Super Lintendo: The Jeremy Lin Thread

Mystical Apples · Post #841 » by **Mystical Apples** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:57 pm

The teams Lin cites are well-run organizations. Hope he does well and stays,but his logic bodes well for the Hornets.

TinmanZBoy · Post #842 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:10 pm

Bull523 wrote:I think the situation was kept under control in the lakers and rockets realgm board past seasons due to responsible modding here. CF was entirely a differrent scenario since the mod himself is a blatant hater.

How dare you say that to my Clutchie? She is the best mod in the known world, plus her ass is so sweet (people like to lick it)...

ChokeFasncists · Post #843 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:32 am

^

Well, I don't think I need to comment on that.

The Rockets RealGM was terrific, thanks. The Lakers......not so much......they were just more subtle and gradual than CF.

Post #844 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:41 am

If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

jeroka · Post #845 » by **jeroka** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:04 am

yosemiteben wrote:If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

I friend of mine said that Kemba's been struggling his entire career...

jamesrutherford · Post #846 » by **jamesrutherford** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:09 am

Braggins wrote: “I don't think you guys [who are Jeremy Lin fans] understand how atrocious our offensive system here has been and might continue to be.”

You’re right. We Jeremy Lin fans have not seen the Hornets play yet. But we’ll watch every Hornets game this year. And speaking of “atrocious”, we had to put up with Byron Scott’s coaching last year. Could anything in all of life be worse than that?

By the way, most Jeremy Lin fans are cool with Kemba Walker being the starter, but we hope that (i) Jeremy Lin will often be on the floor with Kemba Walker together, and that (ii) Jeremy Lin will get 30 minutes or so of playing time consistently.

Most Jeremy Lin fans are nice. The people who say bad things about Hornets players before the season even starts and claim to be Jeremy Lin fans may well be trolls. Yes, Jeremy Lin gets all sorts of people interested in his teams, including a few for all the wrong reasons.

DY_nasty · Post #847 » by **DY_nasty** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:57 am

jeroka wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

I friend of mine said that Kemba's been struggling his entire career...

Hasn't gone through an entire season without having his spot questioned for one reason or another. And I've been on both sides of the fence arguing too.

RollingWave · Post #848 » by **RollingWave** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:15 am

The Offense looked good for a stretch in the middle of the season when both Al and Lance didn't play, granted that was also the easier part of the schedule.

Lorenzomax7 · Post #849 » by **Lorenzomax7** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:51 am

ChokeFasncists wrote:^

Well, I don't think I need to comment on that.

The Rockets RealGM was terrific, thanks. The Lakers......not so much......they were just more subtle and gradual than CF.

The Rockets RealGM is the only place/forum that I can be treated as a true Rockets fan without being accused of being a Lin fan. CF is the worst no doubt. LakersGround is actually very good.

Lorenzomax7 · Post #850 » by **Lorenzomax7** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:55 am

yosemiteben wrote:If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

Well so please everyone let's lower our expectations and prepare for the worst. BTW, ignore the obvious trolls. :wink:

To be honest, I have never been a fan of Kemba but I wouldn't comment on him during da next season anyway considering some of you might think I got an agenda in my opinion.

13th Man · Post #851 » by **13th Man** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:51 am

jeroka wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

I friend of mine said that Kemba's been struggling his entire career...

Who cares? Are you hoping for him to struggle? I hope not.

Btw, there's already a Lin vs. Kemba thread, why don't you take your trolling arguments there rather than polluting this thread with garbage.

JuanCesta · Post #852 » by **JuanCesta** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:09 pm

First off let me start by saying that I am a Lin fan only and a fan of any team that Lin plays on and that's about it. So let's get that out of the way. I have posted regularly on lakersground and jeremylin.net and CF. I am an outspoken Lin fan and I will state my views outright. Let me outline Lin's clear marginalization.

Les Alexander the owner of the Rockets was extremely POed at Morey during Linsanity. You have to remember what the Rox looked like at the time in the summer of 2013. Their biggest "star" was Kevin Martin and they hadn't been to the playoffs in 5 years. This was before there was even a notion that they could get Harden much less Howard. Les wanted a BIG name to sell tickets and in the Summer of 2013 there weren't many names bigger in FA than Jeremy Lin. The same Jeremy Lin that Morey and Mchale cut 4 weeks before Linsanity happened in MSG.

