O/T: How do you guys feel about other teams rebuilding process?

[j_n]

I still can't buy into this. Saying there is no way to tell who will reach their potential is telling me that you need to invest more into the mental aspect of scouting. When there are guys like Arturo Galetti out there who can predict Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried woulf be 2 of the best 3 players in their draft while NBA teams let them slip out of the lottery, I don't think it's a crapshoot. I just think it's bad decision making.

1. Faried is not a top 3 player from his draft, hes barely a top 10 player from his draft and you could argue about top 20 when its all said and done, that draft was ridiculously strong and he had Faried at #1.

2. He had Klay and Butler in the late 20s, Tobias, Parsons and Knight in the second round and Vucevic going undrafted.
His lottery list had 6 players out of the NBA plus Norris Cole, the Morris twins and Derrick Williams, but yeah he was right about Kawhi and Kyrie which is the only thing that made sense in his rankings.

[npiper17]

You can diminish a player who was once great in leading a team to the finals over a team who may never go to the finals ever again after he left just because you are still mad at him. But, that doesn't take away the fact that this team did achieve close to greatness during that time.

Lol, wow, you just love to assume things don't you?

Well, I am neither blind nor 'still mad at him (Dwight)' for leaving Orlando. In fact check back through my posts and you'll see I was never mad at him.

I am not diminishing Howard's career. I am stating his achievements in facts rather than the hyperbole you seem to prefer. Dwight has made the Finals once in 11 years - fact. If you're saying Drummond might be 'as good as' Howard one day, then I don't think the Pistons have built the foundations for a championship team.

Instead of insulting, why don't you come up with a convincing argument about how the Pistons have the foundations of a championship team in place?

FYI. Just because a Superstar never wins a ship, does not make him less of a player. In many cases throughout NBA history, a player gets stuck in bad situations or on teams that are mismanaged (see Otis Smith ). Look at Allen Iverson or TMac. Does not winning a Ship or making it deep in the playoffs diminish how good they were as individuals? Sorry, I don't look at it that way.

I am convinced that SVG can win a Ship before Henny can because Stan is better than any coach the Magic can get and a better GM thus far as well.

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

[BadMofoPimp]

Lol, wow, you just love to assume things don't you?

Well, I am neither blind nor 'still mad at him (Dwight)' for leaving Orlando. In fact check back through my posts and you'll see I was never mad at him.

I am not diminishing Howard's career. I am stating his achievements in facts rather than the hyperbole you seem to prefer. Dwight has made the Finals once in 11 years - fact. If you're saying Drummond might be 'as good as' Howard one day, then I don't think the Pistons have built the foundations for a championship team.

Instead of insulting, why don't you come up with a convincing argument about how the Pistons have the foundations of a championship team in place?

FYI. Just because a Superstar never wins a ship, does not make him less of a player. In many cases throughout NBA history, a player gets stuck in bad situations or on teams that are mismanaged (see Otis Smith ). Look at Allen Iverson or TMac. Does not winning a Ship or making it deep in the playoffs diminish how good they were as individuals? Sorry, I don't look at it that way.

I am convinced that SVG can win a Ship before Henny can because Stan is better than any coach the Magic can get and a better GM thus far as well.

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

[npiper17]

FYI. Just because a Superstar never wins a ship, does not make him less of a player. In many cases throughout NBA history, a player gets stuck in bad situations or on teams that are mismanaged (see Otis Smith ). Look at Allen Iverson or TMac. Does not winning a Ship or making it deep in the playoffs diminish how good they were as individuals? Sorry, I don't look at it that way.

I am convinced that SVG can win a Ship before Henny can because Stan is better than any coach the Magic can get and a better GM thus far as well.

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

Ha ha oh I'll be watching. Let me guess, Pistons gonna prove me wrong right?

[Tayswagzzz]

I like the players the Bucks have on paper outside of MCW but I don't think they're "scary". The wolves rebuilding efforts were accelerated when they were basically handed Wiggins and won the lottery this past draft essentially getting back to back #1 picks in strong drafts. Anybody could rebuild under those circumstances. Those are the only two teams that I see as being similar to what Rob is doing. I genuinely like how he's is building this team. I feel like we have a good mix of offense/defense with some versatility.

Exactly. The wolves were given their rebuild.

To me, the way Hennigan has had to rebuild, has taken more skill. We didn't get to trade our star player for a clear #1 pick like Wiggins, we didn't get a #1 pick the following year. The cards seem to have just fallen in the Wolves lap. (Technically they have 3 back-to-back #1 picks if you count Bennet)

Hennigan had to work with the picks he was given #2 (Oladipo should probably have went #1, it's the Cavs tho), #4 #12 (traded for Payton at #10), #5, grab "diamonds in the rough" in Harris, Vucevic, Fournier.

