The Official Should We Have Signed Thad Thread

[Hello Brooklyn]

Yeah.

I'd rather amass talent while maintaining some wiggle room capwise, build a stable environment where guys would actually want to play and win games instead of tanking and being bad just to take blind shots in the dark. The draft should be used to supplement the talent base, not be the central building block

Can you think of an NBA champion in the last 10 years who didnt draft a superstar first. I can't.

That alone is enough to prove to you that your strategy isn't gonna work.

The Dallas Mavericks.

The Sacramento Kings have been in the lottery every season since 2007. What do they have to show for it outside of DMC who probably wants to get the **** out of there?

What planet do you live on?

The Dallas Mavericks essentially drafted Dirk Nowitzki because they traded for him on draft day. That counts as building through the draft. And then they developed him and he became a superstar.

And just because it doesn't aways work, doesn't mean it doesn't work. You can provide examples of teams failing by trying to build through the draft. But you can't provide one example of a team winning a championship and NOT building through the draft.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Its not a lazy cop out. Its the reality of what happened. We put all our eggs in one basket thinking a big time FA was gonna come here in 2010. And nobody wanted to. So we ended up with a heaping pile of trash.

only its not what we ended up with, since we still had our cap space

Getting Deron Williams and Joe Johnson proved to be a colossal failure, so I don't see the point youre trying to make. Building through free agency rather than the draft isn't gonna work. It doesn't put us in a good position moving forward.

no a colossal failure would have been adding those guys and being terrible and missing the playoffs the kickoff year in brooklyn

Making the playoffs for 3 straight years is not even good. Whats the point if youre not gonna be a serious contender? And the only year we even made it out of the first round was in 2014.

of course its good. and we were 1 dwight brainfart away from being a legit contender.

it wasnt the ideal situation, but it was some monumental failure either. and it snaive to think if we built through the draft we would have had some contending team. we dont know that.

building through the draft is near impossible. too high a level of failure and too much luck involved

Ok we still have our cap space. But having a lot of cap space didn't do anything to make us better in summer of 2010 like we wanted to. We didn't get any free agents.

Who cares if we make the playoffs and suck? Do you really think weve become that popular in Brooklyn, cause we haven't. Last year we had the worst TV rating in the ENTIRE NBA. If we would have built through the draft and had a young exciting team, then we would have a much better chance of becoming relevent.

We were not gonna be a legit contender with Dwight. Are you serious? We would be a 2nd round team at best. And stop living in hypotheticals. We didn't get Dwight, so it doesn't matter how close we were. Still a complete failure.

Maybe we wouldn't have a contending team. But at least we would have had a chance. What if we ended up getting Irving or Davis or Wiggins. We would have a much better chance than we do right now.

Building through the draft is not impossible. Almost every single contending team in the NBA has done it.

[Zachbretton]

Its not a lazy cop out. Its the reality of what happened. We put all our eggs in one basket thinking a big time FA was gonna come here in 2010. And nobody wanted to. So we ended up with a heaping pile of trash.

only its not what we ended up with, since we still had our cap space

Getting Deron Williams and Joe Johnson proved to be a colossal failure, so I don't see the point youre trying to make. Building through free agency rather than the draft isn't gonna work. It doesn't put us in a good position moving forward.

no a colossal failure would have been adding those guys and being terrible and missing the playoffs the kickoff year in brooklyn

Making the playoffs for 3 straight years is not even good. Whats the point if youre not gonna be a serious contender? And the only year we even made it out of the first round was in 2014.

of course its good. and we were 1 dwight brainfart away from being a legit contender.

it wasnt the ideal situation, but it was some monumental failure either. and it snaive to think if we built through the draft we would have had some contending team. we dont know that.

building through the draft is near impossible. too high a level of failure and too much luck involved

Ok we still have our cap space. But having a lot of cap space didn't do anything to make us better in summer of 2010 like we wanted to. We didn't get any free agents.

Who cares if we make the playoffs and suck? Do you really think weve become that popular in Brooklyn, cause we haven't. Last year we had the worst TV rating in the ENTIRE NBA. If we would have built through the draft and had a young exciting team, then we would have a much better chance of becoming relevent.

We were not gonna be a legit contender with Dwight. Are you serious? We would be a 2nd round team at best. And stop living in hypotheticals. We didn't get Dwight, so it doesn't matter how close we were. Still a complete failure.

