldn't say it publicly of course.

Keef's more of a professional than you guys think. He's all about the team, and winning. Has he made mistakes? Sure. Give him another chance.

Personally, I think Keef said what we all want to say about Suns fans. Boring and quiet in the arena. The game before vs the Thunder, fans were so bad and it was an entertaining game. He should have kept it to himself but oh well.


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THIS X10000000

Our fans at the arena are easily the worst in the NBA. We're absolutely awful no home court advantage whatsoever. I was a ballboy in 2007 and it wasn't even that loud I only remember it crazy loud for Western Conference finals or when we played the lakers or spurs.

Marcus is the doucher Keef wasn't. He'll be fine and he's right to call out our fans they're absolutely awful at the games I get looked at for cheering really loudly and yelling like I'm crazy.

You want boring?! Go to the office and sit in a cubicle I'm at a game I'm not going to casually watch when it's my favorite team.

[Mr-Al]

While we're at it, why don't we trade Brandon Knight for Kobe? He's a decade older and a bigger name, and would've made the all-star team if healthy. Who's with me?

this

people need to stfu about Gasol, this isn't 2008

[saintEscaton]

Man this fiasco needs to be resolved already. Hope this doesn't drag out until Kieff holes himself up into oblivion.The mourning period has long passed and Kieff must realize the precarious situation he put himself in due his past transgressions. The FO shouldn't lengthen the leash that he will hang himself by. If his head doesn't 'check out and he's not all in come camp its time to cut loose the deadweight. But they seem to be at irreconcilable crossroads. Until then... Fiddle me a sad tune

[Sunsdeuce]

Just the mere fact there is a debate with everyone about Keif, shows he isn't more than just a role player. If he was more than just a role player no one would be debating.

[Sunsdeuce]

Man this fiasco needs to be resolved already. The mourning period has long passed and Kieff must realize the precarious situation he put himself in due his past transgressions. The FO shouldn't lengthen the leash that he will hang himself by. If his head doesn't 'check out and he's not all in come camp its time to cut loose the deadweight. But they seem to be at irreconcilable crossroads. Until then... Fiddle me a sad tune

This picture just makes me want to punch him more. I can't stand lebron. Biggest douche that tries to come off as a educated nice guy. K, I'm done.

[RunDogGun]

Well to break up the Keef hate/somewhat love?, I was watching NickJr with my kids, and during the break they show part of the show Yo Gabba Gabba, and it has Amare teaching the crew a basketball dribble dance, in his Suns' warm ups. Funny stuff.

[Qwigglez]

Crazy that you guys would rather have a 15/6/.5 guy over an all-star starter who got 18.5/12/2. Kieff shot .465% and Gasol shot almost 50%. I'd really want our starting PF to shoot at least .485%. Gasol actually can shoot the corner three with ease IMO.
Talking about Pau's age, didn't our GM just say something about lengthy 7 footers who play well into their mid thirties? Duncan & Dirk were his examples, I don't see why Pau would suddenly drop off either.

I know it's not gonna happen but Pau is definitely the better player, and will continue to be for the next two years at least. I'm hoping Kieff will turn the corner this upcoming season and get 17/8 while shooting better than 48%, but I don't think he'll ever, in his entire career average 18.5/12/2 for one season. Here's hoping I'm wrong and Kieff will become a Aldridge/Sheed lite someday (while playing for the Suns of course).

[saintEscaton]

Well to break up the Keef hate/somewhat love?, I was watching NickJr with my kids, and during the break they show part of the show Yo Gabba Gabba, and it has Amare teaching the crew a basketball dribble dance, in his Suns' warm ups. Funny stuff.

[suns91fan]

Crazy that you guys would rather have a 15/6/.5 guy over an all-star starter who got 18.5/12/2. Kieff shot .465% and Gasol shot almost 50%. I'd really want our starting PF to shoot at least .485%. Gasol actually can shoot the corner three with ease IMO.
Talking about Pau's age, didn't our GM just say something about lengthy 7 footers who play well into their mid thirties? Duncan & Dirk were his examples, I don't see why Pau would suddenly drop off either.