I think he's done a great job with what he's given, people can knock him for hiring JV but JV was the coach to tank to allow us to rebuild, he wasn't in the plans long term.

A clear superstar hasn't emerged for us yet but there's still time left for that to happen, let's see what they can do this season with a new proven coach in Skiles and all this time in the off-season to train.

[BadMofoPimp]

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

Ha ha oh I'll be watching. Let me guess, Pistons gonna prove me wrong right?

Pistons and Magic gonna prove everyone all wrong! Pistons are just gonna do it faster with better coaching and GM'ing!

[Orlwillbeback]

Lol

[Orlwillbeback]

Pistons just paid an average at best point guard reggie jackson like 80 mil. Thats just **** stupid.

[ezzzp]

I think its incredible how the bucks only tanked one season and already better than us last season, have reason to believe theyll be better in the future and have more talent.

I like nearly of the other rebuilds better than ours except for philly and new york.

The Bucks rise to mediocrity began in 2004-05. Before last season they have had only one + .500 season in 10 seasons. If you google "treadmill team" their logo comes up. They have been "rebuilding" for a decade.



Next season the Magic will enter year 4 of a bottom up rebuild after half a decade of winning seasons with .560 winning % being their worst.

[tiderulz]

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

Ha ha oh I'll be watching. Let me guess, Pistons gonna prove me wrong right?

Pistons and Magic gonna prove everyone all wrong! Pistons are just gonna do it faster with better coaching and GM'ing!

why are you on the Magic board and not on the Pistons board?

[jezzer45]

I like gobert but i feel people are putting too much on his defense and ignoring his all around game. To be a superstar he will have to at least sniff at 18-20 ppg in which i doubt he can do. Dwight had multiple seasons of 20-22 ppg along with other wordly defense.

Overall it seems the jazz do have a team that is better than the rest of the rebuilding group.

[BadMofoPimp]

Ha ha oh I'll be watching. Let me guess, Pistons gonna prove me wrong right?

Pistons and Magic gonna prove everyone all wrong! Pistons are just gonna do it faster with better coaching and GM'ing!

why are you on the Magic board and not on the Pistons board?

I been posting on the Magic board since way back when you were still playing with GI Joes!!! Way before the Magic had TMAC, I was here. Where were you? All opposing posters are my guest here. I run RealGM!!!

[KingRobb02]

I still can't buy into this. Saying there is no way to tell who will reach their potential is telling me that you need to invest more into the mental aspect of scouting. When there are guys like Arturo Galetti out there who can predict Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried woulf be 2 of the best 3 players in their draft while NBA teams let them slip out of the lottery, I don't think it's a crapshoot. I just think it's bad decision making.

1. Faried is not a top 3 player from his draft, hes barely a top 10 player from his draft and you could argue about top 20 when its all said and done, that draft was ridiculously strong and he had Faried at #1.

2. He had Klay and Butler in the late 20s, Tobias, Parsons and Knight in the second round and Vucevic going undrafted.
His lottery list had 6 players out of the NBA plus Norris Cole, the Morris twins and Derrick Williams, but yeah he was right about Kawhi and Kyrie which is the only thing that made sense in his rankings.

You're right that his model isn't perfect. But I was trying to show that it's not impossible to guess that these guys would be good. As far as Faried, I can't agree with you on that. As far as NBA success, I have Faried after Leonard and Irving and Butler. But that's not your point. You wanted to say there is fault in the model and I agree. I just don't think people should throw their hands up and say the draft is a crapshoot. There is a method to identifying these guys.

[ezzzp]

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

I hope you're not talking about SVG's actions in Detroit.

As a coach leading a much more mature and deeper team than Magic he won 32 games ...seven more games than a tanking team led by Jacques Vaughn.

As gm/president: SVG chose to not trade Josh Smith over the summer when he had the opportunity to get a return asset. That led to Monroe warning that he would take QO, SVG ignored it and now Monroe plays for a division rival...and that Josh Smith contract is on the books until 2020. That is two valuable assets that he lost for absolutely nothing, zero,nil, nada.


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/23/7440335/stan-van-gundy-josh-smith-pistons-hubris



...the signing for 5/$80m of Reggie Jackson, a guard that can't hit the three and is a mediocre at best defender?...I guess under the new cap its not terrible but its not good either. The Ilyasova move wasn't bad...so maybe he's listening to Bower now.

[OrlChamps2030]

I think its incredible how the bucks only tanked one season and already better than us last season, have reason to believe theyll be better in the future and have more talent.

I like nearly of the other rebuilds better than ours except for philly and new york.