After the season ended with the Knicks Lin said himself in several interviews that he'd thought he'd play for the Knicks for the next 3-4 years. Lin said he wanted to play in front of the Knicks fans in MSG for the rest of his career. Lin may be a Harvard grad but honestly the guy is not very savy when it comes to NBA power politics. He didn't know Melo was not gonna let Dolan sign him to take the spotlight in MSG. This can be confirmed in the Henry Abott piece written for ESPN.

During the time when Lin was a household name and was setting scoring records and bringing the Knicks back into the playoff picture, Morey and Mchale were being ridiculed during Linsanity and their competency in evaluating talent was being called into question. You have to remember Morey and Mchale cut Lin in favor of Johnny Flynn on Christmas Day. Mchale got visibly peeved several times being asked how he "missed out" on seeing Lin's talent. For what it's worth Johnny Flynn was out of the NBA after that one season.

Les Alexander wanted a name and wanted to mitigate the laughstock joke that his GM and Head Coach cut a guy that four weeks later was setting scoring records, putting 38pts on Kobe in MSG and creating a sporting phenomena that was a bona fide national sensation. Plus the Rox still have a lot of business ties with Chinese Companies from the Yao Ming days. Just look at the Chinese writing on the Rox goal post. Those ties were weakening as Yao had been retired for almost 4 years by this point.

So Les Alexander pretty much forced Morey to get Lin back. Les stated in interviews that he even called Morey and screamed at him after watching Lin hit the famous game winner against Toronto on Valentine's day 2012. Not only screamed at him but hung up on him mid sentence. During the off season Les forced Morey to fly to Vegas where he met Lin and Lin's agents at the Golden Nugget Casino business room. There he literally had to profusely apologize to Lin and under orders from Les tell Lin he was deeply sorry and that the Rox made a mistake and now wanted to make it up to him and get him back in Houston to be the face of the Franchise. Lin talks about this meeting in several interviews saying that Morey kept apologizing "almost too much." In other words to the point of graveling which was ordered by Les. You can believe that the apologizing/ cowtowing was not Morey's idea nor would he forget it when Lin got to Houston and Harden was signed and the ROX no longer needed Lin as "the star."

So Morey structured that backloaded contract that gave Dolan the excuse not to match. Lin only signed the contract because he was absolutely certain NY would match. Lin being Naive really thought till the very last minute he'd be a Knick for life as he said in many interviews afterword and was in his words totally shocked when the Knicks declined to match at the last minute of the deadline. So to his detriment for the next two years Lin headed back to Houston to play for Morey and Mchale.

The Morey structured the contract for 3 years 25 million 5/5/15. This was instead of a normal 8/8.5/8.5 split which the Knicks would have no reason not to match. The balloon 15 million dollar 3rd year was just to keep the Knicks from matching and would be clause used to call Lin "overpaid" and "not worth his contract" by the Houston media and fan base later when Lin was no longer needed. in reality Hou only paid Lin 10 million for two years compared to the 50 million plus they eventually got back in the Asian Market.

Mchale does not like Jeremy Lin's game at all. He never has. It was his player evaluation that mainly contributed to Morey cutting Lin the first time on Christmas Day 4 weeks before Linsanity. Mchale didn't even think Lin was NBA caliber as stated by several sources at the time. The fact that Mchale now had to welcome back the guy he helped Morey cut, and treat him as the face of the franchise and the #1 option was like a slap in the face. Basically Mchale made a player evaluation that said this guy isn't worth the $500,000 lin had on his contract at the time and isn't as good as 4th string Johnny Flynn who was out of the league by that offseason. Linsanity made him look stupid. His own bosses owner Les Alexander and Morey giving Lin 25 million and declaring him the number one option was for all intents and purposes saying Kevin Mchale doesn't know what he's doing. Mchale wasn't about to let that stand but for the moment thats what the owner wanted and there
was nothing Mchale could do about it..at the time.