I know it's not gonna happen but Pau is definitely the better player, and will continue to be for the next two years at least. I'm hoping Kieff will turn the corner this upcoming season and get 17/8 while shooting better than 48%, but I don't think he'll ever, in his entire career average 18.5/12/2 for one season. Here's hoping I'm wrong and Kieff will become a Aldridge/Sheed lite someday (while playing for the Suns of course).

Gasol's defense is atrocious. I don't think anything else needs to be said about him.

[sunsfever68]

For the future I"m interested in the guard rotation

Bledsoe and Archie Can't shoot
Knight and Booker and Bogdanovic can shoot

That's 5 guards.

I'm fine with having Bledsoe/Knight on the court at all times as the point guard and having Goodwin and Booker be the 2 guards off the bench. Keep a guy like Mike James for emergencies.

How does Bogdanovic fit in? I think Archie still has a lot of potential as a guy who can get to the rack and score, he obviously needs to work on his shot but it's coming along.

I think if anyone goes it's Archie bc Booker is going to be Klay Thompson 2.0 he's very court smart he won't be a bust.



TJ Warren also needs to play with shooters and bigs who let him operate and drive to the basket. He needs to show me more on defense and rebounding and not just be a pure scorer bc he can't shoot he's got some holes in his game.

[bigfoot]

Sarver actually agreed with what Keef said about the fans but couldn't say it publicly of course.

Then Sarver is really a bonehead if he agrees with Kief on the fans being bad. If you've got the channels to Robert then he needs to be told that his corporate mentally has destroyed the Suns fan base. Tickets in the lower bowl are primarily held by corporations who hand them out like candy to clients. You think their clients are all Suns fans? That's why you hear more fans cheering for the other team. I see so many Lakers/Heat/Cavs fans in the lower bowl it's pathetic. It's also why you see so many empty seats. I swear half the people in the lower bowl stand around in the catered food area drinking, eating, and primping instead of watching the game. It's damn disgusting but when only corporations can afford to buy the good tickets then Sarver gets what he deserves.

[Qwigglez]

Gasol's defense is atrocious. I don't think anything else needs to be said about him.

And Kieff has stellar defense? That's why we brought in Chandler.

[suns91fan]

Gasol's defense is atrocious. I don't think anything else needs to be said about him.

And Kieff has stellar defense? That's why we brought in Chandler.

Yes, Kieff is a solid defender. Leaps and bounds above Gasol.

Edit: Just so i don't have to look into advanced stats right now, here's an article that explains just how important Markieff is for Suns defense. http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2015/03/06/pay-attention-to-markieff-morris/

[saintEscaton]

Sarver actually agreed with what Keef said about the fans but couldn't say it publicly of course.

Then Sarver is really a bonehead if he agrees with Kief on the fans being bad. If you've got the channels to Robert then he needs to be told that his corporate mentally has destroyed the Suns fan base. Tickets in the lower bowl are primarily held by corporations who hand them out like candy to clients. You think their clients are all Suns fans? That's why you hear more fans cheering for the other team. I see so many Lakers/Heat/Cavs fans in the lower bowl it's pathetic. It's also why you see so many empty seats. I swear half the people in the lower bowl stand around in the catered food area drinking, eating, and primping instead of watching the game. It's damn disgusting but when only corporations can afford to buy the good tickets then Sarver gets what he deserves.

I fully agree. Being Sarver's pet player isn't exactly a glowing endorsement. Put out a product worth seeing that justifies the exorbitant price of entry or suffer the lowly attendance rate. Also the reserved hospitality spaces bought up for no shows should be reduced and made accessible to actual fans

[AtheJ415]

Crazy that you guys would rather have a 15/6/.5 guy over an all-star starter who got 18.5/12/2. Kieff shot .465% and Gasol shot almost 50%. I'd really want our starting PF to shoot at least .485%. Gasol actually can shoot the corner three with ease IMO.
Talking about Pau's age, didn't our GM just say something about lengthy 7 footers who play well into their mid thirties? Duncan & Dirk were his examples, I don't see why Pau would suddenly drop off either.