Maybe we wouldn't have a contending team. But at least we would have had a chance. What if we ended up getting Irving or Davis or Wiggins. We would have a much better chance than we do right now.

Building through the draft is not impossible. Almost every single contending team in the NBA has done it.

Ok then, give me your perfect plan for the future. Are you having a 4 year plan? A 3 year plan? What is it? How are we getting our draft picks back? Whose are we trading for? Who do we give up for them. The best player we have to trade is Brook, our drafted star, so I doubt it makes sense to trade him away.

What happens if we got 3 years, and don't draft anyone who can impact the game as much as you want? Do we keep looking the the draft and avoid signing players? When do you sop "building through the draft?"

Yes drafting right is important, but so are trades and FA... They all make a team great, all in different ways. We are in a position of almost no draft picks until 2019... So unless we want to start selling low and seeing who w can ship out for other team's draft picks (and I'm not sure who those players are other than Brook, which would be counter to building through the draft).

We're just talking about being reasonable with our future. Unless we want to undo everything we have in Brooklyn and begin again, we have to build through FA and Trades until we have our own picks. So yeah we go for bust until we have our own pick. If it all goes and falls apart that way than we do exactly that and clean house for as many picks back (probably won't be much)... And rethink about building through the draft. Until that time, it makes no sense to not go for broke


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[Net Sentence]

Ok then, give me your perfect plan for the future. Are you having a 4 year plan? A 3 year plan? What is it? How are we getting our draft picks back? Whose are we trading for? Who do we give up for them. The best player we have to trade is Brook, our drafted star, so I doubt it makes sense to trade him away.

What happens if we got 3 years, and don't draft anyone who can impact the game as much as you want? Do we keep looking the the draft and avoid signing players? When do you sop "building through the draft?"

Yes drafting right is important, but so are trades and FA... They all make a team great, all in different ways. We are in a position of almost no draft picks until 2019... So unless we want to start selling low and seeing who w can ship out for other team's draft picks (and I'm not sure who those players are other than Brook, which would be counter to building through the draft).

We're just talking about being reasonable with our future. Unless we want to undo everything we have in Brooklyn and begin again, we have to build through FA and Trades until we have our own picks. So yeah we go for bust until we have our own pick. If it all goes and falls apart that way than we do exactly that and clean house for as many picks back (probably won't be much)... And rethink about building through the draft. Until that time, it makes no sense to not go for broke


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This is such a whinny post and there is nothing reasonable about it.

Why are we avoiding signing players going forward? We are going to have 39 mil in cap space.

People have been complaining for years about the Wallace and Johnson trade. It's time to stop. Thomas Robinson is the guy the Nets were drafting in 2012, not Lilliard. Larkin is the guy who was drafted with the 1st we sent Atlanta in 2013 and RHJ was worth taking at #15 this year. We get T-Rob and Larkin on cheaper contracts then they got in the draft and further along in their development. T-Rob just started playing well towards the end of last season and Larkin has dealt with injuries in his first year and the triangle offense in his second. I wouldnt be surprised if he breaks out this year playing in a system that features his strength.

I also wouldnt be surprised if these guys bust but that's the fickle nature of building through the draft. Just because you have draft picks doesnt mean they are going to pan out. Billy King has a good track record in the draft, especially drafting late. Kyle Korver at 51, Lou WIlliams at 45, John Salmons at 26, Sam Dalembert at 26 all were King picks while he was in Philly. His Nets track record has also been strong. Plumlee was vital to the 13-14 season when Lopez went down and was able to get us a first rounder this season. Plumlee was the 22 pick. Markel Brown started 29 games and helped another Nets playoff run last year. He was the 44th pick. King stashed Bogdanovic in 2011 and we had to wait 3 years but he looks like he could be our starting SG for the next 10 years. Bogs was the 31st pick. We havent seen RHJ play yet but I think he is going to far outproduce his draft position, 23rd. We have McCullough, Karasev and Vaulet to make up for the loss of future draft picks.

So if your idea of reasonable is the Nets avoiding free agents despite having cap space, not being able to make trades despite having multiple your assets and busting on all of our draft picks then by all means keep whining. My idea of reasonable is that DWill was an exception and Lopez's injuries were unfortunate. If Lopez was healthy the last 4 seasons the story would be a lot different. If we actually got what we paid for out of DWill then we would have had more success. Unfortunately injuries are part of sports and what happened with DWill is rarely seen. I dont see how we are going to be limited going forward with the cap space we have next season and the good young assets we have for trades.

