Does AG at power forward make everything else work?

magickingdom · Post #1 » by **magickingdom** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:40 am

So it seems that we have some good problems. We have good players at all positions it seems. The question seems to be who plays what position and who will come off the bench. So the question is, it seems to me is if AG can play PF does that help with all other positions. I mean Mario can backup at SF, Evans can back up at SG, and we have a back up PG. Now I know that we have other players that we need playing time for and different lineups, playing small, playing big will change things. But if AG can man the PF spot, it seems that the rest of the positions will fall into place and play time will work out better.
The other side of the coin is if he cannot play that position well enough and has to play SF, then we have logjams and playtime becomes and issue. Does this sound right to you all and make sense?

drsd · Post #2 » by **drsd** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:06 am

Orlando looks to play two combo-forwards who routine switch on players: Harris and Gordon. If this is not working out, Harris would be traded, Hezonja would start at SF, and Orlando would acquire a new PF with Gordon as a 6th man. This is how I read the plan.

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ezzzp · Post #3 » by **ezzzp** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:15 pm

drsd wrote:Orlando looks to play two combo-forwards who routine switch on players: Harris and Gordon. If this is not working out, Harris would be traded, Hezonja would start at SF, and Orlando would acquire a new PF with Gordon as a 6th man. This is how I read the plan.

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I'm not so sure Harris would be the one that gets traded.

Harris (23), Oladipo (23), and Vucevic (24) all enter next season of age to get a good picture of what they'll be. If there isn't a unique or clear elite level skill, then efficiency alongside sustainable defense is the determining factor for starters on winning teams. All three have to yet to prove any of that equation.

Vucevic is signed to an incredible contract and has already shown offensive efficiency for two years. The likelihood of a transaction occurring that replaces that is very low. So unless Dedmon explodes this year he has no true rival for his spot and it is very doubtful he is traded.

Harris also just signed a team-freindly contract. With the new cap, its one that proportions out to be a better than solid value contract for a starter or a 6th man. So unless he severely underproduces, the likelihood of him being moved is low.

Oladipo on the other hand is due an extension in Oct 2016. To resign him, the Magic will have to pay him huge money under the new cap. A max deal for him would be twice the amount of Vuc and Harris' contracts. So to me he is the one that has the most to prove.

His first two seasons the team priority was youth development, because of this he was pretty much gifted his role and shot opportunities. But that imperative has changed to winning. This year he has to beat out Fournier and Hezonja - both of whom are more naturally compatible with Payton and Gordon.

This year Fournier is in a contract year and should be healthy... so its not a given that Oladipo can clearly top Evan's efficiency, passing and ability to space the floor. Hezonja is bigger, stronger and a natural wing with potential to be an above average two way player. So while he has yet to prove anything, his presence on the roster means Oladipo's bar will be set high.

Oladipo has to show he won't be just be slightly better - he has to be way better to earn the huge pay raise coming. This to me makes him at minimum as tradable as Harris, if not more.

Max Power · Post #4 » by **Max Power** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:58 pm

I do agree that the pressure is going to be on Victor. He's the face of the team right now, so if anyone on this roster is looked at as the lead dog, it's him. 18, 4, and 4 last season was a nice improvement from his rookie year. This season a more efficient player with a 20 ppg 5 assist, 5 rebound average is probably essential for the Magic to improve where they're hoping.

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Skin · Post #5 » by **Skin** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:35 pm

What is Gordon's current weight? Anyone know? ESPN has him at 220 pounds. Tracy McGrady weighed more than that.

ezzzp · Post #6 » by **ezzzp** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:10 pm

Every site I've seen says he's 220 and hasn't changed since draft combine...making him 20-30lbs too light for a traditional NBA PF. He might have gained some weight but at end of season he still looked pretty lean.

Skiles and Gordon have both stated he could play both forward positions, but that doesn't really mean anything. In the end Skiles (as most coaches would) will start the 5 best players regardless of position.

Post #7 » by **UCFJayBird** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:17 pm

Player weights are so rarely updated after they enter the league. Maybe when they change teams but usually not even then. Only one I remember for sure is Shaq

OrlDave · Post #8 » by **OrlDave** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:47 pm

ezzzp wrote:Every site I've seen says he's 220 and hasn't changed since draft combine...making him 20-30lbs too light for a traditional NBA PF. He might have gained some weight but at end of season he still looked pretty lean.

Skiles and Gordon have both stated he could play both forward positions, but that doesn't really mean anything. In the end Skiles (as most coaches would) will start the 5 best players regardless of position.

They rarely change. You can't trust those measurements once they are a few months old. He seemed a lot bigger in SL though.

ivDT · Post #9 » by **ivDT** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:58 am

magickingdom wrote:...I mean Mario can backup at SF, Evans can back up at SG, and we have a back up PG...

none of these things would change with aaron at the 3.

...Now I know that we have other players that we need playing time for and different lineups, playing small, playing big will change things. But if AG can man the PF spot, it seems that the rest of the positions will fall into place and play time will work out better...

how? what changes if aaron can't play the 4?

...The other side of the coin is if he cannot play that position well enough and has to play SF, then we have logjams and playtime becomes and issue...

never mind that aaron might have to play the 3 because he eventually proves to be our best two-way player at the position, how well he plays at the 4 notwithstanding. how would we have logjams and playing time issues with aaron at small forward?

obviously, nothing would change in the backcourt. the backup forwards with aaron at the 3 would still be the same with aaron at the 4.

what am i missing here?

...Does this sound right to you all and make sense?

no and nope.

