All-Time non-All Star peak draft (any interest?)

[Owly]

Any interest in what's described in the title.

Details can be discussed, but I'm thinking:

- Serpentine draft
- NBA only
- selections based on peak - selecting players who were never NBA-All Stars (specifically All-Stars, not any other acolade, even if it's "higher value"; for reference on who counts as having been an all-star see Basketball-Reference)
- maybe appointment or lightning drafting (either you have specific time slot(s) each day, or you have everyone online at one time and draft within 2 minute windows) - so that pace doesn't bog down. Timings would have to be agreed.
- probably not a head-to-head tourney at the end as people lose interest, depending on interest we "pitch" our teams and we rank opponents teams, ask others for reviews. Am open to suggestions here.
- Active players not eligible if drafted after 2005 (it's very rare to make an All-Star debut after over a decade in the league so 2005 and before draftees would be available).
- Rosters maybe 10 deep? (8?)

I'm happy to take part or act as non-participatory commish. Don't have a number of teams in my head.

Any interest or input?


As before with abortive non-500 project ...
Finally, mods, obviously this is ultimately up to you but please don’t put this in fantasy thread, it isn’t fantasy basketball as that term is understood, and this is essentially a player comparison (within the context of teambuilding – as with many of these player comparisons) issue – both the game and any broader discussion of how accolades were distributed.

Occasionally Updated Draft Board
R1 1 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Derek Harper
2 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Arvydas Sabonis
3 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Andrew Bogut
4 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Ron Harper
5 Mirjalovic: 12am - midnight (4am) Drazen Petrovic
6 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Darryl Dawkins [Delayed]
7 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Cedric Maxwell
8 NTB: 6am (10am) Rod Strickland
9 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Marcus Camby
10 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Paul Pressey
11 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Kirk Hinrich
12 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Shane Battier
R2 13 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Lamar Odom
14 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Andre Miller
15 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Boris Diaw
16 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Toni Kukoc
17 Mirjalovic: 12am - midnight (4am) [Missed selection window - attempted to select Odom outside window - resigned]
18 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Roy Tarpley
19 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Brent Barry
20 NTB: 6am (10am) Al Jefferson
21 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Mike Bibby
22 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Hidayet Turkoglu
23 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Jason Terry
24 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) LaPhonso Ellis
R3 25 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Byron Scott
26 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Michael Cooper
27 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Jason Richardson
28 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Josh Smith
29 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Keith Van Horn
30 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Nene
31 NTB: 6am (10am) Raef Lafrentz
32 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Richard Jefferson
33 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Jalen Rose
34 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Mychal Thompson
35 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Monta Ellis
R4 36 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Orlando Woolridge
37 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Robert Horry
38 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Doug Christie
39 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Leandro Barbosa
40 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Kevin Martin
41 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Amir Johnson
42 NTB: 6am (10am) Nick Anderson
43 NTB: 6am (10am) Trevor Ariza
44 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Ben Gordon
45 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) P.J. Brown
46 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Elden Campbell
R5 47 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Tree Rollins
48 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Mike Dunleavy Jr
49 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Dell Curry
50 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Tom Boerwinkle
51 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Tony Allen
52 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Mike James
53 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) J.R. Smith
54 NTB: 6am (10am) Jamal Crawford
55 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Mike Miller
56 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Raja Bell
57 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Troy Murphy
R6 58 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Rony Seikaly
59 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Derek Smith
60 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Shaun Livingston [Delayed]
61 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Anderson Varejao [Delayed]
62 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Kevin Porter [delayed]
63 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Steve Kerr [delayed]
64 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Nick Collison [delayed]
65 NTB: 6am (10am) Emeka Okafor
66 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Donyell Marshall
67 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Swen Nater
68 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Shawn Bradley
R7 69 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Bruce Bowen
70 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Nate McMillan
71 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Kurt Thomas
72 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Mario Elie
73 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) James Posey
74 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Tayshaun Prince
75 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Jose Calderon
76 NTB: 6am (10am) Ersan Illyasova
77 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Sam Perkins
78 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Rodney McCray
79 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Darrell Armstrong
R880 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Jarrett Jack
81 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Marcin Gortat
82 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Craig Hodges
83 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Stephen Jackson
84 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Bobby Jackson
85 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) Rick Mahorn
86 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Channing Frye
87 NTB: 6am (10am) Scott Skiles
88 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
89 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Dennis Scott
90 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Rick Fox
R991 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Craig Ehlo
92 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Charles (Bo) Outlaw
93 LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm) Sarunas Marciulionis
94 Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm) Chuck Person
95 Narigo: 7:30pm (11:30pm) Happy Hairston
96 CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am) K.C. Jones
97 theonlyclutch: 5am (9am) Matt Harpring
98 NTB: 6am (10am) John Salmons
99 JuanCesta: 10.30am (2:30pm) Erick Dampier
100 Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm) Kenny Smith
101 SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm) Derek Anderson
- 102 Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm) Reggie Evans