[MrDollarBills]

Can you think of an NBA champion in the last 10 years who didnt draft a superstar first. I can't.

That alone is enough to prove to you that your strategy isn't gonna work.

The Dallas Mavericks.

The Sacramento Kings have been in the lottery every season since 2007. What do they have to show for it outside of DMC who probably wants to get the **** out of there?

What planet do you live on?

The Dallas Mavericks essentially drafted Dirk Nowitzki because they traded for him on draft day. That counts as building through the draft. And then they developed him and he became a superstar.

And just because it doesn't aways work, doesn't mean it doesn't work. You can provide examples of teams failing by trying to build through the draft. But you can't provide one example of a team winning a championship and NOT building through the draft.

Fine then. But Dirk is a once in a lifetime talent. It was pure LUCK that things worked out for Dallas the way they did including a)the trade for Dirk and b)Dirk developing into a HOF Do you know how many losing seasons and lottery appearances it took for Dallas to get that once in a lifetime player?

TEN **** ING YEARS.

And none of the players in between that time and Dirk's drafting were Dallas draftees by the time they finally won a title aside from a past his prime Jason Kidd who left and came back. Add the fact that it was pure luck that Robert Traylor, god rest his soul, was more valued than a skinny German who was laughed at during his rookie season because he sucked balls!! Dirk could have gone to the wayside like a lot of euros at that time but to Dallas' LUCK, they found a guy that wanted to be great. That doesn't come on the draft board each and every year. You just brush aside me pointing out how the Kings haven't yielded anything in nearly ten years worth of lottery picks other than a malcontent B Tier center who is hauling ass the moment he's eligible. Purposely tanking is a fool's gambit, you want to purposely tank with this front office at the helm? Are you NUTS?

It took Dallas TEN years to get just one guy that opened a championship window. You want another good example? Look at the Clippers history prior to Blake Griffin's first year. That's the kind of path you want to take? Taking shots in the dark for a decade or better til the Nets land a generational talent?

I would bet the HOUSE that you don't have that kind of patience. And you're telling me what kind of planet do I live on? I live on a planet where history dictates purposeful tanking yields very little gains unless you get extremely lucky or you have stud front office folks like The Spurs and The Thunder, who managed to come away with A and B tier players during their building. And even then...a lot of that comes with LUCK.

The Spurs landed a late first rounder and a 2nd rounder and they ended up developing into Hall of Famers(oh yeah, btw they didn't tank outside of one season, the one where Robinson snapped his leg).

The Thunder managed to draft THREE A tier STUDS in three straight drafts. The odds of that happening again for any team is extremely low, especially for the frickin NETS.

I'm good. I'd rather have team compile a talent base, make sensible signings/trades and build an atmosphere of competitive play in a big time market that would actually draw FAs instead of spending a decade throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks.

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Dallas Mavericks.

The Sacramento Kings have been in the lottery every season since 2007. What do they have to show for it outside of DMC who probably wants to get the **** out of there?

What planet do you live on?

The Dallas Mavericks essentially drafted Dirk Nowitzki because they traded for him on draft day. That counts as building through the draft. And then they developed him and he became a superstar.

And just because it doesn't aways work, doesn't mean it doesn't work. You can provide examples of teams failing by trying to build through the draft. But you can't provide one example of a team winning a championship and NOT building through the draft.

Fine then. But Dirk is a once in a lifetime talent. It was pure LUCK that things worked out for Dallas the way they did including a)the trade for Dirk and b)Dirk developing into a HOF Do you know how many losing seasons and lottery appearances it took for Dallas to get that once in a lifetime player?

TEN **** ING YEARS.

And none of the players in between that time and Dirk's drafting were Dallas draftees by the time they finally won a title aside from a past his prime Jason Kidd who left and came back. Add the fact that it was pure luck that Robert Traylor, god rest his soul, was more valued than a skinny German who was laughed at during his rookie season because he sucked balls!! Dirk could have gone to the wayside like a lot of euros at that time but to Dallas' LUCK, they found a guy that wanted to be great. That doesn't come on the draft board each and every year. You just brush aside me pointing out how the Kings haven't yielded anything in nearly ten years worth of lottery picks other than a malcontent B Tier center who is hauling ass the moment he's eligible. Purposely tanking is a fool's gambit, you want to purposely tank with this front office at the helm? Are you NUTS?

