Greatest Blazers Ever: Vote for #3: Brandon Roy vs. Maurice Lucas runoff

Fitz303 · Post #61 » by **Fitz303** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:56 pm

I guess this all obviously depends on what you value most. Best overall player in his prime? Longest tenure? Championships won?

Lucas was a fairly inefficient player for his position. However, Lucas helped bring a championship to Portland. If we're going for who was the best, in their prime, I think Roy is the guy. Though, just based off of prime stats, and the fact that he twice went to the finals, Porter makes a very strong case (efficient scorer, good distributor, and helped lead a team to the finals).

In the end, my vote goes to ROY. He played with Portland just as long as Lucas, and carried a team far less talented than Lucas' or Porter's teams. Put Terry Porter or Mo Lucas on a team with Martell Webster, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake, LaMarcus Aldridge (before he had established himself), and Joel Przybilla, and let see if they sniff 54 wins. I doubt it. Roy had the highest peak PER out of any of them, and carried the least talented team out of any of them, to the most wins this franchise had seen in about 10 years. Never made it out of the first round, but I put that more on bad match ups, less talent, and mediocre coaching, more than I put that on Roy. He dropped 52 in a game, generated some of the best clutch moments in franchise history, and did it with class the entire time. Shortened career or not, he is top 3 in my book.

Post #62 » by **Quotatious** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:46 pm

Run-off vote: Brandon Roy

Roy played a bit longer for the Blazers than Lucas, and I think his peak (2009) was a bit better. Roy was easily a top 10 player in the league in '09 (he has an argument for as high as #6, in my opinion), how he was able to lead that McMillan led team to the best offense in the league and own the Artest/Battier duo of elite perimeter defenders in the playoffs was amazing.

One of my favorite players ever.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61dRAp0voaM[/youtube]

Enjoy.

Lucas was an extremely important part of the '77 championship team, 20/10 bigman with very solid defense, perfect complement to Walton, but not quite as great of a player as Roy was at his peak.

Run PDX · Post #63 » by **Run PDX** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:00 pm

LUKE.

For as much as I hate to look up stats, I felt like it was important to point out that...

In the 76-77 NBA Playoffs, Maurice Lucas averaged 17 points, 12 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, and 4 assists.

He averaged 20 points, 11 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, and 4 assists in the regular season that year.

In his whole time in Portland, he averaged 19 points, 10 rebounds, 1 rebound, 1 block, and 3 assists (not counting the "legacy year" he had in ''87-88).

Beyond that, the Blazers won a Championship in his first season here, made it out of the first round in his second season here, and made it to the playoffs his third year here (without Walton).

If our owner and management weren't so cheap in 1980, then we would have kept Lucas under contract for at least three to four more years - or, perhaps for the rest of his career.

Brandon Roy will always hold a special place in Blazer fans hearts. And, his name should appear on this list in the coming days. But, my vote has to go to Maurice Lucas.

TheEnforcer20 · Post #64 » by **TheEnforcer20** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:03 pm

Maurice Lucas No Lucas, no championship, he was that important. Roy was a great player for the Blazers and certainly deserves a spot on the list of greats.

zzaj · Post #65 » by **zzaj** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:15 pm

Brandon Roy

For runoff vote...

PDX MM · Post #66 » by **PDX MM** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:19 pm

Maurice Lucas run off vote

Masterfully · Post #67 » by **Masterfully** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:29 pm

Since I'm still not sure if my vote on the last page counted...

Brandon Roy for the run off

Post #68 » by **DaVoiceMaster** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:06 pm

Am I supposed to vote again or my vote for Porter still stands? Terry Porter is the man! Nuff' said

d-train · Post #69 » by **d-train** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:20 pm

Since the runoff is between Roy and Lucas, I feel that eliminates the longevity argument against Roy. The whole reason Lucas is being considered this high as a best ever Blazer is because of his (#2 star) role on a championship caliber team. The 70's Blazers team was only a championship caliber team for 1.5 years while Walton was healthy. Afterwards, Lucas was just a good player on at best a mediocre team. Roy was a best in the league superstar for 2.5 years.

d-train · Post #70 » by **d-train** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:23 pm

DaVoiceMaster wrote:Am I supposed to vote again or my vote for Porter still stands? Terry Porter is the man! Nuff' said

I think you should vote for me if you want to vote for someone not in the running.

Run PDX · Post #71 » by **Run PDX** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:42 pm

We need to take off our rose tinted glasses. Brandon Roy was a respected, and respectable, player - but by no means was he a superstar. Superstars are considered the top (or second best, at worst) at their position, they start all star games, and they are featured in advertisements. Brandon Roy was on his way to being that type of player, but he never quite reached that level.

Kobe was the best SG during that period of time
Wade was the second best SG during that period of time
Ray Allen was still up there in importance at the SG position
Joe Johnson was up there in significance at the SG position

I'd say that Roy is in the top 5 at his position at the time, but I have a hard time saying he was a sure thing to be in the Top 3 SGs of his era.

Masterfully · Post #72 » by **Masterfully** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:52 pm

Run PDX wrote:We need to take off our rose tinted glasses. Brandon Roy was a respected, and respectable, player - but by no means was he a superstar. Superstars are considered the top (or second best, at worst) at their position, they start all star games, and they are featured in advertisements. Brandon Roy was on his way to being that type of player, but he never quite reached that level.