So Lin was set to be the #1 option and the face of a team without much talent to entertain Hou, sell tickets and bring in the chinese AD dollars, but before he plays a regular season game for the Rox, Morey was able to work the Harden trade. Suddenly Lin becomes expendable. For the first few games Lin and Harden play great together. Their first game against the Hawks Lin scored 20pts and Harden got 35pts. But now the Rox wanted to focus on Harden becoming an Allstar and a scoring title contender. So they design the offense to put the ball in his hands every possession and they Play Harden 40 mpg.

Now the Rox have a real NBA "superstar" to be the face of the franchise. To get the headlines on ESPN and get talked about by Kenny and the crew on NBA tonight.

So Lin starts to get marginalized. In fact Mchale starts benching Lin in favor of Tony Douglas in the 4th Qt for no reason. Still despite all that Lin starts every game. And average 13.8/6 while playing off ball. To tick Morey and Harden off more Lin got more Allstar votes than Harden and Harden had to get in as an alternate.

So Lin helped the team get to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years. Lin hurts his shoulder in the 1st qt of the 2nd game of the playoffs and is out. Pat Beverley steps in and hurts Westbrook tearing WB's ACL suddenly Bev becomes a Houston Hero. Mchale never mentions Beverley a career euro league player without gushing.

In the offseason Howard signs with the Rox. Now Morey has delusions of grandeur and Lin is an afterthought. Mchale decides to bench Lin for Beverley and snatches Lin from games arbitrarly at any time even when Lin is playing very well. And example is a game the Rox played against Lin's old team the Knicks on 1/3/2014. Lin scored 13 first half points on great shooting percentages. Lin makes one arguable turn over in the middle of the third and Mchale benches him for the rest of the game. An example that was a very common trend that year in regards to Mchale benching Lin arbitrarly even when Lin was hot.

Here is a video of that game Lin was on fire and Mchale benches Jeremy at 3:35 left in the 3rd Qt Lin didn't play a single minute the rest of the game despite it being a close game to the wire. While watching Lin shoot free throws listen to the what the HOU Announce team is saying.

http://youtu.be/RrEJ8a6l0fI

The Rox media, writers and Commentators start going in on Lin relentlessly. Every loss is his fault and everytime he's on the court every mistake is magnified. Morey does this to justify the Bev promotion and the Lin benching. The problem is Bev is injury prone. Lin starts 33 games almost 40% of the entire schedule an averages 12.5/6. Lin has some great games including a triple double on Kyrie Iriving and had some big wins in the playoffs against Lillard. Never forget Lillard was scoreless in the 4th of game 6 when Lin was on him, Lin was subbed out and Lillard got that historic three in Parson's face when Bev was suppose to be guarding him but loses him. Still the Rox org, media and most of its fan base blame Lin for series loss.

By this time Lin has served his purpose to Les. The Rox now had two "Superstars" to get them hype. Lin is expendable even to Les Alexander now. The Rox paid Lin 10 million for two years and got a PG who got them to the playoffs twice and solidified their relationships with the Chinese companies. Two years 5 million per year for a PG who averaged 13.8/6 and 12.5/6 while staring every game the first year and almost half the games the second year is a steal in any GM's book.

So Morey can finally get rid of Lin. Morey makes no secret about how much respect he and org have for Lin with the Melo #7 situation.

Thankfully the Lakers need a PG and a pick so they take Lin's last year at 15 million which was always the problem with Lin's contact. If he just got 8/8.5/8.5 25million it would be no issue but people see that 15 million for one year and it freaks them out forgetting he only got 5 million per for the first two years of the contract.

Lin more than earned his 5 million a year for the two years he was in Hou. They got a great deal for that amount of money on the court. And they made 10 times that in Asian endorsements.

So when one ask why Hou gave that "big" contract to Lin if Morey and Mchale were against him from the start. There is your answer.

JuanCesta · Post #853 » by **JuanCesta** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:15 pm

Next, Lin was traded to the Lakers. It all started off the same way with Mitch Kupchak saying he has been after Lin for 3 years and Byron Scott claiming to be a huge J Lin fan.