It took Dallas TEN years to get just one guy that opened a championship window. You want another good example? Look at the Clippers history prior to Blake Griffin's first year. That's the kind of path you want to take? Taking shots in the dark for a decade or better til the Nets land a generational talent?

I would bet the HOUSE that you don't have that kind of patience. And you're telling me what kind of planet do I live on? I live on a planet where history dictates purposeful tanking yields very little gains unless you get extremely lucky or you have stud front office folks like The Spurs and The Thunder, who managed to come away with A and B tier players during their building. And even then...a lot of that comes with LUCK.

The Spurs landed a late first rounder and a 2nd rounder and they ended up developing into Hall of Famers(oh yeah, btw they didn't tank outside of one season, the one where Robinson snapped his leg).

The Thunder managed to draft THREE A tier STUDS in three straight drafts. The odds of that happening again for any team is extremely low, especially for the frickin NETS.

I'm good. I'd rather have team compile a talent base, make sensible signings/trades and build an atmosphere of competitive play in a big time market that would actually draw FAs instead of spending a decade throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks.

The point is you can't find an example of a team in recent history winning a championship that didn't draft a superstar first. I never said that a team has to be built entirely through the draft, just that the foundation does. And that usually consists of one or two really good players that the team builds off of. Obviously once you have that foundation you can make trades and add in free agents to make the team better.

I'm not brushing aside how the Kings have been a failure. Ok sure they have. But as I said just because the Kings were unable to build through the draft, doesn't mean other teams can't. And as I proved earlier all championship level teams have done so.

I don't think Dallas was taking shots in the dark either. I think they were slowly building a team that got better and better over time. All it really takes is one really good player to become relevant. And yes in my eyes, that is what we have to do. Draft a superstar type player who we can build around for the next decade.

Maybe we don't end up like the Spurs or Thunder either. But my formula for building around player you draft is the rule not the exception. And your idea of building around a "competitive" team is never going to win us a championships plan and simple. I think history has proven that time and time again.

[Hello Brooklyn]

only its not what we ended up with, since we still had our cap space


no a colossal failure would have been adding those guys and being terrible and missing the playoffs the kickoff year in brooklyn



of course its good. and we were 1 dwight brainfart away from being a legit contender.

it wasnt the ideal situation, but it was some monumental failure either. and it snaive to think if we built through the draft we would have had some contending team. we dont know that.

building through the draft is near impossible. too high a level of failure and too much luck involved

Ok we still have our cap space. But having a lot of cap space didn't do anything to make us better in summer of 2010 like we wanted to. We didn't get any free agents.

Who cares if we make the playoffs and suck? Do you really think weve become that popular in Brooklyn, cause we haven't. Last year we had the worst TV rating in the ENTIRE NBA. If we would have built through the draft and had a young exciting team, then we would have a much better chance of becoming relevent.

We were not gonna be a legit contender with Dwight. Are you serious? We would be a 2nd round team at best. And stop living in hypotheticals. We didn't get Dwight, so it doesn't matter how close we were. Still a complete failure.

Maybe we wouldn't have a contending team. But at least we would have had a chance. What if we ended up getting Irving or Davis or Wiggins. We would have a much better chance than we do right now.

Building through the draft is not impossible. Almost every single contending team in the NBA has done it.

Ok then, give me your perfect plan for the future. Are you having a 4 year plan? A 3 year plan? What is it? How are we getting our draft picks back? Whose are we trading for? Who do we give up for them. The best player we have to trade is Brook, our drafted star, so I doubt it makes sense to trade him away.

What happens if we got 3 years, and don't draft anyone who can impact the game as much as you want? Do we keep looking the the draft and avoid signing players? When do you sop "building through the draft?"

Yes drafting right is important, but so are trades and FA... They all make a team great, all in different ways. We are in a position of almost no draft picks until 2019... So unless we want to start selling low and seeing who w can ship out for other team's draft picks (and I'm not sure who those players are other than Brook, which would be counter to building through the draft).