The Bucks rise to mediocrity began in 2004-05. Before last season they have had only one + .500 season in 10 seasons. If you google "treadmill team" their logo comes up. They have been "rebuilding" for a decade.



Next season the Magic will enter year 4 of a bottom up rebuild after half a decade of winning seasons with .560 winning % being their worst.

Since when is treadmilling considered rebuilding?

[npiper17]

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

I hope you're not talking about SVG's actions in Detroit.

As a coach leading a much more mature and deeper team than Magic he won 32 games ...seven more games than a tanking team led by Jacques Vaughn.

As gm/president: SVG chose to not trade Josh Smith over the summer when he had the opportunity to get a return asset. That led to Monroe warning that he would take QO, SVG ignored it and now Monroe plays for a division rival...and that Josh Smith contract is on the books until 2020. That is two valuable assets that he lost for absolutely nothing, zero,nil, nada.


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/23/7440335/stan-van-gundy-josh-smith-pistons-hubris



...the signing for 5/$80m of Reggie Jackson, a guard that can't hit the three and is a mediocre at best defender?...I guess under the new cap its not terrible but its not good either. The Ilyasova move wasn't bad...so maybe he's listening to Bower now.

Just stop it with your well thought out and reasoned argument. No place for that sort of thing here!

[ezzzp]

I think its incredible how the bucks only tanked one season and already better than us last season, have reason to believe theyll be better in the future and have more talent.

I like nearly of the other rebuilds better than ours except for philly and new york.

The Bucks rise to mediocrity began in 2004-05. Before last season they have had only one + .500 season in 10 seasons. If you google "treadmill team" their logo comes up. They have been "rebuilding" for a decade.



Next season the Magic will enter year 4 of a bottom up rebuild after half a decade of winning seasons with .560 winning % being their worst.

Since when is treadmilling considered rebuilding?

treadmilling is rebuilding failure...some get caught in the treadmill because of injuries, others draft poorly or unluckily, and some try to skip steps of their rebuild and end up prolonging it

[tiderulz]

Pistons and Magic gonna prove everyone all wrong! Pistons are just gonna do it faster with better coaching and GM'ing!

why are you on the Magic board and not on the Pistons board?

I been posting on the Magic board since way back when you were still playing with GI Joes!!! Way before the Magic had TMAC, I was here. Where were you? All opposing posters are my guest here. I run RealGM!!!

some of us might not be as young as you think we are. I was living in Orlando way after college, back in the pre-Tmac days also.

I come here to talk Magic ball, not see you constantly pump the Pistons.

[tiderulz]

Okay I'll try one last time. I'm not getting into a debate about the status of Dwight Howard. You stated the Pistons have built a championship winning foundation, so make your argument.

Please tell me how the Pistons have the foundation of a championship winning team?

And whilst you're at it, please tell me exactly what Stan has done to be crowned as a better GM thus far than Rob?

I will let actions explain better than words. Just watch the upcoming season.

I hope you're not talking about SVG's actions in Detroit.

As a coach leading a much more mature and deeper team than Magic he won 32 games ...seven more games than a tanking team led by Jacques Vaughn.

As gm/president: SVG chose to not trade Josh Smith over the summer when he had the opportunity to get a return asset. That led to Monroe warning that he would take QO, SVG ignored it and now Monroe plays for a division rival...and that Josh Smith contract is on the books until 2020. That is two valuable assets that he lost for absolutely nothing, zero,nil, nada.


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/23/7440335/stan-van-gundy-josh-smith-pistons-hubris



...the signing for 5/$80m of Reggie Jackson, a guard that can't hit the three and is a mediocre at best defender?...I guess under the new cap its not terrible but its not good either. The Ilyasova move wasn't bad...so maybe he's listening to Bower now.

you just made his list

[SD2042]

As for rebuilding teams:

I think Milwaukee and Utah will be forces to be reckon with in the upcoming season. Milwaukee though took an extreme long time to get their stuff together. Their young core has a lot of potential to be in the top four of the playoff race this upcoming season with their coach Jason Kidd leading the way. Utah is on the rise as well with the run they went on after the all-star break this past season. Their defensive methods will make it difficult for squads to just score on them at will like seasons past. With teams like Portland and potentially Dallas to step back in the intense Western Conference, I look for the Jazz to challenge for the 5th to 8th spots for the playoffs in the upcoming season.

Teams like PHX and Boston for some reason are stuck in the middle meaning it appears they can't decide whether to rebuild or hit lightning in a bottle. Either way, both teams are too much of a mixed bag for me to take them seriously.

Denver is doing similar to what the Magic are currently doing, but at the beginning stages. With Ty Lawson moving on to the Rockets, the move opens the door for Emmanuel Mudiay to be the future PG for the Nuggets.