Once the season started, Lin was who he is. An efficient point guard putting up 50-40-90 percentages while Kobe was putting up under 30%. This got Kobe jealous of Lin and also that Lin was the main guy on the team and the same marginalization started. Kobe along with BScott who is just a Kobe worshipper began the process to eliminate and reduce Lin because he was outshining Kobe and producing well to the point people were questioning if this is Lin's team and he should take the last shot. They benched Lin for a career scrub Ronnie Price who Scott labeled head of the snake while Kobe went on to call Lin a coward, a p***y as well as other heinous names. The marginalization did not stop there. Lakers commentators Stu Lantz got in as well exaggerating every Lin turnover and missed shot while giving no credit to his play. Meanwhile the agenda was on full pace to do whatever it takes to get Kobe to beat MJ in scoring.

Things got worse from there. Once Price got injured, inferior rookie Clarkson was promoted to start ahead of the superior Lin. SO now was Lin not only backing up Price but also Clarkson. he would get 1 minute at the end fo each quarter and when he was hot, Scott used to yank him out.

I can go on and on but I am finally happy that Lin has chosen Hornets and Bobcats seem receptive of him.

SOrry for the two long stories but it had to be put out there.

MeowsALot · Post #854 » by **MeowsALot** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:22 pm

JuanCesta wrote:Next, Lin was traded to the Lakers. It all started off the same way with Mitch Kupchak saying he has been after Lin for 3 years and Byron Scott claiming to be a huge J Lin fan.

Once the season started, Lin was who he is. An efficient point guard putting up 50-40-90 percentages while Kobe was putting up under 30%. This got Kobe jealous of Lin and also that Lin was the main guy on the team and the same marginalization started. Kobe along with BScott who is just a Kobe worshipper began the process to eliminate and reduce Lin because he was outshining Kobe and producing well to the point people were questioning if this is Lin's team and he should take the last shot. They benched Lin for a career scrub Ronnie Price who Scott labeled head of the snake while Kobe went on to call Lin a coward, a p***y as well as other heinous names. The marginalization did not stop there. Lakers commentators Stu Lantz got in as well exaggerating every Lin turnover and missed shot while giving no credit to his play. Meanwhile the agenda was on full pace to do whatever it takes to get Kobe to beat MJ in scoring.

Things got worse from there. Once Price got injured, inferior rookie Clarkson was promoted to start ahead of the superior Lin. SO now was Lin not only backing up Price but also Clarkson. he would get 1 minute at the end fo each quarter and when he was hot, Scott used to yank him out.

I can go on and on but I am finally happy that Lin has chosen Hornets and Bobcats seem receptive of him.

SOrry for the two long stories but it had to be put out there.

lol that's your point of view though. sure things happened, but we will never know the real reason behind everything since we don't know - it's all just speculation. Not saying you are wrong, but also not saying you are right either. Just pointing it out that's all.

jeroka · Post #855 » by **jeroka** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:47 pm

13th Man wrote:
jeroka wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

I friend of mine said that Kemba's been struggling his entire career...

Who cares? Are you hoping for him to struggle? I hope not.

Btw, there's already a Lin vs. Kemba thread, why don't you take your trolling arguments there rather than polluting this thread with garbage.

hey! why so mad? I didn't mean to hit a nerve... all I'm saying is that a friend of mine said that Kemba's been struggling his entire career. I never brought out Lin, or worse bring up a Lin vs Kemba debate... you're being defensive for the wrong reasons, and for something purely you alone can imagine. I don't mean to pit one against the other.

so I told my friend, he was crazy and I said that Kemba was an awesome player, I remember him @UConn... and he said man, Kemba's been shooting like 36%, 42% and 39% (this was last year)... I said, wtf that's just rough man, I couldn't really believe... so I said, really? so I started watching the Hornets play, and I realized that yeah, my friend had a point...

coming out of Uconn, I expected Kemba to be a smaller JKidd... you know, Kidd is a career 40% shooter, like Kemba who's a career sub 40% shooter... but Kidd was a wiz with the ball, always had 8-10 apg every season during his prime... if only Kemba could actually have higher assist numbers, I think he can be very special.

now, I don't mean to antagonize you, just trying to make an intelligent basketball conversation.

Roy Tarpley · Post #856 » by **Roy Tarpley** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:26 pm

Haha, your Lin-dom is out of control, and that's coming from a Lin fan!

I think your assessment starts off well but then it gets more one-sided and less fact-based towards your analysis of the second year in Houston and one year in Los Angeles.

