PHX/OKC

[SideSwipe]

I agree that OKC may not do it do to circumstances, but that value is pretty solid. Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin and 2 picks is probably even more than the type of package OKC would likely get if Ibaka were on the move. Also Ibaka's role is likley headed down a little with Kanter on board long-term. One of those players is not going to be happy. With all that said, I do not think Ibaka is a good target for PHX right now due to his offensive limitations. With Chandler in place we are going to be pretty solid defensively on the front line. I would prefer to target more dynamic scoring from the 4 spot, I think if we are sending out those assets.

[Saberestar]

Yeah no chance OKC even considers this for a second.

This. No way OKC trades Ibaka for that package.

[HartfordWhalers]

I agree that OKC may not do it do to circumstances, but that value is pretty solid. Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin and 2 picks is probably even more than the type of package OKC would likely get if Ibaka were on the move. Also Ibaka's role is likley headed down a little with Kanter on board long-term. One of those players is not going to be happy. With all that said, I do not think Ibaka is a good target for PHX right now due to his offensive limitations. With Chandler in place we are going to be pretty solid defensively on the front line. I would prefer to target more dynamic scoring from the 4 spot, I think if we are sending out those assets.

I really doubt that, especially considering how late the CLe pick will be.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I agree that OKC may not do it do to circumstances, but that value is pretty solid. Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin and 2 picks is probably even more than the type of package OKC would likely get if Ibaka were on the move. Also Ibaka's role is likley headed down a little with Kanter on board long-term. One of those players is not going to be happy. With all that said, I do not think Ibaka is a good target for PHX right now due to his offensive limitations. With Chandler in place we are going to be pretty solid defensively on the front line. I would prefer to target more dynamic scoring from the 4 spot, I think if we are sending out those assets.

No dude, you're way off base. Ibaka would be the best player on your team. Maybe 2nd depending on how you feel about Bledsoe.

[Texas Chuck]

Tap the brakes. Unique and great aren't the same thing. He's not top 20 guy or a guy you build around. He's a 3D player on steroids, an ultimate role player. But he's not star or a centerpiece.

He has two years until becoming unrestricted. Morris has four, Tucker two, Goodwin two and then under control, as well as a late and a mid to higher first. To say that doesn't compare to two years of Ibaka is silly.

You are badly underestimating just how valuable Ibaka is. Especially considering factors like his bargain contract, his added 3-pt range. That package isn't even close for Ibaka. Tucker, Goodwin, and the picks don't have nearly the value you are ascribing to them. Certainly not nearly enough to turn a far worse player facing felony charges and maybe way less effective without his brother around into Ibaka.

Ibaka is very very valuable. Very valuable.

[bondom34]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

The pieces offered together to
OKC do not combine to equal the value of Ibaka. Not even close. It's not fine for OKC.

Tap the brakes. Unique and great aren't the same thing. He's not top 20 guy or a guy you build around. He's a 3D player on steroids, an ultimate role player. But he's not star or a centerpiece.

He has two years until becoming unrestricted. Morris has four, Tucker two, Goodwin two and then under control, as well as a late and a mid to higher first. To say that doesn't compare to two years of Ibaka is silly.

Morris is also possibly going to trial with his brother. 2 mid firsts and Goodwin who's nothing too special. You've been showing this against certain players and I haven't figured out why, but if you really think this is Ibaka's value you're massively off base. He puts up better offensive numbers than a guy like Drummond for example, has fantastic defensive metrics, is only 4 years older (not even in his prime yet) and on a better contract than most 4s in the league. Dude, you're off here. You're both overrating Morris and underrating Ibaka and I haven't said it til now but you're just massively off.

If you're looking at contracts, Chris Paul has 2 more guaranteed years and an ETO, but he's still more valuable than a guy like Brandon Knight or Reggie Jackson. A top tier player on a cheaper deal w 2 years is massively better than a run of the mill guy with a couple extra years.

[bondom34]

I agree that OKC may not do it do to circumstances, but that value is pretty solid. Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin and 2 picks is probably even more than the type of package OKC would likely get if Ibaka were on the move. Also Ibaka's role is likley headed down a little with Kanter on board long-term. One of those players is not going to be happy. With all that said, I do not think Ibaka is a good target for PHX right now due to his offensive limitations. With Chandler in place we are going to be pretty solid defensively on the front line. I would prefer to target more dynamic scoring from the 4 spot, I think if we are sending out those assets.