We're just talking about being reasonable with our future. Unless we want to undo everything we have in Brooklyn and begin again, we have to build through FA and Trades until we have our own picks. So yeah we go for bust until we have our own pick. If it all goes and falls apart that way than we do exactly that and clean house for as many picks back (probably won't be much)... And rethink about building through the draft. Until that time, it makes no sense to not go for broke


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I don't think you read what I said originally.

My perfect plan, is to stay on course for what were doing until 2019. Then when 2019 hits, abandon ship. Ditch Brook, Thad and other large contracts we have and essentially start over. Start building through the draft over the next 5-7 years and see where that gets us.

Nobody is saying trades and FA aren't important. All I'm saying is the foundation of all championship teams are built through the draft.

[Paradise]

I don't think you read what I said originally.

My perfect plan, is to stay on course for what were doing until 2019. Then when 2019 hits, abandon ship. Ditch Brook, Thad and other large contracts we have and essentially start over. Start building through the draft over the next 5-7 years and see where that gets us.

Nobody is saying trades and FA aren't important. All I'm saying is the foundation of all championship teams are built through the draft.

Five to seven years? You're basically advocating for the Sixer's strategy. Tanking multiple seasons away to hopelessly find this franchise changer is not a sound idea. Milwaukee, Orlando, Utah, Minnesota have rebuilt their organizations within three years. Either you draft a superstar or you draft a collection of talent and that collection of talent can entice free agents.

[MrDollarBills]

Draft a superstar type player who we can build around for the next decade.

I love how this sounds so simple.

Let's go back to 1990, and compile a list of what the Nets have yielded when our franchise has had a top 10 lotto pick

1990: Derrick Coleman
1991: Kenny Anderson
1995: Ed O'Bannon
1996: Kerry Kittles
1997: Tim Thomas (traded for KVH)
2000: Kenyon Martin
2001: Eddie Griffin(traded for Richard Jefferson and Jason Collins)
2008: Brook Lopez
2010: Derrick Favors

How many franchise changing superstars do you see on that list?

This is why I'm dismissive of your plan.

I'll take what Atlanta or Memphis is doing any day of the week over trolling through the lottery for 10 years trying to strike gold.

[Zachbretton]

Also, I know he's had a rocky beginning to his career... But Brook as of now is our superstar to build around. The FO has finally noticed that and is giving him the reins. This next season is where he must prove himself and I don't see why he won't... At the end of last season we needed Brook to step up and he did exactly that.

Brook is still young and so far has proven he's healthy. We've drafted one of the better athletes and defenders in this most recent draft. I see is making exactly the kinds of moves we need to be making right now. But comes 2016-17 FA were gunna have money to spend and were gunna spend it to surround Brook with talent to win. By then our draft picks in Bojan and RHJ will be set into a role and can be legit starters.

I don't see how you think we're in some sort of tailspin, we're making all the steps needed of us right now to right the ship and set ourselves up for a solid future. Yes it sucks not to have our own draft picks, but we'll survive.

We're also doing what we can to mitigate not having picks by taking fliers on lottery level talent that haven't worked out. If one of Bargs, TRob, Larkin, Ellington work out and actually find a hole here it was all worth it. TRob could pan out to be a solid backup for us behind Brook and play some time at the 4.

All in all, it's not like we're some dumpster fire that were being painted out to be. We took a swing at the fences for KG and Pierce and now we're doing what can be done to right the ship




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[Net Sentence]

Also, I know he's had a rocky beginning to his career... But Brook as of now is our superstar to build around. The FO has finally noticed that and is giving him the reins. This next season is where he must prove himself and I don't see why he won't... At the end of last season we needed Brook to step up and he did exactly that.

Brook is still young and so far has proven he's healthy. We've drafted one of the better athletes and defenders in this most recent draft. I see is making exactly the kinds of moves we need to be making right now. But comes 2016-17 FA were gunna have money to spend and were gunna spend it to surround Brook with talent to win. By then our draft picks in Bojan and RHJ will be set into a role and can be legit starters.

I don't see how you think we're in some sort of tailspin, we're making all the steps needed of us right now to right the ship and set ourselves up for a solid future. Yes it sucks not to have our own draft picks, but we'll survive.

We're also doing what we can to mitigate not having picks by taking fliers on lottery level talent that haven't worked out. If one of Bargs, TRob, Larkin, Ellington work out and actually find a hole here it was all worth it. TRob could pan out to be a solid backup for us behind Brook and play some time at the 4.