During Lin's second year in Houston, McHale started Beverley over Lin because (1) Harden was ball-dominant and having two ball-dominant guards co-exist was too difficult, and (2) Harden was a defensive matador and needed Beverley's defensive skills to balance out the backcourt. So there were some reasonable motivations for bringing Lin off the bench -- and Lin did pretty well as the sixth man.

During the Lakers period, I wouldn't categorize Lin's time there as being undermined due to Kobe's "jealousy". That sounds ridiculous. I think the primary reasons would be Byron Scott's rigid system and over-deference to Kobe, as well as Kobe's ballhogging.

- Byron ran a pseudo-Princeton offense that minimized 3PTs, pick and rolls, and movement that are more suited to Lin's game. Instead, Lin had to dump it off to Boozer and Hill for 15ft jumpers, instead of getting picks from Ed Davis.

- Kobe thought Lin was too passive even though that first month in November, Lin averaged 48%fg, 37% on threes, and 85% on fts. Instead, Kobe would jack up 25-30 shots per game while shooting 37% fg. Not only was this bad from an efficiency standpoint, but it also got the rest of the team in the habit of just watching Kobe instead of moving around. I remember a lot of situations where Kobe was triple and even quadruple teamed and he'd still chuck up a shot instead of passing to open teammates. Still, this is Kobe being inefficient, but I wouldn't categorize this as Kobe being jealous.

- Similarly, Kobe was coming off of a big injury, and Byron said he'd monitor Kobe's minutes, but ended up playing Kobe 36+ mpg, and people ridiculed Byron's inability to corral Kobe.

- When the Lakers decided to tank after Kobe got injured again, it made no sense to play Lin more. Also, Clarkson, despite being a rookie, did very well.

All this is to say that Lin's poor experience on the Lakers was more due to Byron's incompetency, Kobe's ball dominance, and the Lakers tanking, rather than any unsubstantiated jealousy that Kobe had

jeroka · Post #857 » by **jeroka** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:40 pm

Kobe being "jealous" of Lin is insane... lol that is not true at all.
Kobe is a 5-time champion, a superstar in the NBA, why would he be jealous of Lin? in fact, Kobe wanted Lin to be more assertive, and just play without second-guessing his game... Kobe did tel Lin to play harder

what really limited Lin was Byron Scott's system, which is a throwback to old school mentality... Byron loves to grind out every play, refusing to shoot early on the shot clock, which was really stupid especially when there were gaps on the defense w/c the offense can attack early on. anyways, Byron Scott hates the pick and roll, w/c was insane because I remember him running tons of pick and rolls with the old Hornets team. I guess, he just wants to disassociate himself with anything connected to Mike D'antoni... somebody he dissed a lot during his time as an NBA analyst for the Lakers.

Byron really does not believe in the new wave being played today w/c relies heavily on the pick and roll, and shooting tons of 3s...
as a mater of fact, Byron does not use modern analytics to influence his style...
get this... rumors circulate that Byron is so stuck in the past that he watches game "tapes" on his black and white CRT tube monitor, to scout games. lol

razsan · Post #858 » by **razsan** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:05 pm

One thing I hope the Hornets embrace is that Lin LOVES to get the ball moving. There were a number of times he'd start the break and then put ON the brakes because of Scott's offensive philosophy. Lakers weren't as devoid of talent as the media would have you believe, but when Kobe went down, Scott began his head-scratching rotations.

Braggins · Post #859 » by **Braggins** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:22 pm

What should we expect if Kemba and Lin both play well? I'm guessing the majority will be happy but are there going to be a couple people clamoring for Lin to start if he averages like half an assist more per/36minutes or something silly like that?

razsan · Post #860 » by **razsan** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:14 pm

Braggins wrote:What should we expect if Kemba and Lin both play well? I'm guessing the majority will be happy but are there going to be a couple people clamoring for Lin to start if he averages like half an assist more per/36minutes or something silly like that?

I don't think so. If both are truly doing that well and Lin is still getting minutes, I'm not sure many would be upset. The problem Jeremy had is that he was benched for what many of his fans believed to be inferior players. He comes in as the backup to Kemba, who is a relatively similar player quality wise. With any luck Lin will push him a few notches and everyone will be happy!