MagicFan32 · Post #10 » by **MagicFan32** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:44 am

it doesn't matter...you can interchange tobes and gordon at the 3 and 4 depending on matchups

drsd · Post #11 » by **drsd** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:55 am

ezzzp wrote:I'm not so sure Harris would be the one that gets.

You might be implying that Payton/Hezonja/Harris/XYZ/Vučević is the starting five of the future. If you are correct, who Mr. XYZ is becomes the grand challenge for GM Hennigan. Is it Gordon, and if not, then is Oladipo the trade chip that brings in the PF of the future?

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fendilim · Post #12 » by **fendilim** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:36 am

... but AG Is a Small Forward. :lol:

ezzzp · Post #13 » by **ezzzp** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:00 pm

drsd wrote:
ezzzp wrote:I'm not so sure Harris would be the one that gets.

You might be implying that Payton/Hezonja/Harris/XYZ/Vučević is the starting five of the future. If you are correct, who Mr. XYZ is becomes the grand challenge for GM Hennigan. Is it Gordon, and if not, then is Oladipo the trade chip that brings in the PF of the future?

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I guess I'm saying that outside of Payton and Vucevic, everyone else on the team is still pretty vulnerable to trade, not just Tobias...and Oladipo's situation will be particularly unstable in a little over a year.

Oladipo will be eligible for a max extension that will be more than double of what Vuc's contract is. Add Hezonja and Fournier into the mix + the fact that Payton benefits greatly from having a floor spreading guard that doesn't require the ball next to him...well to me that creates enough conditions for Oladipo to be at least as vulnerable for a trade as Harris is.

I have flip flopped on Gordon as SF or PF, my gut says he's a SF but that doesn't mean crp - and there just isn't enough info to arrive at any conclusion. To me his talent is undeniable, in a year his defense and versatility alone keeps him a starter regardless of position...the roster will have to adapt to him.

BadMofoPimp · Post #14 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:47 pm

AG will be a Power Forward in the end. I expect more PF minutes out of AG than SF minutes this season in his development.

Post #15 » by **SD2042** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:05 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:AG will be a Power Forward in the end. I expect more PF minutes out of AG than SF minutes this season in his development.

I've been thinking that's the best scenario for AG as to me he has the potential in terms of physique and strength to develop into a seasoned PF in the league. He will have to develop his potential along with better offensive skill sets to further his improvement as his career continues forward.

ivDT · Post #16 » by **ivDT** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:22 am

and a bad thread just got worse...

ogmagicfan · Post #17 » by **ogmagicfan** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:51 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:AG will be a Power Forward in the end. I expect more PF minutes out of AG than SF minutes this season in his development.

Agreed, I think it would be a better compliment having a potential great defender in Aaron Gordan next to Vuc.

On top of that Gordan might still be growing (in terms of height). Regardless though, the NBA is getting smaller at the 4 position and Gordon is prime to step in and be a Draymond Green esque player on the team.

Also, Gordon gained 10 pounds from last season and was supposedly between 230-235 during SL.

Magicman125 · Post #18 » by **Magicman125** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:59 pm

fendilim wrote:... but AG Is a Small Forward.

He sure looked like one in Summer League, but also wasn't afraid to go down-low and fight for boards. He showed the ability to play both positions (at least against lesser competition). We'll see if it translates in regular season production.

I think the 3/4 rotation will look something like.

Harris (20)/Hezonja (16)/Gordon (12)
Gordon (18)/Frye (18)/Harris (12)

Frye gets mitigated to an offensive spark plug to help floor spacing in the second unit and will be relegated to mostly being matched up against backup 4s, Harris and Gordon get time at both positions somewhat equally and still averaging 30+ mpg.

Hezonja gets a plurality of his minutes at the 3, but will also get supplemented with spot minutes at the 2, battling Fournier for a larger bench role. (ability to go from ~15 min - ~26 min depending on who gives more valuable contribution at the backup 2 spot)

yoyojw17 · Post #19 » by **yoyojw17** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:10 pm

ogmagicfan wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:AG will be a Power Forward in the end. I expect more PF minutes out of AG than SF minutes this season in his development.

Agreed, I think it would be a better compliment having a potential great defender in Aaron Gordan next to Vuc.

On top of that Gordan might still be growing (in terms of height). Regardless though, the NBA is getting smaller at the 4 position and Gordon is prime to step in and be a Draymond Green esque player on the team.

Also, Gordon gained 10 pounds from last season and was supposedly between 230-235 during SL.

Damn.... where did you get that information about his weight? that's what i was hoping to see from him. He's always been strong for his size and with that extra bulk i think he will be great holding his own at the PF position. And if that is the case... it begins to solidify his potential and capability as a pf.... as he played 2/3 of the season at that position at 220lb.

Both him and Tobias will man the position depending on the matchup... with Gordon probably taking the tougher defensive assignment on a nightly basis between the 3 and 4.

he would be a dynamic option at that position especially after the confidence boost seen in SL! Just gotta hope that he gets his calories in and workout on as he recovers from his surgery.

The future is bright for that kid.... Talent + Hunger can go a long way!

BadMofoPimp · Post #20 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:12 pm

SD2042 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:AG will be a Power Forward in the end. I expect more PF minutes out of AG than SF minutes this season in his development.

I've been thinking that's the best scenario for AG as to me he has the potential in terms of physique and strength to develop into a seasoned PF in the league. He will have to develop his potential along with better offensive skill sets to further his improvement as his career continues forward.

This is probably why it is important that he does spend time at the SF position early on so that he has more opportunities to develop offensively.