And I don't think you're gonna be seeing Ibaka's role get LESS important with Kanter....

[suns91fan]

I agree that OKC may not do it do to circumstances, but that value is pretty solid. Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin and 2 picks is probably even more than the type of package OKC would likely get if Ibaka were on the move. Also Ibaka's role is likley headed down a little with Kanter on board long-term. One of those players is not going to be happy. With all that said, I do not think Ibaka is a good target for PHX right now due to his offensive limitations. With Chandler in place we are going to be pretty solid defensively on the front line. I would prefer to target more dynamic scoring from the 4 spot, I think if we are sending out those assets.

No dude, your way off base. Ibaka would be the best player on your team. Maybe 2nd depending on how you feel about Bledsoe.

I don't think Ibaka would be as good on the Suns, as he is on the Thunder. His defense would translate nicely, but offense... I don't know. If i am not mistaken, 80% of his shots are assisted, which suggest his offense is as good as the team around him. Without players like Durant and Westbrook, he would likely struggle offensively, and that's exactly the situation he would find himself into, if he was on the Suns team. Last season without Durant, his efficiency dropped compared to the season before. Therefore, i also see him as an ultimate role player. Which is not bad at all, as he is probably one of the best possible players OKC could have, to play behind Durant and Westbrook.

[bondom34]

I agree that OKC may not do it do to circumstances, but that value is pretty solid. Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin and 2 picks is probably even more than the type of package OKC would likely get if Ibaka were on the move. Also Ibaka's role is likley headed down a little with Kanter on board long-term. One of those players is not going to be happy. With all that said, I do not think Ibaka is a good target for PHX right now due to his offensive limitations. With Chandler in place we are going to be pretty solid defensively on the front line. I would prefer to target more dynamic scoring from the 4 spot, I think if we are sending out those assets.

No dude, your way off base. Ibaka would be the best player on your team. Maybe 2nd depending on how you feel about Bledsoe.

I don't think Ibaka would be as good on the Suns, as he is on the Thunder. His defense would translate nicely, but offense... I don't know. If i am not mistaken, 80% of his shots are assisted, which suggest his offense is as good as the team around him. Without players like Durant and Westbrook, he would likely struggle offensively, and that's exactly the situation he would find himself into, if he was on the Suns team. Last season without Durant, his efficiency dropped compared to the season before. Therefore, i also see him as an ultimate role player. Which is not bad at all, as he is probably one of the best possible players OKC could have, to play behind Durant and Westbrook.

But in that case, its still a lowball offer. He'd still be better than Morris either way even if he was just on defense, and Morris isn't creating a ton. Ibaka is assisted on about 72.7 percent of his shots, Morris on about 55.3. So neither create much of anything, and Serge can shoot the 3 better. He's miles better defensively, and was playing a bit hurt most of the season.

[suns91fan]

No dude, your way off base. Ibaka would be the best player on your team. Maybe 2nd depending on how you feel about Bledsoe.

I don't think Ibaka would be as good on the Suns, as he is on the Thunder. His defense would translate nicely, but offense... I don't know. If i am not mistaken, 80% of his shots are assisted, which suggest his offense is as good as the team around him. Without players like Durant and Westbrook, he would likely struggle offensively, and that's exactly the situation he would find himself into, if he was on the Suns team. Last season without Durant, his efficiency dropped compared to the season before. Therefore, i also see him as an ultimate role player. Which is not bad at all, as he is probably one of the best possible players OKC could have, to play behind Durant and Westbrook.

But in that case, its still a lowball offer. He'd still be better than Morris either way even if he was just on defense, and Morris isn't creating a ton. Ibaka is assisted on about 72.7 percent of his shots, Morris on about 55.3. So neither create much of anything, and Serge can shoot the 3 better. He's miles better defensively, and was playing a bit hurt most of the season.

Nah, i wasn't discussing the offer. Was just discussing the impact Ibaka would make on the Suns team. Also, Markeiff's 55.3% assisted shots is actually very good. I watched him all season, and he can create for himself if needed.

[bondom34]

I don't think Ibaka would be as good on the Suns, as he is on the Thunder. His defense would translate nicely, but offense... I don't know. If i am not mistaken, 80% of his shots are assisted, which suggest his offense is as good as the team around him. Without players like Durant and Westbrook, he would likely struggle offensively, and that's exactly the situation he would find himself into, if he was on the Suns team. Last season without Durant, his efficiency dropped compared to the season before. Therefore, i also see him as an ultimate role player. Which is not bad at all, as he is probably one of the best possible players OKC could have, to play behind Durant and Westbrook.