[Quotatious]

I'd like to participate. Would be fun.

[LA Bird]

I would like to participate as well.

[Dr Spaceman]

I’m in- I see two familiar faces from the last fantasy draft, Q and Owly, and given how that one submarined I think we should have a discussion about how to avoid those specific problems we had. Owly laid out some things that seem to specifically address those concerns, so that’s great. Don’t know how much it had to do with as absent project runner, but I know I was at least a little complicity with the last one failing so I will do my best to avoid that.

Cool idea, sign me up.

[penbeast0]

With school starting up in 2 weeks, that would probably make a time commitment for me right now difficult; otherwise it's one of the more interesting draft proposals I've seen.

Happy to help out in any other way you need though.

[SHAQ32]

Count me in!

[NTB]

Nice idea. I'd like to participate.

[CaliBullsFan]

I'm down

[JuanCesta]

I'm in but make it post 2000

[lorak]

Interesting idea Owly. Count me in.

[Clyde Frazier]

- selections based on peak - selecting players who were never NBA-All Stars (specifically All-Stars, not any other acolade, even if it's "higher value"; for reference on who counts as having been an all-star see Basketball-Reference)

I'd probably be interested, but why would you allow players who made an all NBA team and just happened to never make an AS team? It's very rare that it happens, but an all NBA selection encompasses that of an AS level player, yet more prestigious.

[Owly]

- selections based on peak - selecting players who were never NBA-All Stars (specifically All-Stars, not any other acolade, even if it's "higher value"; for reference on who counts as having been an all-star see Basketball-Reference)

I'd probably be interested, but why would you allow players who made an all NBA team and just happened to never make an AS team? It's very rare that it happens, but an all NBA selection encompasses that of an AS level player, yet more prestigious.

Main reason, for simplicity.

Reason why I explicitly stated it out front - for clarity because you'll get this specific question and if it's said in the first post that you can't and you pick one of those guys, you can't complain when your pick is dropped back two rounds.

And in response to the implied line of the questioning - "these guys, have reached a higher level so why are they available?" - the responses are (1) are they better than all the alternatives (the player I consider the "Best Player Available", for instance, wasn't such an anomoly; more generally, given they've had their entire career to collect a single ASG accolade and they haven't I suspect there isn't massive separation, which isn't to say they shouldn't have been all-star, but there's arguably tonnes of such players who should have been and weren't. I don't think there's that degree of separation from the pack)? (2) if so (and you know who they are) pick them.

I'm in but make it post 2000

No dice on post 2000. It cuts into the player pool too much and whilst that pool of good, available players (player-seasons) is larger than I expected, I don't want to cut it down more before we start. Also everyone else is already bought in based on the assumption of all-time.

You could draft exclusively post 2000; you could even ask for some advantage - getting a pick early or something (which would be subject voting by league members, and tbh I'd guess you'd get a no) - in exchange for so constraining yourself but we've got our player pool. But as I said, everyone else is already in based on all time.

For the moment I'll assume you're in, please confirm or opt out.


So ...
Quotatious
LA Bird
Dr Spaceman
SHAQ32
NTB
CaliBullsFan
JuanCesta (provisionally)
lorak
Clyde Frazier ("probably")

Including "soft" entries we're on 9. I'll see if those answers harden up and if we have any more interest.

In the meantime any preference on "appointment drafting" versus "lighting drafting". As Dr S noted, we don't want the project to disintegrate if people are putting time in.

Pros and Cons for each:
Lightning
Pros
Guarantees a good pace. (e.g. if 12 participants, 3 minute windows, would be done in 36 minutes, or 1h 12m if two rounds a night).