All in all, it's not like we're some dumpster fire that were being painted out to be. We took a swing at the fences for KG and Pierce and now we're doing what can be done to right the ship




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This is the thing with the Nets. Whenever people talk about the Nets they skip over the impact Brook can make. He is the franchise, for better or worst, going forward. There is no reason why he shouldnt be a top 5-10 player. He is the only true 7 footer who can score from just about every level and on anyone.

The front office has finally realized that it is best to surround Lopez with rangy athletic forwards instead of selling out for rebounds. Thad gets beat up on here for some reason. Everything he does well is luck and unsustainable while everything he does poorly is who he is and he cant improve. Here is the truth about Thad, when he gets to play his way (one on one in space) he is going to eat most PFs alive. He has a herky jerky slashing game on offense that consists of a extremely quick first step, good ball handling for a 4, very good footwork(his eurostep is a thing of beauty) and creativity to get space inside, and good touch on his array of floaters, hooks and up and unders. His offensive game is predicated on beating his guy to a spot in the paint where he can then go into his bag of tricks. His shot is good enough to force defenders to close out on him and playing with Lopez pretty much forces his guy to get caught in no mans land. Does he help double Lopez or does he stay home with Thad and let Lopez eat. You have to double Lopez when he gets the ball in good position and that person is usually going to be the guy guarding Thad. It takes skill to play well off a big man and Thad does it better then anyone I have ever seen when playing with Lopez. The fact that he is lefty helps out with this because he isnt trying to get to the same spots Lopez is to get his shot. I dont think it is a coincidence that we have been stockpiling lefties (Thad, RHJ, Karasev), I think it helps when playing off of Lopez.

Defensively Thad's game is much like his offensive game, he want to play out in space. When Thad plays out on the wing he is a very good defender IMO. He has good lateral quickness to stay in front of most PF and a good amount of SFs and SGs. This is how most teams attack the Nets during Lopez's tenure. They try to create mismatches on the perimeter to either create space in the lane by drawing Lopez away or they hockey assist to wide open 3pt shooter. We simply lacked the defensive range to cover both plays and teams were able to scheme open shots. It's no coincidence that the defense improved dramatically when we inserted Thad at PF and Markel at SG. I only see that getting better now that we have RHJ who does everything Markel does but better and with more size. Thad should also continue to improve as he grows more accustomed to the roster. He is usually among the top players in the NBA at forcing turnovers and I think that will be a strength of our team this season. Most of the time he looked bad on defense with us last year was because of a lack of communication/ understanding of where his help was coming from.

Thad will struggle defensively if his guy forces him to play in the post. He is giving up size on most nights and he can be overpowered by a good post up PF. This is a good thing though because it plays to Lopez's strength of playing defense at the rim. Being a Net fan we all know that post up plays tend to lend themselves to poor player movement off the ball. Most of the times players just stand around and watch. This gives Lopez opportunities to use his length to affect shots. There were usually 2 reasons why we struggled on these plays at the end of last season and both were addressed this offseason. The first problem was giving up offensive rebound putbacks. If Lopez came over to block a shot no one came in to box his guy out. RHJ is an exceptional rebounder and has high BBIQ so he should sure up those 2nd chance opportunities. The 2nd problem was if a team had a stretch 5 who could bring Lopez away from the play. We got killed by guys like Olynyk and Antic because they occupied Lopez and allowed their PFs to bully Thad. This can now be addressed by putting in a big like Willie Reed or Thomas Robinson to take away PFs posting us up. We simple didnt have anything at PF after Thad.

I apologize for the long post but resigning Thad has more to do with the positive effects he has on Lopez more then who he is as a player. Robert Horry made a living playing off of bigs like Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan much in the same fashion Thad plays off of Lopez. Thad and Lopez clearly have a synergy when playing with each other and if Thad allows Lopez to be the best he can be then Thad is worth every penny he got. We arent going to make the playoffs or be a contender without Lopez being the best player on the floor most nights.

[jbeachboy]

this is first year brook lopez scored and rebounded like a real man. liked to see more improvement on the defense and passing

[Hello Brooklyn]

I don't think you read what I said originally.

My perfect plan, is to stay on course for what were doing until 2019. Then when 2019 hits, abandon ship. Ditch Brook, Thad and other large contracts we have and essentially start over. Start building through the draft over the next 5-7 years and see where that gets us.