But in that case, its still a lowball offer. He'd still be better than Morris either way even if he was just on defense, and Morris isn't creating a ton. Ibaka is assisted on about 72.7 percent of his shots, Morris on about 55.3. So neither create much of anything, and Serge can shoot the 3 better. He's miles better defensively, and was playing a bit hurt most of the season.

Nah, i wasn't discussing the offer. Was just discussing the impact Ibaka would make on the Suns team. Also, Markeiff's 55.3% assisted shots is actually very good. I watched him all season, and he can create for himself if needed.

FWIW, Ibaka's getting there, he can dribble drive, but the offense never has him do much other than spot up or occasionally post up. If asked to do more he can handle it, he just rarely was, and was hurt some this season.

[NashtyNas]

Don't know why this is even being discussed - OKC isn't moving Ibaka for this type of package. Only way they consider moving him is if he demands a trade (or Russ/KD want him out) or they are packaging him with other pieces to get an upgrade somewhere, which is almost impossible because he's a near perfect fit and all their other positions are filled with adequate role players.

[SideSwipe]

As I said, if he gets moved it would be for a package like this or to some other team in the league for similar value to this. Let's please review trades that include 2 starters a prospect and 2 picks for 1 player. Lets take a look at the history books and see how many there have been.

I would not do this as PHX. Last year I would have looked at it, but Ibaka will not bring what we need, where we need it. We have filled some of the holes we had. Markieff scores better than Ibaka already and doesn't rebound much worse either. In RPM they are rated 8th and 9th respectively (pf's), with Ibaka being .5 points ahead of Kieff defensively. It's just one measure, but the point is, I don't think that to improve marginally defensively is worth degrading marginally offensively, when front court scoring is what we need. Kieff creates his own shot, which is not a strength of Ibaka's. Ibaka hits the three at a better clip, and defends better.

Not taking away from Ibaka, he's a guy I like a lot, but given where the Suns are and the asking price in the OP, I would stay away.

[bondom34]

I got nothing. Just wow.

[Mr-Al]

Morris isn't creating a ton. Ibaka is assisted on about 72.7 percent of his shots, Morris on about 55.3

this is nitpicking and more of a side note but that's a pretty big difference, most forwards are in the 60's and one of Morris' best traits is actually creating/getting his own bucket

this also isn't that relevant but Morris was statistically the second best mid-range shooter in league last season behind Chris Paul (I think like 10-16 feet) and on a huge volume. He creates that shot in his sleep

[Worm122]

I would do it in the next if Durant leave the Thunder and the Suns would include one more first round pick, in the current season i would not do it i hope Ibaka does not get hurt in the playoffs again

[bondom34]

Morris isn't creating a ton. Ibaka is assisted on about 72.7 percent of his shots, Morris on about 55.3

this is nitpicking and more of a side note but that's a pretty big difference, most forwards are in the 60's and one of Morris' best traits is actually creating/getting his own bucket

this also isn't that relevant but Morris was statistically the second best mid-range shooter in league last season behind Chris Paul (I think like 10-16 feet) and on a huge volume. He creates that shot in his sleep

Fair enough. The value of the trade is still awful, but good info.

[KuruptedCav]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

I'd agree that the parts are 1/10th of the value and that the OP is asking the Thunder to take 60 cents on the dollar for Ibaka with no explanation.

Getting into semantics doesn't increase the value of the poo poo platter offered by the Suns.

[Laimbeer]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

I'd agree that the parts are 1/10th of the value and that the OP is asking the Thunder to take 60 cents on the dollar for Ibaka with no explanation.

Getting into semantics doesn't increase the value of the poo poo platter offered by the Suns.

So Ibaka is worth ten first round picks.

[Scoot McGroot]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

I'd agree that the parts are 1/10th of the value and that the OP is asking the Thunder to take 60 cents on the dollar for Ibaka with no explanation.

Getting into semantics doesn't increase the value of the poo poo platter offered by the Suns.

So Ibaka is worth ten first round picks.

10 #30-ish 1st round picks? Maybe. Yeah.

Or, rather, if you have a really good player, you don't trade him for many pieces that clutter the roster, yet still don't truly impact your team nearly as much as the one really good player. If I have to choose between Ibaka and 4 minimum salary players and Kieff, Goodwin, and 2 1st round picks to fill out my roster, I choose Ibaka and the minimum guys every single time.