Kobe was the best SG during that period of time
Wade was the second best SG during that period of time
Ray Allen was still up there in importance at the SG position
Joe Johnson was up there in significance at the SG position

I'd say that Roy is in the top 5 at his position at the time, but I have a hard time saying he was a sure thing to be in the Top 3 SGs of his era.

Since this is between Roy and Mo I'll mention that Roy made an All NBA team twice as many times as Mo. Definitely a superstar by modern standards.

d-train · Post #73 » by **d-train** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:54 pm

Run PDX wrote:We need to take off our rose tinted glasses. Brandon Roy was a respected, and respectable, player - but by no means was he a superstar. Superstars are considered the top (or second best, at worst) at their position, they start all star games, and they are featured in advertisements. Brandon Roy was on his way to being that type of player, but he never quite reached that level.

Kobe was the best SG during that period of time
Wade was the second best SG during that period of time
Ray Allen was still up there in importance at the SG position
Joe Johnson was up there in significance at the SG position

I'd say that Roy is in the top 5 at his position at the time, but I have a hard time saying he was a sure thing to be in the Top 3 SGs of his era.

Roy was between a top 5-10 player at any position when he was healthy. Players that had to defend Roy said he was the toughest cover in the NBA.

Brandon-Clyde · Post #74 » by **Brandon-Clyde** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:00 pm

For the runoff Brandon Roy Higher individual peak than Lucas

Run PDX · Post #75 » by **Run PDX** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:16 pm

d-train wrote:
Run PDX wrote:Roy was between a top 5-10 player at any position when he was healthy. Players that had to defend Roy said he was the toughest cover in the NBA.

We never got out of the first round with Roy.
And, if we're going to play the "what if game" of saying that he was injured and his career was cut short, then we'll need to do the same for Greg Oden and Sam Bowie. I don't want to seem cruel and negative here, but if we're going to give Brandon any more credit than he deserves, then we'll need to do the same thing for every player who was on the bench for a couple of all star games and who never got out of the first round because of injuries.
Lucas #3
Porter #4
Then, we can start talking about Roy vs. Kersey vs. Aldridge vs. Sheed for #5-8.

Wizenheimer · Post #76 » by **Wizenheimer** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:33 pm

I'm a bit confused...what is this "runoff" about?

Fitz303 · Post #77 » by **Fitz303** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:34 pm

Run PDX wrote:
d-train wrote:
Run PDX wrote:Roy was between a top 5-10 player at any position when he was healthy. Players that had to defend Roy said he was the toughest cover in the NBA.

We never got out of the first round with Roy.
And, if we're going to play the "what if game" of saying that he was injured and his career was cut short, then we'll need to do the same for Greg Oden and Sam Bowie. I don't want to seem cruel and negative here, but if we're going to give Brandon any more credit than he deserves, then we'll need to do the same thing for every player who was on the bench for a couple of all star games and who never got out of the first round because of injuries.
Lucas #3
Porter #4
Then, we can start talking about Roy vs. Kersey vs. Aldridge vs. Sheed for #5-8.

You use the "get out of the 1st rd" card with Roy, but let slide that Lucas was second fiddle to the greatest Blazer of all time when he made it out of the 1st rd. He was basically Aldridge to Walton's Roy.

In Lucas' 3 full seasons with the Blazers (not counting his legacy season at age 35), Lucas only ever won a playoff series in 1977, when Bill Walton was playing like one of the leagues all time greats. That's not to say that Lucas wasn't great, but lets not act like he carried the team. Bill Walton was the man on that team. Brandon Roy wasn't afforded that luxury. That doesn't make him any less great as Blazer. He was simply a better player than Lucas.

d-train · Post #78 » by **d-train** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:34 pm

Michael Jordan lost in the 1st round 3 times with better teams than Roy had. Kobe lost 2 times in the 1st round and once didn't even make it into the playoffs with better teams than Roy had.

Your problem isn't negativity. By bringing Oden and Bowie into the discussion, you must not understand we are talking about players that proved they were the best in the NBA.

HoopsFanAZ · Post #79 » by **HoopsFanAZ** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:40 pm

Before I voted the first time, I looked at Luke's stats in response to playing alongside the headliner, Bill Walton.
Luke was no sidekick. 1A, 1B.

Maurice Lucas for the title.

Fitz303 · Post #80 » by **Fitz303** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:41 pm

HoopsFanAZ wrote:Before I voted the first time, I looked at Luke's stats in response to playing alongside the headliner, Bill Walton.
Luke was no sidekick. 1A, 1B.

Maurice Lucas for the title.

Just look at team success as soon as Walton was done. Lucas didn't win another playoff series. And not sure how you don't figure that Walton was the clear cut #1 on that team, even if just by looking at stats. In almost every normal and advanced stat, Walton beats Lucas. Outside of Lucas shooting a few more shots, and scoring 1.6 more ppg. Not knocking Lucas, but come on, he was a product of his surrounding. It showed, when he never got close to 20 ppg after his time in Portland (while also with plenty of prime still left in him).