I know it's not gonna happen but Pau is definitely the better player, and will continue to be for the next two years at least. I'm hoping Kieff will turn the corner this upcoming season and get 17/8 while shooting better than 48%, but I don't think he'll ever, in his entire career average 18.5/12/2 for one season. Here's hoping I'm wrong and Kieff will become a Aldridge/Sheed lite someday (while playing for the Suns of course).

Age matters. A lot. You can't just disregard that as if it doesn't. It's one of the primary, most important factors to a rebuilding team. You're not arguing a 25 year old v. a 27 or 29 year old. You're arguing for a 35 year old to join a rebuilding squad of kids less than 25 that isn't ready to contend even if you add the 35 year old. That's true insanity.

And LMFAO at Pau shooting 3s with ease. He's a career 27.8% 3 point shooter who takes 0.2 per game. He's done absolutely nothing over his 14 year career to show he shoots any type of 3 well. He may shoot them "with ease" but they certainly aren't going in.

[bigfoot]

You KeifKeepers conveniently ignore his past behavior and have packed all his problems into his brother's bags.

To assume Keif is the good twin and his bad behavior was MarCusser's doing is homery optimism. And to think he does not share some of the same, if not all of the same attitudes towards Phoenix sidesteps their two-for-one-headed history.

Go ahead and defend him, but at least acknowledge the valid chance that HE might not want to play here. There is more circumstantial evidence to lead to that conclusion than what you guys are trumpeting. Yes, circumstantial, but isn't there an argument that these two Bone-Headed Clone-Headed Bros think and act alike ? They could be the basis for a creepy Psych paper.

Do you not think Keif supported every word CusMo said ? He wasn't there fanning the flame was he ? Or was he ? It has already been verified he was angry and in Detroit..... BTW, I'd be in Detroit too over the swelter that is Phnx...

The reckoning comes as camp draws near. Patch up or pack up Keif.

Whether Kieff wants to play here or not is immaterial. We have his rights for 5 years, and no incentive or reason to trade him for anyone who doesn't help our core grow. Dumping him for 35 year olds who aren't MVP candidates is as stupid as the Morris twins' behavior. Our trainers are good but they don't have the fountain of youth. You GoneWithKieffers seem to think 25 year olds can't improve and that anyone who can grab a rebound, no matter how old, is somehow an upgrade.

My incentive is clear ... if he is going to be a cancer this season he needs to be gone before training camp starts. If he is refusing to meet with the front office and coaches to discuss the upcoming season and continue to act all butt-hurt we don't need that crap around the team. He's a good a player but not that good. Team chemistry (player-to-player and player-to-coach) makes a huge difference as we saw in 2013. That's the incentive you seem to forget about. BTW he is only signed for four years not five and he will be 26 before this season. Seriously doubt he is going to be any better than a 17/7 player at PF.

[AtheJ415]

You KeifKeepers conveniently ignore his past behavior and have packed all his problems into his brother's bags.

To assume Keif is the good twin and his bad behavior was MarCusser's doing is homery optimism. And to think he does not share some of the same, if not all of the same attitudes towards Phoenix sidesteps their two-for-one-headed history.

Go ahead and defend him, but at least acknowledge the valid chance that HE might not want to play here. There is more circumstantial evidence to lead to that conclusion than what you guys are trumpeting. Yes, circumstantial, but isn't there an argument that these two Bone-Headed Clone-Headed Bros think and act alike ? They could be the basis for a creepy Psych paper.

Do you not think Keif supported every word CusMo said ? He wasn't there fanning the flame was he ? Or was he ? It has already been verified he was angry and in Detroit..... BTW, I'd be in Detroit too over the swelter that is Phnx...

The reckoning comes as camp draws near. Patch up or pack up Keif.

Whether Kieff wants to play here or not is immaterial. We have his rights for 5 years, and no incentive or reason to trade him for anyone who doesn't help our core grow. Dumping him for 35 year olds who aren't MVP candidates is as stupid as the Morris twins' behavior. Our trainers are good but they don't have the fountain of youth. You GoneWithKieffers seem to think 25 year olds can't improve and that anyone who can grab a rebound, no matter how old, is somehow an upgrade.