Nobody is saying trades and FA aren't important. All I'm saying is the foundation of all championship teams are built through the draft.

Five to seven years? You're basically advocating for the Sixer's strategy. Tanking multiple seasons away to hopelessly find this franchise changer is not a sound idea. Milwaukee, Orlando, Utah, Minnesota have rebuilt their organizations within three years. Either you draft a superstar or you draft a collection of talent and that collection of talent can entice free agents.

No I'm not. But if we were able to draft a superstar it would take that long to find him and for him to become a top flight NBA player. Why is it that every strategy which amounts to rebuilding has to emulate the Sixers?

It doesn't. And I didn't say rebuild. I said competing for a championship in 5-7 years.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Draft a superstar type player who we can build around for the next decade.

I love how this sounds so simple.

Let's go back to 1990, and compile a list of what the Nets have yielded when our franchise has had a top 10 lotto pick

1990: Derrick Coleman
1991: Kenny Anderson
1995: Ed O'Bannon
1996: Kerry Kittles
1997: Tim Thomas (traded for KVH)
2000: Kenyon Martin
2001: Eddie Griffin(traded for Richard Jefferson and Jason Collins)
2008: Brook Lopez
2010: Derrick Favors

How many franchise changing superstars do you see on that list?

This is why I'm dismissive of your plan.

I'll take what Atlanta or Memphis is doing any day of the week over trolling through the lottery for 10 years trying to strike gold.

Nobody is saying its easy. All I'm saying is that its the only way that works. You can be skeptical of your approach because it hasn't worked in the past.

But I'm more skeptical of yours because yours hasn't worked for any team including the Nets in recent history. Every top NBA champion that I can ever think of started out by drafting a superstar.

In fact the only exception I can think of is the 04 Pistons. And thats because they didn't even have a superstar.

You want to be Memphis or Atlanta. I want to be Golden State or San Antonio. And if it takes 10 years of sucking and failed lottery picks to get there so be it.

All I want to see is the Nets win an NBA championship.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Also, I know he's had a rocky beginning to his career... But Brook as of now is our superstar to build around. The FO has finally noticed that and is giving him the reins. This next season is where he must prove himself and I don't see why he won't... At the end of last season we needed Brook to step up and he did exactly that.

Brook is still young and so far has proven he's healthy. We've drafted one of the better athletes and defenders in this most recent draft. I see is making exactly the kinds of moves we need to be making right now. But comes 2016-17 FA were gunna have money to spend and were gunna spend it to surround Brook with talent to win. By then our draft picks in Bojan and RHJ will be set into a role and can be legit starters.

I don't see how you think we're in some sort of tailspin, we're making all the steps needed of us right now to right the ship and set ourselves up for a solid future. Yes it sucks not to have our own draft picks, but we'll survive.

We're also doing what we can to mitigate not having picks by taking fliers on lottery level talent that haven't worked out. If one of Bargs, TRob, Larkin, Ellington work out and actually find a hole here it was all worth it. TRob could pan out to be a solid backup for us behind Brook and play some time at the 4.

All in all, it's not like we're some dumpster fire that were being painted out to be. We took a swing at the fences for KG and Pierce and now we're doing what can be done to right the ship




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Brook Lopez is not a superstar player. Thats an absolute joke. I'm a huge fan of him I even own a Lopez jersey. And Ive defended him on this board time and time again. But no hes not even close to being a superstar. Probably not even a top 20 NBA player.

Lopez will never in his life lead his team to a championship. I could see him being a 2nd option maybe, more likely a 3rd.

Were doing the best we can, but you can't deny were in a terrible position. We probably have the worst outlook of any team in the NBA by far. We probably won't make the playoffs and we don't have our own picks for 3 years. Were stuck.

[Paradise]

No I'm not. But if we were able to draft a superstar it would take that long to find him and for him to become a top flight NBA player. Why is it that every strategy which amounts to rebuilding has to emulate the Sixers?

It doesn't. And I didn't say rebuild. I said competing for a championship in 5-7 years.

You said start building through the draft for the next 5-7 years to see where it gets us. No NBA franchise has done that as a set plan except for Philadelphia. If you're a franchise still rebuilding 5 years later usually that means the plan isn't working properly. Case and Point: Sacramento and Minnesota.