Cons
- Finding a window convenient to everyone might be implausiable (technically people drafting at the end of rounds wouldn't have to be around at the same time as everyone else, if 2 rounds at once this could only happen at one "end" of the draft).

Requires a pre-planned big board when your pick gets taken and you haven't got long to make a decision -- though this rewards planning and makes it like a real draft.

Appointment
Pros
Perhaps more convenient, leisurely for participants if logistically possible.

Cons
Assuming say two day cycle for two rounds, serpentine draft order means people at the end of the rounds will have a consistent time to be on every two days, people exactly in the middle will have a fairly consistent time daily, but other people will have to have alternating times each round. Non-serpentine drafting would solve this, though it pretty well mucks up fairness. A work around for this to have non-serpentine but fair drafting is to have an extra pick in each round which means in the first round the last picker gets two (consecutive) picks, in the 2nd round the penultimate picker gets two picks etc, until everyone has had a bonus pick but the first picker, who then just selects the final player. I'm willing to explain this further or hear alternate suggestions).

I was leaning lightning but since I've come up with a workaround for (fair - I think) appointments I don't really mind.
So I'm asking participants to state a preference and times that they are/will be/would be willing to be - around to make selections.

[JuanCesta]

Owly

I'm IN

[Mirjalovic]

let me in

[theonlyclutch]

Would like to be in if this is still a thing..

[Owly]

Okay want to get this going so am quoting you all to give fair notice ...

...

...

...

Count me in!

Nice idea. I'd like to participate.

I'm down

I'm in but make it post 2000

Interesting idea Owly. Count me in.

...

let me in

Would like to be in if this is still a thing..

With no response regarding timing I think it's most likely "appointment" spots will work easiest, rather than getting everyone on at the same time. Tried to give people the half hour around when they posted, if said spot is crowded tried to check recent activity (but hard to do without spending way to long so ...), feel free to move to an "open" time window of your preference.

Appointment drafting means bonus picks (so in the first round the last picker gets two picks, in the second round the penultimate picker gets two picks, through 10 rounds (we'd have to go 11 deep on our rosters to get it perfectly fair), and the first selector just gets the final pick as the only picker in the 11th round.

So here are your present assigned times - you have at least half an hour from said time, if the following draftee hasn't selected yet you can still draft after that, if they have you have to wait for the next day (and make two picks from that slot).

Times given are EST (then - bracketed as here, GMT or UTC)
Quotatious: 6.00pm (10pm)
LA Bird: 6.30pm (10:30pm)
Dr Spaceman: 7.00pm (11pm)
Mirjalovic: 12am - midnight (4am)
CaliBullsFan: 2.30am (6:30am)
NTB: 4am (8am)
lorak: 4.30am(8:30am)
theonlyclutch: 5am (9am)
JuanCesta: 12.30pm (4:30pm)
Clyde Frazier: 1pm (5pm)
SHAQ32: 2pm (6pm)

Like I say feel free to claim an open timespot, I tried to find spots that seemed like when you might be on but can only spend so much time doing so, so you may find a better spot if available. Time spots available on 1st come 1st served basis. Don't put yourself within less then half an hour of an existing draft spot.

If you're going to be absent and want to keep playing and don't want to miss the pick, make plans e.g. pm your shortlist of players (so if 1st, 2nd choice etc get taken) to the person picking - before and/or after you and perhaps myself too (if you want to be sure you've got someone impartial with your intentions - so we know you didn't really want to take Dickey Simpkins, no matter what the other participant says).

Are people ready/happy/wanting to get going in a days time or so? Or do you want longer to so we can wait to confirm everyone's particiaption and that they're happy with times?

Please post to say you've read, that you're happy with the format, that you're fine with the time-spot given or want to switch and if you want to start very soon or have more time for all to agree. Thanks.

[Narigo]

Sign me up

Edit : is it too late to sign up

[Owly]

Sign me up

Edit : is it too late to sign up

Nope, 12 would make a nice number so we could have 12 man rosters (to fit with drafting system). But claim a time spot (ideally list EST and GMT as with the above).

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm good with starting tomorrow. I thought the lightning was a cool idea, but get why it's impractical. Are people really drafting at 5AM? And is the order posted above the draft order?

[thizznation]

Cool idea. I'll watch and vote on games if you guys need it.