My incentive is clear ... if he is going to be a cancer this season he needs to be gone before training camp starts. If he is refusing to meet with the front office and coaches to discuss the upcoming season and continue to act all butt-hurt we don't need that crap around the team. He's a good a player but not that good. Team chemistry (player-to-player and player-to-coach) makes a huge difference as we saw in 2013. That's the incentive you seem to forget about. BTW he is only signed for four years not five and he will be 26 before this season. Seriously doubt he is going to be any better than a 17/7 player at PF.

That's fine. But why trade for a 35 year old who can't help this team win a title? Why not trade him for someone who is within the age range of our core? The only way Gasol helps us win a title is if you believe we can be a contender this season or next. He'd be a rental who does nothing for our long-term prospects and makes us better in the short run hurting our draft pick prospects. He's the absolute opposite of the type of player we should be trying to get via trade. And in fact, if you trade Kieff for him, you can't even argue he has someone to mentor behind him like we have with Chandler for Len.

[bigfoot]

Whether Kieff wants to play here or not is immaterial. We have his rights for 5 years, and no incentive or reason to trade him for anyone who doesn't help our core grow. Dumping him for 35 year olds who aren't MVP candidates is as stupid as the Morris twins' behavior. Our trainers are good but they don't have the fountain of youth. You GoneWithKieffers seem to think 25 year olds can't improve and that anyone who can grab a rebound, no matter how old, is somehow an upgrade.

My incentive is clear ... if he is going to be a cancer this season he needs to be gone before training camp starts. If he is refusing to meet with the front office and coaches to discuss the upcoming season and continue to act all butt-hurt we don't need that crap around the team. He's a good a player but not that good. Team chemistry (player-to-player and player-to-coach) makes a huge difference as we saw in 2013. That's the incentive you seem to forget about. BTW he is only signed for four years not five and he will be 26 before this season. Seriously doubt he is going to be any better than a 17/7 player at PF.

That's fine. But why trade for a 35 year old who can't help this team win a title? Why not trade him for someone who is within the age range of our core? The only way Gasol helps us win a title is if you believe we can be a contender this season or next. He'd be a rental who does nothing for our long-term prospects and makes us better in the short run hurting our draft pick prospects. He's the absolute opposite of the type of player we should be trying to get via trade. And in fact, if you trade Kieff for him, you can't even argue he has someone to mentor behind him like we have with Chandler for Len.

I said I would be fine with a Gasol for Kief trade. It would be a huge upgrade for the Suns and you can't deny that. I would also be fine with a trade of Kief for a different 23-32 year old with similar stats. To be honest I doubt Kief is going to be part of the core after four years. I don't see him resigning with the Suns in 2019. I would say he is probably really pissed that he and his brother took lower value, long term contracts, in order to play together and the Suns crushed that dream.

[Qwigglez]

That's fine. But why trade for a 35 year old who can't help this team win a title? Why not trade him for someone who is within the age range of our core? The only way Gasol helps us win a title is if you believe we can be a contender this season or next. He'd be a rental who does nothing for our long-term prospects and makes us better in the short run hurting our draft pick prospects. He's the absolute opposite of the type of player we should be trying to get via trade. And in fact, if you trade Kieff for him, you can't even argue he has someone to mentor behind him like we have with Chandler for Len.

Actually, think Pau could teach Len offense and Chandler teach Len defense. Imagine Pau/Chandler fused together and create a monster in Len.

[saintEscaton]

That's fine. But why trade for a 35 year old who can't help this team win a title? Why not trade him for someone who is within the age range of our core? The only way Gasol helps us win a title is if you believe we can be a contender this season or next. He'd be a rental who does nothing for our long-term prospects and makes us better in the short run hurting our draft pick prospects. He's the absolute opposite of the type of player we should be trying to get via trade. And in fact, if you trade Kieff for him, you can't even argue he has someone to mentor behind him like we have with Chandler for Len.

Actually, think Pau could teach Len offense and Chandler teach Len defense. Imagine Pau/Chandler fused together and create a monster in Len.

Chandler+Pau= More athletic Marc Gasol (Len's ceiling )