[Hello Brooklyn]

No I'm not. But if we were able to draft a superstar it would take that long to find him and for him to become a top flight NBA player. Why is it that every strategy which amounts to rebuilding has to emulate the Sixers?

It doesn't. And I didn't say rebuild. I said competing for a championship in 5-7 years.

You said start building through the draft for the next 5-7 years to see where it gets us. No NBA franchise has done that as a set plan except for Philadelphia. If you're a franchise still rebuilding 5 years later usually that means the plan isn't working properly. Case and Point: Sacramento and Minnesota.

Building for 5-7 years and seeing where it gets us of in terms of being a contender. Thats what I meant.

[MrDollarBills]

That plan doesn't work. It takes luck to draft a superstar, point blank. The sun has to shine right square up this franchise's ass to either have a)a #1 pick and a generational talent being available that year in the draft pool or b) have that kind of talent drop down to you.

Do you even realize that the Nets were fortunate that Brook Lopez even dropped to us at pick 10? He should have been the 4th player off of the board in that draft!

The Warriors were lucky that Curry not only dropped to them, but also rebounded from his earlier ankle issues to become a generational, once in a lifetime PG that is an elite ballhandler and could possibly become the greatest shooter of all time. What your asking for is a flat out blind gamble, that isn't a coherent plan in the slightest.

There is a balance to all of this. You use the draft to acquire talent and develop it, and if you're lucky you might get one of those guys that turn into a superstar. But other than that, you have to build via free agency as well. Leaning too far to either side will get you into a bad spot.

Timing is everything in the draft as well. Unless you can predict that the 2019 draft class is going to be on the level of 1984 or 2003 where you have A tier players that can be seized within the 1-8 range then tank away. But no one can predict that. And then what if you swing and miss? Detroit passed on three STUD A tier players to draft Darko.

By the way, Golden State built their core while not purposely tanking. They didn't attempt to do what Philly is doing to build a team. Guys dropped down to them. Aiming to get the first pick in the draft for the next decade won't result in anything but a toxic environment, stunted player development, and a loss of fan interest. You also take yourselves out of the free agent market.

[Universe]

Do you even realize that the Nets were fortunate that Brook Lopez even dropped to us at pick 10? He should have been the 4th player off of the board in that draft!

This is the scary part. We're lucky we took the BPA then, even though we had Krstic and just drafted bigs before.

[Hello Brooklyn]

That plan doesn't work. It takes luck to draft a superstar, point blank. The sun has to shine right square up this franchise's ass to either have a)a #1 pick and a generational talent being available that year in the draft pool or b) have that kind of talent drop down to you.

Do you even realize that the Nets were fortunate that Brook Lopez even dropped to us at pick 10? He should have been the 4th player off of the board in that draft!

The Warriors were lucky that Curry not only dropped to them, but also rebounded from his earlier ankle issues to become a generational, once in a lifetime PG that is an elite ballhandler and could possibly become the greatest shooter of all time. What your asking for is a flat out blind gamble, that isn't a coherent plan in the slightest.

There is a balance to all of this. You use the draft to acquire talent and develop it, and if you're lucky you might get one of those guys that turn into a superstar. But other than that, you have to build via free agency as well. Leaning too far to either side will get you into a bad spot.

Timing is everything in the draft as well. Unless you can predict that the 2019 draft class is going to be on the level of 1984 or 2003 where you have A tier players that can be seized within the 1-8 range then tank away. But no one can predict that. And then what if you swing and miss? Detroit passed on three STUD A tier players to draft Darko.

By the way, Golden State built their core while not purposely tanking. They didn't attempt to do what Philly is doing to build a team. Guys dropped down to them. Aiming to get the first pick in the draft for the next decade won't result in anything but a toxic environment, stunted player development, and a loss of fan interest. You also take yourselves out of the free agent market.

You keep saying it doesn't work most of the time. Yet your plan doesn't work any of the time. Yes it requires a lot of luck. Yes it is very difficult to do.

But youre not getting it. Theres no other way to do it. And I refuse to plan around something that has virtually no chance of us winning a championship.

I understand that you need free agency and trades. But the foundation of a team has to be built through the draft. And I'm hopeful that the Nets can find that player in a few years.

And for the 63rd time, I'm not advocating tanking. I'm just saying we should rebuild primarily through the draft. There is no alternative.